• Dear forum visitor,

    It looks as though you have not registered for a forum account, or are not signed in. In order to participate in current discussions or create new threads, you will need to register for a forum account by clicking on the link below.

    Click here to register for a forum account!

    If you already have a forum account, you can simply click on the 'Log in' button at the top right of your forum screen.

    Your Elvenar Team

[Rejected] Change to Prevent Time Creep on Collections

AtaguS

Well-Known Member
This is an idea orginially brought forward by the Dowager, and then taken on by Ashrem, to fix the "time creep" that occurs when collecting from event and evolve buildings that are set to 24 hours. This time creep eventually pulls a player out of their routine and for those players with busy schedules or small windows of game time, it means having to miss a day's collection to get back on schedule. I've opened it up in a new thread so that the consensus version of what came out of the original post could be perfected here. I've copied what Ashrem had put together and made a few minor changes (removed the changes to manufactories as it was suggested that would never change). Please offer your feedback on the idea and maybe we can get this through to the developers. Thanks!

TLDR: Any event building with a timer of 24 hours becomes 23 hours. Any timer of 48 hours becomes 47 hours. Any time under 24 hours does not change. Any time which turns over without player intervention does not change.

All timers under 24 hours do not change

Evolving/Event Buildings
(excluding buildings with early collect options) timers change as follows:
Producing every 24 hjours change to every 23 hours.
Producing every 48 hours produce every 47 hours.

24 Collect AWs Timers would change as follows:
Producing every 24 hours change to every 23 hours

Expiring building timers change as follows:
12 hours -> No change
24 hours -> 23 hours
48 hours -> 47 hours

Tournament rollover:
No change. only 16 hours.

Neighbour help
No change, currently 23 hours

Chests from Neihbour help:
No change (they turnover on the game day without player intervention, so do not creep)

Pro: Players are less likely to lose a day's collection as a result of the collection time creep interfering with their work/life scheudles
Con: Help me out here....I don't see a con yet.

Edited by Xelenia 4/6/2020: The suggestion have been rejected at this time.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
I will recommend you should remove manufacturies, workshops and evolving buildings from those. I will simply tell you flat out, they are nothing more but pipe dreams.
This was from the original thread. Note that it rejects evolving buildings which are included in the top post of this thread. While it seems to me the devs can make the decision, I can understand @Xelenia not creating a poll with them included.

In the other thread, I listed the other buildings I know of that have long production times. They were armories producing orcs and a couple of AWs. If anyone knows of other such buildings, please list them. However given Xelenia's comment, I don't either of these would be accepted since armories are along the lines of workshops and AWs are along the lines of evolving buildings.

Someone asked about set buildings in that thread. It seems they will or should be included..

Lastly, I don't think is should include buildings, like the Vallorian Valor, that have early collect. Since they are event buildings, this needs to be explicitly stated in the proposal. Of course, that depends on what the consensus of the group is.

PS Thanks @AtaguS for taking over this.
 

AtaguS

Well-Known Member
This was from the original thread. Note that it rejects evolving buildings which are included in the top post of this thread. While it seems to me the devs can make the decision, I can understand @Xelenia not creating a poll with them included.

You are right, though I left Evolve buildings in primarily because they seemed the focus of the original complaint. I was hoping others would weigh in and perhas tip the balance.

"Yogi Dave said:
In the other thread, I listed the other buildings I know of that have long production times. They were armories producing orcs and a couple of AWs. If anyone knows of other such buildings, please list them. However given Xelenia's comment, I don't either of these would be accepted since armories are along the lines of workshops and AWs are along the lines of evolving buildings.

I also left off armories because they have - at least the option - of running shorter training times. A player who knows they won't be able to keep up with a 24 hr training cycle could (though it would be annoying to them) opt for the 12hr training cycle and deal with outcome. The 24hr AWs are another good point you brought up...I assumed the developers wouldn't want to single out a few AWs from the rest but that should be a part of the discussion here, you are right. I am going to edit my opening post to include them.

Someone asked about set buildings in that thread. It seems they will or should be included..

Set buildings...have a built-in fix to them in that you can choose to simply pick it up and place it down again. Yes, this loses the day's production, but there is still some measure of control in getting the buildings back onto a regular schedule. But players who feel strongly about adding set buildings to the mix here will hopefully speak up.

Lastly, I don't think is should include buildings, like the Vallorian Valor, that have early collect. Since they are event buildings, this needs to be explicitly stated in the proposal. Of course, that depends
on what the consensus of the group is.

