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    Your Elvenar Team

Adjust auto-fighting on mobile or allow manual fights

Deleted User - 4366037

Guest
I mostly auto-fight my encounters, and on mobile it is obviously the only option, and it seems to me like the auto-fight results are not very balanced. For example, if I am using a full team of heavy melee units against a full team of light melee units (assuming equal squad sizes), my heavy melee units will within with only a few casualties. Even if the enemy's squad size is larger, those types of matches still result in relatively small losses for heavy melee or heavy ranged when fighting against those that are weakest against them. However, I find that whenever I use a full squad of light melee and light ranged, even when fighting against a full enemy team that my team is so-called "best against", both the light melee and ranged fighters always still take a rather significant amount of losses. This inconsistency becomes much more apparent if there is even one type of enemy that is strong against your team. I may lose a couple extra heavy melee fighters if the other team has a light melee unit, but if I am using all light melee and the enemy has even one heavy melee unit, then more often than not I will lose that entire battle.

In short, I feel like the auto-battle results generally do not accurately match the descriptions of each of those barracks fighters (for example) that all have the same 3-star power against those they are best against.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
I think it's impossible to read anything into auto-fighting, unless you're willing to redo it by letting it play out on the combat screen, and watch the whole thing. Frequently when I experience unusual losses for melee of any kind it becomes obvious on a check that there is a single-hex choke point. If only one of a player's melee can attack one of theirs, while some should-be-easy-to-kill archers or mages can sit behind the wall and plink away, attrition will win every time. With auto combat, you don't no if the fight took two rounds or twenty.
 

Deleted User - 4366037

Guest
@Ashrem, that is certainly a fair point. I think the issue for me, though, is the perspective as a mobile app player. Since in the mobile game manual fighting does not exist, for anyone who only plays on mobile there is no such thing as a single-hex choke point. There are no layouts of any kind. All they have is a system that says these fighters have equal power against certain other fighters, but the battles never equal those descriptions. To me that affects the mobile game being its own independent game, similar to receiving quests on mobile to donate x KP into another player's AW (for example).
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
@Ashrem, that is certainly a fair point. I think the issue for me, though, is the perspective as a mobile app player. Since in the mobile game manual fighting does not exist, for anyone who only plays on mobile there is no such thing as a single-hex choke point. There are no layouts of any kind. All they have is a system that says these fighters have equal power against certain other fighters, but the battles never equal those descriptions. To me that affects the mobile game being its own independent game, similar to receiving quests on mobile to donate x KP into another player's AW (for example).
Just because they can't see the battlefield doesn't mean it's not there. If you can, you can learn a lot by leaving a wipe-out encounter alone until you can look at it in a browser.

I realize fighting on mobile is annoying. I try never to do it now with melee units, only ranged and spellcasters, so that they are on at least an equal footing with their opponents when I can't see what's happening. Autofighting has the advantage of simplicity and speed. The trade-off is that once in a while you're going to lose badly because your auto-fight units can not overcome a battlefield they aren't optimized for. It's the price we pay for not manually fighting every encounter.
 

Deleted User - 4366037

Guest
Just because they can't see the battlefield doesn't mean it's not there. If you can, you can learn a lot by leaving a wipe-out encounter alone until you can look at it in a browser.

