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    Your Elvenar Team

? Members Ripped Off by BAD Trades ?

Have you ever realized you made a bad trade and been unable to undo the bad trade?


  • Total voters
    33

Qilin rui

New Member
QUESTION

So has anyone, besides myself, ever made a bad trade and been unable to undo the trade?
Recently I lost 1000s of goods I'd accumulated because I clicked too fast. And once clicked, there is NO undo.

SITUATION

Ever so often it would be nice to be able to undo a bad trade or not make the bad trade in the first place.

EXAMPLE

So I'm rapidly clicking along on the trades I want, one after another and suddenly a different trade than the one I want to click on appears beneath my cursor and because I'm flying through the trades, I click a 1-star trade before I even see the that the trade below my mouse cursor has changed from a 2-star trade to a different very bad 1-star trade, for lots of goods. Not just a few hundred goods but now I'm out thousands of goods that I've built up over time. Unfortunately I've done this more than once.

Has this ever happened to you when playing in the browser version of Elvenar?

ISSUE

And there's no way to undo.

I very much like your fast UI (user interface) that is very responsive. But, it's sad that such a great cooperative game that rewards people for helping each other, has this issue that allows bad players to take advantage of a flawed user interface while accepting trades.

Now, you can continue to allow those that would bring your game down a notch by creating 1-star trades that end up at the top of the 1-star trades and just so happen to be the BAD trade that gets clicked when the interface scrolls it up so that it suddenly appears, without warning as the last item in the panel to be clicked next; thus rewarding the bad behavior of cleaver players. Actually, encouraging BAD behavior. I've actually thought about crafting BAD 1-star trades myself that would appear at the top of the 1-stars so that I could get extra goods myself. But instead I would prefer a change in the interface, that wouldn't allow BAD behavior to be rewarded so easily. Dare I say this aspect of the current UI actually encourages BAD behavior? Of course I dare or I wouldn't have posted here.

IMPACT

Current UI trading might even lower Elvenar's ratings or cause some members to stop playing more quickly thus lowering the Elvenar revenue model, or not, really hard to say.

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS

Here are some,
POSSIBLE Changes to Fix BAD Behavior Encouraged by UI That Game Currently Uses

1) Create an option that allows for an UNDO. Maybe make the UNDO an option that can be turned off and on.

2) Make it so all trades must be verified by clicking a button in a different location on the screen. This one I hate because it would really slow down a great and fast responsive interface the UI currently has when accepting trades.

3) Disable the mouse click when the mouse hasn't moved and when a different type of trades appears beneath the mouse; momentarily, giving the interface a chance to update and for your members to see that the type of trade has changed before re-enabling mouse clicks. Might be hard to decide exactly how much time to wait, people being different and having varying degrees of responsiveness themselves. Might fix the issue but make the UI less nice.

4) Could also have an option that prevents a member from seeing bad trades if they don't want to make them at the moment.

5) Or the option could allow members to see bad trades but not let them (accidentally) make a bad trade until the option is turned back to ALLOW.

MY TRADING PHILOSOPHY

My personal philosophy is that 1-star and 0-star trades should be an allowed feature, duh, because sometimes you want to do someone a favor to help them out. But no one should be rewarded in Elvenar for tricking someone into making a BAD trade, which, is what Elvenar does as it is currently implemented.

FEEDBACK to ELVENAR STAFF

So, what are you're thoughts?
Let's give the Elvenar team some feedback.

FEEDBACK #1:

Has this ever happened to you when playing in the browser version of Elvenar? YES or NO

FEEDBACK #2:

Which of the above changes (1, 2, 3, 4, or 5) would you prefer be implemented?

BRAINSTORM A BETTER SOLUTION

And if you don't like any of my solutions, maybe take some time to brainstorm the issue and see what you come up with. List out PROs and CONs to the brainstorming ideas.

What hat would you suggest?
What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Qilin rui of Ahooga
 
Last edited:

Titandwarf

Member
QUESTION

So has anyone, besides myself, ever made a bad trade and been unable to undo the trade?
Recently I lost 1000s of goods I'd accumulated because I clicked too fast. And once clicked, there is NO undo.

Oh, but you CAN remove the trades. @Qilin rui Next time you place a trade click on the next tab to view your trades. If the trade was too generous, or if you wanted to post 5 trades instead of 7 cancel them from here.

When you are placing a trade Elvenar automatically sets the ratio for a fair 2 star trade. Which sort of takes care of #2 but there is no note saying the star rating.
 
Last edited:

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Oh, but you CAN remove the trades. @Qilin rui Next time you place a trade click on the next tab to view your trades. If the trade was too generous, or if you wanted to post 5 trades instead of 7 cancel them from here.

When you are placing a trade Elvenar automatically sets the ratio for a fair 2 star trade. Which sort of takes care of #2 but there is no note saying the star rating.