Yes, very good point. I will make a point to edit the post above to leave out event buidlings with early collect options. They are annoying too but for their own reasons that don't feel they fit in this suggested fix. Thanks @Yogi Dave , I appreciate the help!
 

Xelenia

Ex-Team Member
I will recommend phrasing the con in a way to that it will clearly add some value to the game. I feel it can be expanded upon.

As far as the con, yes can be expanded upon.

Xelenia
 

Kekune

Well-Known Member
I like this. However, I'd echo comments on the previous thread that 12 hour timers should be included, too.

As far as cons, obviously it'll take some time for the developers to do this, so the resource cost is a con. Also, it would result in players collecting more resources, which may be a con if it affects balancing.
 

Xelenia

Ex-Team Member
Also, it would result in players collecting more resources, which may be a con if it affects balance.

It will, and I will advise adding it to the con. I personally do not see by how much butt the developers should be the judge of that ^.^
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
@Darielle
We need to reach consensus in these discussions about exactly what we're asking for. The original post of this thread will then be edited to present an accurate summary of specifically what we'd like to see them do. And I know the details can get boring, but the devil really is in the details in these things. I, for one, don't want a bunch of developer time spent on the 24hr timers in workshops/factories. There are other choices I can make in those bldgs, therefore for me, I think their time is better spent elsewhere. We have the benefit of staff input that Evolving bldgs most probably won't be well received either, so I think we should take them off the table. No point in presenting an idea that they immediately reject because it includes an element they've said they're unwilling to tinker with atm.

My input:
My personal feeling is that ideas that are presented simply and succinctly have the best chance of being heard, so that influences how I would approach this.
The first thing I would do is limit it to building production collection times. Then we don't have to mention the timers we're not talking about (ex: tourneys, neighborly help, help chests, etc); that's unnecessary clutter imo. Then we present the timer increments that cause the most aggravation (ex: 48hr/24hr/12hr) along with how we'd like to see those timers changed (ex: 47hr/23hr/11hr). Then we specify which buildings are exempt from our idea (ex: workshops, factories, set bldgs, evolving bldgs, buildings with early collect, etc). Then we specify which buildings would be affected (ex: expiring bldgs, event bldgs, AW's (but with AW's I think we need to be detailed on the exact AW(s) and the timer; further discussion is needed on whether AW's should be included at all imo).
The biggest con I see would be players gathering more resources without the time creep. This could cause imbalance in city/world resources if players are getting those resources primarily from affected buildings. By limiting the buildings to which we wish the changes to apply, I think we've done all we can do to mitigate this con. I also know nothing about coding/software development, so I don't know if this requires a lot of time or a little time to accomplish; that could be a con. The other possible con I see is with expiring bldgs that have a chance at diamonds on each collection. Those bldgs are coming less frequently in events, so it appears diamonds as rewards are being concentrated in the Spire at least for the time being. Since it's unlikely those bldgs are being 'hoarded'by players, there's probably not a huge supply of them in players' inventory. And they do expire, so the company retains some control over them flooding the market with diamonds that impact their revenue even with a more user-friendly timer.
 

AtaguS

Well-Known Member
Ok, if I'm paying attention, here is what might work...to get us to a poll at least. Thank you @samidodamage I've borrowed the format you suggested and used it below:

We are proposing a change in expiring and event (daily and grand prize) building production collection times as follows:
Buildings with 48hr collection times will change to 47hr
Buildings with 24hr collection times will change to 23hr
Buildings with 12hr collection times will change to 11hr

The purpose of this change would be to provide players a window of opportunity for collecting goods from buildings they have won for their city. (similar to how city visits are structured)

Buildings exempt from this change:
Workshops, factories, set buildings, evolve buildings, Ancient Wonders and buildings with early collect options.

Pros and Cons:
Pros
:
1. Players are able to remain on a collection schedule without having to lose resources due to the time creep.
2. Increased likelihood of daily collections. (this could also be a con)

Con: Possible imbalance issue due to the increased likelihood of daily collections.

It has been suggested by @samidodamage that this increase can be controled so as not to create an imbalance by limiting the number of these types of buildings available in each event to prevent hoarding.

Needs further debate:
Should we include AWs with 24 hr collection times? These buildings are annoying and easy to miss collectios on like the others, yes...but they also provide additional benefit to cities (more than a small amount of culture). Further discussion would help here.

