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    Your Elvenar Team

Autumn Zodiac Event Feedback

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Pheryll

Set Designer
Yeah, that was my thought too.
If INNO is going to roll things out before it's ready, then why even have Beta. It makes it a waste of time, for indeed, those brave souls!

For this event Beta feedback achieved the following before the event went live:

1) Produce steel quests now accept steel production
2) OR options added to many quests
3) Workshop -1 changed to Workshop -3
3) The code for detecting workshop -3 and manufactory -1 needed adjustment
4) The in game information description for the levels of workshop -3 and manufactory -1 needed adjustment

Critical changes were made to allow the event to function properly and some balancing changes were made from the feedback. Still there was enough feedback beyond this to warrant further changes after it went live. This is the problem. Too much feedback was needed to get the event running to the Elvenar staff's liking and too little time allocated for its prerelease duration.
 

Black watch

Well-Known Member
I am REALLY, REALLY sick of this event already! Every few quests I get the scout, research or 15 vision vapors. I am at the end of the research tree so no research. It takes 4 days 16 hours to scout. That leaves me with crafting things I DO NOT want over & over. Also very sick of buying KP over & over! If their goal is to completely alienate long-term players I can't think of a better way so mission accomplished :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Though I'm not at the end of the tree, I still regulate how I go through it. I purposely upgrade my AWs to maximize my ability to produce troops faster and more than the squad size increases so I can tourney better. I've watched a couple of my clan mates march on past me while I doddle... However my AWs are the envy of my FS. That said it's still well over 40 hours for a scout for me. I'm loath to add a new squad size into my playing (I'm up against two in the tree and stuck until I do) and that leaves the Vision Vapors....
Well we all know what kind of crap is been coming up in there.
If it was pet food, some artifact or boost buildings, like the Mage Multiplier (even some decent older building), I'd GLADLY craft them. BUT (there's the but) it's not that way. Why the hell do I need or want coin rains and the other things they've loaded up in there and use my CC's on THAT?
You may say that other players need that, but even my much lower ranked clan mates aren't crafting those.
Deborah is so right when she says "I DO NOT want over & over".
This just shows a lack of balance within the game. Some elements are good, a few perhaps even great, some have potential and more and more are just not integrating into the existing framework well at all. They've taken something that was enjoyable to do and turned it into a multifaceted experience of negativity and frustration.
Beta... it's were good and bad ideas are checked out and analyzed. Unfortunately they don't seem to do that any more, otherwise how can this product so full of problems and negative feedback have gotten this far.
INNO is working so very hard to drive people away. It's exactly the opposite of what they want, and yet they are accomplishing it with ever increasing results.
Yes, "Mission Accomplished!" Well and truly said, Deborah!
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
Critical changes were made to allow the event to function properly and some balancing changes were made from the feedback. Still there was enough feedback beyond this to warrant further changes after it went live. This is the problem. Too much feedback was needed to get the event running to the Elvenar staff's liking and too little time allocated for its prerelease duration.
Indeed, the beta feedback produced some positive changes. But then the event changed further after going live and it seems the changes may have broken something. I know people have a tendency to overestimate their own bad luck with RNG, but with *this* many players reporting repeating quests, there's got to be more at work here than just random luck. Perhaps beta should be *more* than 2 weeks ahead of live. Maybe 4 weeks would be better, especially with a new chapter on the horizon.
 

Black watch

Well-Known Member
For this event Beta feedback achieved the following before the event went live:

1) Produce steel quests now accept steel production
2) OR options added to many quests
3) Workshop -1 changed to Workshop -3
3) The code for detecting workshop -3 and manufactory -1 needed adjustment
4) The in game information description for the levels of workshop -3 and manufactory -1 needed adjustment

Critical changes were made to allow the event to function properly and some balancing changes were made from the feedback. Still there was enough feedback beyond this to warrant further changes after it went live. This is the problem. Too much feedback was needed to get the event running to the Elvenar staff's liking and too little time allocated for its prerelease duration.

So this tells me they are behind the eight ball. They are rushing and being sloppy with their product. They should have held off and stuck with something that was working well enough and applied the changes to an event farther ahead to make sure it was doable. Whatever system or foundation they are using, it's not working in it's current status, or there wouldn't be so much negative feed back.
Seriously, no one can read about this event, or the spire, or damn near anything else in the forum without coming away with the overwhelming picture of a game that is becoming fatally flawed.
Soggy and a host of other fine players have for years, detailed "fixes" for this game that I've thought were very positive and would have produced a VERY enjoyable experience (Yes, I've lurked within these hallowed halls since I started playing in 2017).
INNO has addressed some of those fixes, but like everything else, they've halfheartedly thrown effort at the problems and it's taken much longer than it should.
 
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Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
For everyone complaining about what seems like consecutive quests, as I have pointed out here and in my other thread, the coding does not think they are consecutive because each range of quests after the first 29 has two separate lists that the quests alternate from. So while both lists are mostly the same options, the coding says that they are not. So to us, two Toolbox requests in a row seems identical, but each of them is from a separate pool of quests and the code and the game say they are different. This is all listed out on the elvengems website.
 