He is talking about accepting other trades, not the trades he is placing.

This can be a big problem for new players, or anyone almost out of a specific good, because all the trades you do not have enough goods to take are at the end of the list and grayed out. But once you get enough of a good to make any of those trades valid, they immediately get jumped into a spot in the list of trades, potentially causing all the other trades to shift around for the new order. And when people are clicking too fast, this can cause the wrong trade to be accepted. Unfortunately, this is the type of thing Inno will just label as human error and not want to make the effort to adjust for it. The only thing they could do that would stop these bad clicks would be to add a filter for the star rating. If you can set it to only show 2 or 3-star trades, that 1 or 0-star trade will never suddenly pop up under your mouse pointer.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
He is talking about accepting other trades, not the trades he is placing.

The only thing they could do that would stop these bad clicks would be to add a filter for the star rating. If you can set it to only show 2 or 3-star trades, that 1 or 0-star trade will never suddenly pop up under your mouse pointer.

I would LOVE to see that implemented. Maybe then these bad traders who hope for accidental clicks would never get rewarded.
 

Qilin rui

New Member
Oh, but you CAN remove the trades. @Qilin rui Next time you place a trade click on the next tab to view your trades. If the trade was too generous, or if you wanted to post 5 trades instead of 7 cancel them from here.

When you are placing a trade Elvenar automatically sets the ratio for a fair 2 star trade. Which sort of takes care of #2 but there is no note saying the star rating.

You are correct. I have no problem undoing a trade I create. The problem I keep running into is when I click too quickly when accepting other people's trades.
 

Qilin rui

New Member
I think we can improve 2) by asking confirmation only for 1* and 0* trades.
Note : this issue isn't browser-only, I accepted a bad trade once on mobile.

Yes, that would work for me. I might have done similar on mobile too. Not sure. I usually don't fly through the accepts on the mobile for some reason and can usually see the changes in trades coming. Yeah, I guess it can be a problem on the mobile interface too.

Thanks for the reply,
Qilin rui
 

Qilin rui

New Member
He is talking about accepting other trades, not the trades he is placing.

This can be a big problem for new players, or anyone almost out of a specific good, because all the trades you do not have enough goods to take are at the end of the list and grayed out. But once you get enough of a good to make any of those trades valid, they immediately get jumped into a spot in the list of trades, potentially causing all the other trades to shift around for the new order. And when people are clicking too fast, this can cause the wrong trade to be accepted. Unfortunately, this is the type of thing Inno will just label as human error and not want to make the effort to adjust for it. The only thing they could do that would stop these bad clicks would be to add a filter for the star rating. If you can set it to only show 2 or 3-star trades, that 1 or 0-star trade will never suddenly pop up under your mouse pointer.

Good observation. I like your idea of adding another filter to filter out 1 and 0-star trades. Should be easy to implement since they've already implemented other filters. Would be quite the easy database query to create.

Something like:

SELECT trades WHERE tradeRating >= 2;

We wouldn't even have to see the BAD trades unless we were desperate for a particular set of goods.

Thanks for your input, Qilin
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Good observation. I like your idea of adding another filter to filter out 1 and 0-star trades. Should be easy to implement since they've already implemented other filters. Would be quite the easy database query to create.

Something like:

SELECT trades WHERE tradeRating >= 2;

We wouldn't even have to see the BAD trades unless we were desperate for a particular set of goods.

Thanks for your input, Qilin

Now, I should have included that not all 1-star trades are bad. I don't know if you were playing before they updated the star system a few months ago, but before then, nearly all 1-star trades were horrible, especially the cross-tier trades. But with the current system, a lot of the 1-star cross-tier trades now would have been 2 or 3-star trades in the old system. The old values were 16 -> 4 -> 1 and the new values are 2.25 -> 1.5 -> 1.0, meaning that 2000 marble for 1000 silk is a 1-star in the current rating, but would have been a very good 3-star before the changes. Of course, this only true for cross-tier. A 1 or 0-star same-tier trade is still bad.

The simplest thing would maybe be for Inno to somehow stop newly valid trades from jumping into the mix from the end of the list and forcing all the other trades to shift in their order. That would stop those mis-clicks.
 

Qilin rui

New Member
Now, I should have included that not all 1-star trades are bad. I don't know if you were playing before they updated the star system a few months ago, but before then, nearly all 1-star trades were horrible, especially the cross-tier trades. But with the current system, a lot of the 1-star cross-tier trades now would have been 2 or 3-star trades in the old system. The old values were 16 -> 4 -> 1 and the new values are 2.25 -> 1.5 -> 1.0, meaning that 2000 marble for 1000 silk is a 1-star in the current rating, but would have been a very good 3-star before the changes. Of course, this only true for cross-tier. A 1 or 0-star same-tier trade is still bad.