In my opinon, if we work to earn and acquire these buildings (event planning, space prep in cities, time and -for some players- diamond use) we ought to have full access to the resources they promise without there being a built-in obstacle to them. The obstable should be in the acquiring of them, not the use of them once they are acquired. If a majority of players disagree with that premise, then I suggest adding to the poll the option of resolving the time creep issue by eliminating 12/24/48 collections all together and sticking with the set-building principle or the early collect principle as they at least give the player a choice in how to best structure collections around their lives.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
Ok, if I'm paying attention, here is what might work...to get us to a poll at least. Thank you @samidodamage I've borrowed the format you suggested and used it below:

We are proposing a change in expiring and event (daily and grand prize) building production collection times as follows:
Buildings with 48hr collection times will change to 47hr
Buildings with 24hr collection times will change to 23hr
Buildings with 12hr collection times will change to 11hr

The purpose of this change would be to provide players a window of opportunity for collecting goods from buildings they have won for their city. (similar to how city visits are structured)

Buildings exempt from this change:
Workshops, factories, set buildings, evolve buildings, Ancient Wonders and buildings with early collect options.

Pros and Cons:
Pros
:
1. Players are able to remain on a collection schedule without having to lose resources due to the time creep.
2. Increased likelihood of daily collections. (this could also be a con)

Con: Possible imbalance issue due to the increased likelihood of daily collections.

It has been suggested by @samidodamage that this increase can be controled so as not to create an imbalance by limiting the number of these types of buildings available in each event to prevent hoarding.

Needs further debate:
Should we include AWs with 24 hr collection times? These buildings are annoying and easy to miss collectios on like the others, yes...but they also provide additional benefit to cities (more than a small amount of culture). Further discussion would help here.

In my opinon, if we work to earn and acquire these buildings (event planning, space prep in cities, time and -for some players- diamond use) we ought to have full access to the resources they promise without there being a built-in obstacle to them. The obstable should be in the acquiring of them, not the use of them once they are acquired. If a majority of players disagree with that premise, then I suggest adding to the poll the option of resolving the time creep issue by eliminating 12/24/48 collections all together and sticking with the set-building principle or the early collect principle as they at least give the player a choice in how to best structure collections around their lives.
Perfect summation, in my humble opinion anyway. :)
 

NightshadeCS

Well-Known Member
First of all, I apologize for possibly muddying the waters here, but I have several opinions regarding this thread.

I do not agree with excluding set buildings based on reset ability. Picking a building up and setting it down (which will cancel the current production, thereby eliminating sometimes close to a day's accumulation) is the same as skipping a collection on a building and waiting until the next day to pick it up at the desired time. It is still time creep.

The only valid (?) argument against including sets and evolutions is that the developers view them as over-powered and the time creep is an intended check on that. This seems to be the reason behind Ancient Wonders being excluded, as well. They want us to work hard to get those 24 hour drops, and to miss one now and again.

In my opinion, time creep is most detrimental in expiring buildings, where a missed pickup is significantly more impactful.

However, I am not sure reducing these timers is feasible at all.

In a game where there is very little else to draw us into it other than picking up collections at the "right" or "most efficient" time, it necessarily needs to provide some stress in that area. Neighborly Help works well on a 23 hour schedule because it is low reward. Coins and supplies are virtually worthless. The leeway on that element is merely to ensure harmony in Fellowships and neighborhoods.

I do not believe the game "wants" to provide numerous opportunities for us to fit it to our lives. I believe it continues to try to find ways to interrupt our lives and bring us back into the game. When we miss those collections and have to reset, the uncomfortable feelings we experience reinforce the drive to continually check in with the game and make sure we are not missing anything.

Now, I know there is a balance. Some people will get too fed up and quit entirely. But I will hypothesize that is not a great proportion.
 

LisaMV

Well-Known Member
This is an idea orginially brought forward by the Dowager, and then taken on by Ashrem, to fix the "time creep" that occurs when collecting from event and evolve buildings that are set to 24 hours. This time creep eventually pulls a player out of their routine and for those players with busy schedules or small windows of game time, it means having to miss a day's collection to get back on schedule. I've opened it up in a new thread so that the consensus version of what came out of the original post could be perfected here. I've copied what Ashrem had put together and made a few minor changes (removed the changes to manufactories as it was suggested that would never change). Please offer your feedback on the idea and maybe we can get this through to the developers. Thanks!

TLDR: Any event building with a timer of 24 hours becomes 23 hours. Any timer of 48 hours becomes 47 hours. Any time under 24 hours does not change. Any time which turns over without player intervention does not change.