I realize fighting on mobile is annoying. I try never to do it now with melee units, only ranged and spellcasters, so that they are on at least an equal footing with their opponents when I can't see what's happening. Autofighting has the advantage of simplicity and speed. The trade-off is that once in a while you're going to lose badly because your auto-fight units can not overcome a battlefield they aren't optimized for. It's the price we pay for not manually fighting every encounter.
I still completely agree with you on the pros and cons of auto-battling versus manual fights. I think that misses my main point, though, that for the mobile game there is no such thing as manual fighting, which makes the comparison irrelevant. It might help to consider this feedback submission as a mobile player commenting on the mobile game. A mobile player should not pay a price for a feature that does not exist. Going back to my AW example, it does not really matter how much analysis is given to the details of helping other player's AWs when that is not a feature in the game.
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
The other thing you never see unless fighting manually on browser is when you win with few losses because the enemy is the one negatively affected by the single-hex choke point. So fixing that issue fixes it for both sides, and may not make much of a difference overall. I'm just leery of asking them to 'balance' anything in combat...I don't think that word means what they think it means, lol!
If I'm way off base here, feel free to tell me to go away, but...
What I'm hearing in this thread is: it is the ability to engage in manual battles that needs to come to the mobile app.
My thoughts: that depends on whether the company wants the mobile app to simply supplement browser play (what it does now) or if they want it to function as a stand alone platform beside the browser. I haven't heard a definitive answer on that subject.
 

Deleted User - 4366037

Guest
@samidodamage Bringing manual battles to mobile would certainly help with that issue, and I agree with you on the potential affects of balancing on both ends. I guess the way I see it is to either allow for manual fights on mobile so that mobile players are not punished for battlefield layouts that are not visible or accessible on mobile, or tweak how battling works on mobile so that the 1x/2x/3x/etc. strength factors against other enemies are calculated straight up (which I admit I do not think Inno would ever do). To your last point, that really is the ultimate question and likely the one that will determine whether mobile users will ever see all of the currently-existing features on the browser. I hope they do decide to go all in with the standalone platform, since I am sure they have already put in so much work in the app already (and in my opinion it deserves to be more than a supplement).
 

Sir Squirrel

Artist EXTRAORDINAIRE and Buddy Fan Club member
@Some.one , you should change the title of your post to reflect that you are talking about auto-fights on the mobile app.
Trust me you don't want them to start "balancing" anything to do with the battle part of the game. As @samidodamage said their idea of balance and ours are two totally different things.
Also, as you said when fighting with Heavy Melee. You are getting away with almost no losses, so for balance sake you have to lose some (more) troops with other troop battles. I do understand what you are saying and I think what you really need (want) is the option to manually fight, as losses can be minimized that way at the cost of time to manually do the battles. The fact that they only have auto-battle on the mobile doesn't give you that option at the moment, but the loss of more troops is the cost of having instantly finished battles.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
We have three advantages in the fights.
1) We get to choose our troops.
2) We can improve our troops via AWs, expiring buildings and the fire phoenix.
3) We get to place our troops.

Getting to choose our troops helps a lot, but as you have said, the light melee seem to not be well balanced. I tend to agree. I assume Inno uses the same algorithms for our troops as they do for theirs. Thus if you increase the balance with the LM, it does so on both sides. That would mean the battles they use LM would be harder for us to win. It's a two edged sword.

Improving our troops is just a continual process that is required to win more consistently.

Troop placement is more important than most people seem to realize and it's something Inno can do something about for both browser and mobile. It already can be done in the browser, but it is cumbersome and takes time. (You put a troop down, press for manual, look at the arena, then surrender.) If instead of the way we currently place troops, they showed a mini-arena with their troops in place and we place ours where they will start, a much better placement and selection of troops would be possible by those auto-fighting.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Just because they can't see the battlefield doesn't mean it's not there. If you can, you can learn a lot by leaving a wipe-out encounter alone until you can look at it in a browser.

I realize fighting on mobile is annoying. I try never to do it now with melee units, only ranged and spellcasters, so that they are on at least an equal footing with their opponents when I can't see what's happening. Autofighting has the advantage of simplicity and speed. The trade-off is that once in a while you're going to lose badly because your auto-fight units can not overcome a battlefield they aren't optimized for. It's the price we pay for not manually fighting every encounter.
I'm not missing the point, I'm disagreeing. Nothing is happening in either device except the display. All actions taken by the troops are calculated on the server, and there is not different combat code on the server depending whether we are playing browser or mobile.
  1. The client says "my player wants to enter this combat."
  2. The server says "These are the oponents, and this is how big your squad sizes are."
  3. The client says "These are the troops they want to use, in this order.
  4. The client says either:
    - "Please solve the battle automatically." (the only option on mobile currently) or
    - "the player will fight manually."
People who play exclusively on the browser and fight automatically will get exactly the same results as people who play on mobile, for the same encounter. Changing the code so that the fights in mobile are different from the fights in the browser requires a seond set of code, and ne of the golden rules of making money at programming is do not use two different sets of code where one will do.