RainbowSKYEPIXIE

Well-Known Member
If this event didn't force me to absolutely halt everything going on in my city, I wouldn't mind it. Old events you could do both progress and the event on the side, but not anymore. More due to randomness then the stupid quest list they've chosen to go with this cycle.
  • Can't complete provinces for fear of 'gain 7 relics'
  • Can't do tournament for fear of 'gain 7 relics' or 'gain enchantments' etc.
  • Can't collect anything for fear of getting that quest after you collect. T1's, gold, supplies, troops, all of it.
  • Can't advance tech because my extra space devoted to 3 new T1s and 3 new WS (turns out barely needed them but I rush leveled them to level 20 after reading beta, so not deleting them now until I get teleport spells). I happen to be in between chapters so using the space has halted guest race development (hence making me tech locked).
  • Forced me to level things I didn't want leveled up.

If it wasn't for 2 of the grand prizes I really want, I'd just abstain entirely. So as it is .. I guess I'm choosing doing the event over regular game play ... maybe that is their point of doing this, but for me it's only seen as frustrating. Spending less time playing Elvenar now and more on other games I like.

Still not sure what they are even trying to 'fix' other then make it more pay to play than it used to be.
Yes This ^^^^^^ Exactly for me as well! This is completely insane! Last 5 quests for me Scout/Research a tech/15 VV's. I am still scouting from the 1st time I got the quest, I had 30+ CC spells & won some in Spire & I used all of those already, and have completed 2 techs (I'm in Amuni so I'm botched by guest race goods!). So ?? for 3 days i've pretty much completed 4 quests just to get the same one again. That is Not Random!!! I watched the video or Live Q&A & it astounds me that they sit there with smile & justified this "random" scenario. I am just devastated! :( I will find something else to do with my time that is not so aggravating but that's not the point. So what if I get a choice to pick from in a single quest if none of them can be completed within a "reasonable" amount of time. I would really like to hear from some people here that are enjoying this event & are getting really "random" quests and a list of those quests, so I can tell just how unlucky I am & that's my rant for today.....
 

Black watch

Well-Known Member
For everyone complaining about what seems like consecutive quests, as I have pointed out here and in my other thread, the coding does not think they are consecutive because each range of quests after the first 29 has two separate lists that the quests alternate from. So while both lists are mostly the same options, the coding says that they are not. So to us, two Toolbox requests in a row seems identical, but each of them is from a separate pool of quests and the code and the game say they are different. This is all listed out on the elvengems website.

If what you say is true and it seems logical and right... it's got that feel, you know... :)
Well then, in a nutshell, it seems obvious what solutions could be used to fix this "Problem". Add another list or more to draw off of so the computer doesn't have such a limited pool to use.
Change the wording of the quests sufficiently to make the computer see that they are the same.
They need to do SOMETHING, and a note to let us know they are doing something and have done something, would be nice.
Updates with communication will head off a lot of irritation and misunderstandings.
It works in business...
It works in marriages...
It works in all facets of life...
Why can't they do it here?
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
For everyone complaining about what seems like consecutive quests, as I have pointed out here and in my other thread, the coding does not think they are consecutive because each range of quests after the first 29 has two separate lists that the quests alternate from. So while both lists are mostly the same options, the coding says that they are not. So to us, two Toolbox requests in a row seems identical, but each of them is from a separate pool of quests and the code and the game say they are different. This is all listed out on the elvengems website.
Given that is correct, why does it matter to players? What are we expected to do about it? The fact remains that they are duplicate quests, whether the game thinks they are or not. Are you suggesting we not complain about them because they might not actually be duplicates as far as the game is concerned? What does it matter (to players) why it's happening?
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Given that is correct, why does it matter to players? What are we expected to do about it? The fact remains that they are duplicate quests, whether the game thinks they are or not. Are you suggesting we not complain about them because they might not actually be duplicates as far as the game is concerned? What does it matter (to players) why it's happening?

Complaining without knowing why is just whining to Inno's ears. Complaining and being able to say why something is happening might make them listen a bit more.
 

Deleted User - 3932582

Guest
Given that is correct, why does it matter to players? What are we expected to do about it? The fact remains that they are duplicate quests, whether the game thinks they are or not. Are you suggesting we not complain about them because they might not actually be duplicates as far as the game is concerned? What does it matter (to players) why it's happening?
Moreso, it doesn't really matter that much because two lists are basically the same - the second one only adds 3 extra T1 quests. So probability of getting 3x of the same quests in a row is almost the same whether you sample from a single list or from alternating ones - and I can assure you, that probability of that happening is pretty low (to the tune of 0.01% if quests would have equal probabilities of appearing). Considering how many people reporting 3 and more in a row, let's just say that hypothesis of uniform randomness does not hold - one list or two.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Complaining without knowing why is just whining to Inno's ears. Complaining and being able to say why something is happening might make them listen a bit more.
But we don't know why. It is not possible for players to tell whether it is:
  1. picking the same quest at random from the other table
  2. picking the same quest at random from the same table
  3. incorrectly simply running the quest twice after it picks it
We only know what is happening. We don't know why. If we tell them it is (1) we are only guessing, and could be injecting incorrect information. We have our experience, they have the logs.
 