All timers under 24 hours do not change

Evolving/Event Buildings
(excluding buildings with early collect options) timers change as follows:
Producing every 24 hjours change to every 23 hours.
Producing every 48 hours produce every 47 hours.

24 Collect AWs Timers would change as follows:
Producing every 24 hours change to every 23 hours

Expiring building timers change as follows:
12 hours -> No change
24 hours -> 23 hours
48 hours -> 47 hours

Tournament rollover:
No change. only 16 hours.

Neighbour help
No change, currently 23 hours

Chests from Neihbour help:
No change (they turnover on the game day without player intervention, so do not creep)

Pro: Players are less likely to lose a day's collection as a result of the collection time creep interfering with their work/life scheudles
Con: Help me out here....I don't see a con yet.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK you for this! (I am new here, and tried to add my idea/opinion earlier, but it disappeared on me when I tried to post) The Neighborly Help 23h has been a god-send all this time, but the 24hr ones have crept from right after work to before dinner, during dinner (!), and now creeping into my bedtime! I am a bit disappointed in the 12hr ones not changing, since the same is happening for the evening one ~ could you perhaps allow us to use the time reductions on those for scheduling purposes?
Thank you, again!
 

Xelenia

Ex-Team Member
eliminating 12/24/48 collections

The reason I have not discouraged this discussion is that I was hoping everyone would come up with a thoughtful argument that I can at least present to the developers. With things like this as debatable options, I am now leaning further to simply removing this from my radar. You have to understand, the credibility of this section will be shot if I give just any kind of ideas to my CM to carry to the developers. Sooner or later, they will stop listening to them if he doesn't stop listening to me first.

The purpose of Ideas and Suggestions is not to bring ideas to developers to make the players' gaming life more comfortable, it is not to bring more free things to the players, and it is not to bring to their attention wishlists of items people will like to see happen to benefit them as an individual player. Though I am a moderator, I too, play the game, and I am quite aware of some of the wants and needs, and I also have my scroll of wishlists I will like to bring to the developers, but atlast....that is not the case.

The only reason I am seeing for this being pushed by anyone within this thread (and previous) is to make their gaming lives more comfortable and to give them more opportunity to stockpile on goods they feel they are missing. The purpose of the development team is not to help gather all the goods needed by the players; they aim to enhance the game and bring the same gaming experience across the board by implementing changes that will bring value to the game. I do not see any values being presented here.

If I tell you that I have been collecting my 24 and 12 hours within the same time frame for the past two months, will I be believed? I generally have an hour lunch break where I do my collections. In the event I am unable to collect during that hour frame, I wait until the next day. The general player will collect anyway and continue with their merry way. The request here is asking the developers to change workshops, manufacturies, AW wonders, set buildings, evolving buildings, and any building deemed to not fit within the "This is the time I will like to collect these" frame.
In summary, "Players are able to remain on a collection schedule without having to lose resources due to the time creep. " Put yourselves in the shoe of a development team, what value do you take away from an idea that is directed at helping the players maintain a collection schedule? Directed at players to not lose resources? How about players where 23 hours do not work for them? In just about any gaming, the player is expected to maintain their gaming schedule, and an assumption is placed at some point they will have to give up their resources or lose their resources in one way or another.

The concept behind the Ideas and Suggestions sub-section is to bring to developers ideas and suggestions to enhance the overall game as a whole, not to make it so the players can change the structure of the game to fit their playing style. I was hoping to see a reasonable argument on addressing the time creep on expiring buildings, but rather, this is turning into something else. For that, I am removing this from my watchlist. Once you have all concluded, tag me, and I will look at the poll options.
 

AtaguS

Well-Known Member
The purpose of Ideas and Suggestions is to not bring ideas to developers to make the players' gaming life easier, it is not to bring more free things to the players, and it is not to bring to their attention wishlists of items people will like to see happen to benefit them as an individual player. Though I am a moderator, I too also play the game and I am quite aware of some of the wants and needs and I also have my scroll of wishlists I will like to bring to the developers, but atlast....that is not the case.
I largely agree with your opinions here and think this is clearly the hurdle to overcome. My intention in putting this thread up is to see the original thread through to the end of a process that got started there. If the idea dies here, that's part of the process I suppose! If it goes to a poll, I think the premise behind the question would be where Inno places the obstacles to the good offered in these types of buildings...in the acquiring of these buildings, or in the use of them once acquired.
 
Top