Changing the way the fight happens off-screen for the browser only is a waste of resources.
 

Sir Squirrel

Artist EXTRAORDINAIRE and Buddy Fan Club member
I wanted to add, that even on PC with manual fights, I have run into unwinnable fights that I had to cater. But especially in the spire, manual fighting will save you troops on some fights. Don't forget you can craft and place the troops boosting buildings and feed your fire phenix to get better results as well.
 

Deleted User - 4366037

Guest
@Some.one , you should change the title of your post to reflect that you are talking about auto-fights on the mobile app.
Trust me you don't want them to start "balancing" anything to do with the battle part of the game. As @samidodamage said their idea of balance and ours are two totally different things.
Good call Sir Squirrel. It looks like the general consensus is that the auto-battles cannot be viewed separately from manual battles (as in different fighting mechanics and structure for auto than for manual), which is what my suggestion for mobile in this thread would be unless manual fighting is introduced. Here's hoping manual battles are eventually introduced for mobile players. I suppose this also essentially makes this thread entirely redundant, as I am sure many others have previously posted asking for manual fighting in the mobile version, so we can consider my request added to the list lol.
 

CrazyWizard

Oh Wise One
I do not expect manual battles to come to mobile ever, and if it does it will take a long long long time.

It's by far the most complex system, and it will take up a lot of development time, time they essentially don't have. they are still struggling to keep up and resolve the 3 year long backlog compared to the browser.

Last year they tried to see if they could disable manual battles on the browser.
New players had a 50% chance to have manual battles enabled or disabled for quite a while. these days it's enabled for all browser players again.
This tells me that manual battles have in no way priority for the mobile app, and they considered removing it from browser as well as a cost saving measure.

As for light melee units they just suck, and they suck a lot. that why they have (a lot) more losses.
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
The AI on auto-battles just is horrible.
I'm mostly using auto-battle due to the sheer number of battles in the tourneys and the amount of time it would take to do them manually. But several times over I've seen so-called best matches still lose a fight on autobattle. If I then do the same battle again, with the same units, but fight manually I win easily, usually with only slight losses.
When tracking the battles I can state with very high confidence that the auto-battle often results in about 40% more casualties than manual battle. The problem is I just don't have the time to do all of them manually.

Of course, increasing the AI's performance on autobattle will also mean that the manual battles will become more difficult as the opposing forces will move in a smarter way.
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
I'm not missing the point, I'm disagreeing. Nothing is happening in either device except the display. All actions taken by the troops are calculated on the server, and there is not different combat code on the server depending whether we are playing browser or mobile.
  1. The client says "my player wants to enter this combat."
  2. The server says "These are the oponents, and this is how big your squad sizes are."
  3. The client says "These are the troops they want to use, in this order.
  4. The client says either:
    - "Please solve the battle automatically." (the only option on mobile currently) or
    - "the player will fight manually."
People who play exclusively on the browser and fight automatically will get exactly the same results as people who play on mobile, for the same encounter. Changing the code so that the fights in mobile are different from the fights in the browser requires a seond set of code, and ne of the golden rules of making money at programming is do not use two different sets of code where one will do.

Changing the way the fight happens off-screen for the browser only is a waste of resources.

I'm not sure.The process you describe makes sense, but for some reason I feel that my losses are even higher (in ALL tourneys) when I use the autofight on the app than using the autofight on the browser.
Now I just am triggered, so I'll have to start keeping track of that over at least 2 full cycles.
 
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