Deleted User - 3932582

Guest
What I think is happening is that the Elvenar staff are trying to force a completion pace. Quests within a tier seem to be ranked based on difficulty. The faster you complete the quests the more likely you will receive the difficult ones as opposed to the easy ones. In essence if you go fast enough, all you have to do is prepare for the harder quests and the easier quests will rarely disrupt your pace.
Maybe, even though my experience doesn't exactly corroborates that (or maybe it does ;) ). I am moving pretty fast (or moved) - 90+ quests so far. And while it is hard to say how one would rank difficulty of quests, it stands to reason that at least toolboxes quest should be considered more difficult than groceries, right? Well, I've got grand total of 1 toolbox quest so far, while I've got a lot of groceries ones. Which is somewhat interesting because I was sitting all the time on several toolboxes in preparation for those quests - which never came. Well, once, which was instacompleted. On the other hand, 9h quests hammered me hard because I had only 2 WS to dedicate to other WS quests due to toolbox stockpiling.

And also, in 60+ random quests after #30, I haven't got a single buy/use KP or gain supplies, and got only 1 gain coins. These are the easiest quests, and they're suspiciously absent from my rotation. I am also getting hammered on T1 quests (gain amount), and these are hard with only 3 leveled T1s and 2x Mermaids. Of course, everyone gets plenty of scout/VV and encounters, myself included.

If I am to be a conspiracy theorist, I'd speculate that Inno was trying to tailor probabilities of quests to individual players (similar to what you theorize) - whether based on what players have in their city, how quickly they complete particular quests etc. In the process, they simply botched the implementation because even if you adjust quest probabilities from uniform we shouldn't be seeing this cycling and stickiness that many players report. This is not how random samples look like - unless underlying probabilities are drastically different from uniform.
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
I wish everyone who spends $$$ buying diamonds would stop for this event, that's probably the only way to TRULY make an impact how disliked this event/quest system is to have them see it in the pocketbook!!!! :(

I'll admit, I bought keys for this event. It does send a bad message to Inno on behalf of the players, but in my case the Brown Bear is too good to pass up. So I picked the lesser of two evils and bought currency (which is something they offer every event anyway) so I could worry about the headache of the quests as little as possible.
 

DeletedUser15684

Guest
These are two nice screenshots pf tooltips from the event that you may want to share with friends and fellowship, to clarify what needs to be built in which chapters..

Our full event Note is here: https://tinyurl.com/y5o2e9fx


70459829_10214771669545962_6969524614691028992_n.jpg


69245006_10214790881986261_87687413819768832_n.jpg
Yeh well I have factories in the previous & current chapter at the levels suggested in this screen shot & I get ZIP if I try to produce what they are asking for. Seems like a HUGE waste of time. Basically it seems like you can't get past this obstacle.
 

DeletedUser15684

Guest
@Menyan Leh Chapter 6, I believe your steel factories need to be level 11+ so they are not high enough to complete the quest.

Double checked 9+
https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=Steel_Manufactory#Steel_Manufactory_Elves
The info says level 10 for chapter 6. So if go up to 11 that would put me past the current level so to speak & most likely stil lget zip if I try to produce the iron. This crap is getting out of hand. To many quest, tournaments & other stuff going on at once.
 

kctanzen

Well-Known Member
I will be interested to see if the workshop / make goods type of quests become more frequent in between the end of marble and start of steel tourneys.
I have had 2 instances (so far) of getting clear 7 encounters / 35 provinces, with either a collect 9 relics or collect 2 stacks of units, mxed in between. Regardless of two lists or a truly transparent RNG ... this almost seems like a secondary code is checking your city to see what you do have ( like toolboxes / groceries waiting) and skips them. I have had one buy KP quest at this point .. and have amassed or spent just short of 5k keys.

Those clear quests .. were 3x each with the odd balls breaking them up.
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
For everyone complaining about what seems like consecutive quests, as I have pointed out here and in my other thread, the coding does not think they are consecutive because each range of quests after the first 29 has two separate lists that the quests alternate from. So while both lists are mostly the same options, the coding says that they are not. So to us, two Toolbox requests in a row seems identical, but each of them is from a separate pool of quests and the code and the game say they are different. This is all listed out on the elvengems website.
Twice in a row, sure. But 4-5 times in a row? With such a long list of possible quest choices, the odds of that are astounding. And for that to happen to nearly everyone, something is clearly not working right.

When they reduced the chance of certain quests occurring as often, it somehow drastically impacted the probability for the other quests. My contention is that maybe somebody put a decimal point in the wrong place somewhere. Hence my question to the mods who may not even be reading this thread any more. But at this point, I don't blame them for staying away from this thread for their own sanity. :p

My sincere hope is that whatever might be wrong can be found so what's left of this event can be salvaged.
 
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