The simplest thing would maybe be for Inno to somehow stop newly valid trades from jumping into the mix from the end of the list and forcing all the other trades to shift in their order. That would stop those mis-clicks.

I'm a relatively new member. If I was on then, I probably didn't even have any advanced goods at that point. Keep coming up with great ideas. I'm really hoping this sort of things gets fixed in some fashion or other. Ha, Qilin
 

CrazyWizard

Oh Wise One
I would LOVE to see that implemented. Maybe then these bad traders who hope for accidental clicks would never get rewarded.

I absolutly hate those nasty trades as well,
The main problem is that it's impossible to reverse a trade, unless you put a delay on that same trade deal.

because if a player would reverse a trade the reciever could go below 0 if he just spend it.
This means every trade would need like a 5 minute processing delay, and this makes it impossible to quickly help your fellows.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
My suggestion goes along the same lines. You have 5 options (0-4) at the top of the trade screen. Click the stars you would like to see. 3-star and all you get is 3 star and above trades. No star you get all trades. 1 star, 1 and above. etc. Set a default perhaps in your settings, and now you get what you want without all the rest. Pretty simple and all it would take is to run a filter just before displaying. AND it allows you to turn on the the 0 or 1 star trades for those times you want to be "generous," while protecting you from those times the other person just wants you to be generous.

AJ
 

DeletedUser2870

Guest
It happened. It sucks. But when I take a trade by accident, that is MY mistake.
Please do NOT have them add yet more clicks by 'confirm-buttons'.

Instead of trying to solve such a non-issue with more programming and buttons, I'd just prefer people to pay a bit more attention.
And yes, I have taken a lot of 'bad' trades because I was in a hurry. Should teach me to pay attention too.

That being said, an option to order trades by stars would be appreciated.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
It happened. It sucks. But when I take a trade by accident, that is MY mistake.
Please do NOT have them add yet more clicks by 'confirm-buttons'.

Instead of trying to solve such a non-issue with more programming and buttons, I'd just prefer people to pay a bit more attention.
And yes, I have taken a lot of 'bad' trades because I was in a hurry. Should teach me to pay attention too.

That being said, an option to order trades by stars would be appreciated.

They are already in order by star, and by percent of how good or bad a deal it is, and same-tier or cross-tier, and largest amount to smallest amount, and least amount of time left til a trade expires, and maybe more variables I may be forgetting.

And yes, paying attention is important. I just hated those times as a smaller city where I took a trade and I suddenly had enough of a good to make other trades valid and then those leap up into the list and shift away the one I want from under my mouse, or finger on the app. And because there can often be a tiny bit of lag, you are already clicking on something that suddenly is not what you wanted.
 

LayDHawk

Active Member
QUESTION

So has anyone, besides myself, ever made a bad trade and been unable to undo the trade?
Recently I lost 1000s of goods I'd accumulated because I clicked too fast. And once clicked, there is NO undo.

SITUATION

Ever so often it would be nice to be able to undo a bad trade or not make the bad trade in the first place.

EXAMPLE

So I'm rapidly clicking along on the trades I want, one after another and suddenly a different trade than the one I want to click on appears beneath my cursor and because I'm flying through the trades, I click a 1-star trade before I even see the that the trade below my mouse cursor has changed from a 2-star trade to a different very bad 1-star trade, for lots of goods. Not just a few hundred goods but now I'm out thousands of goods that I've built up over time. Unfortunately I've done this more than once.

Has this ever happened to you when playing in the browser version of Elvenar?

ISSUE

And there's no way to undo.

I very much like your fast UI (user interface) that is very responsive. But, it's sad that such a great cooperative game that rewards people for helping each other, has this issue that allows bad players to take advantage of a flawed user interface while accepting trades.

Now, you can continue to allow those that would bring your game down a notch by creating 1-star trades that end up at the top of the 1-star trades and just so happen to be the BAD trade that gets clicked when the interface scrolls it up so that it suddenly appears, without warning as the last item in the panel to be clicked next; thus rewarding the bad behavior of cleaver players. Actually, encouraging BAD behavior. I've actually thought about crafting BAD 1-star trades myself that would appear at the top of the 1-stars so that I could get extra goods myself. But instead I would prefer a change in the interface, that wouldn't allow BAD behavior to be rewarded so easily. Dare I say this aspect of the current UI actually encourages BAD behavior? Of course I dare or I wouldn't have posted here.

IMPACT

Current UI trading might even lower Elvenar's ratings or cause some members to stop playing more quickly thus lowering the Elvenar revenue model, or not, really hard to say.

POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS

Here are some,
POSSIBLE Changes to Fix BAD Behavior Encouraged by UI That Game Currently Uses

1) Create an option that allows for an UNDO. Maybe make the UNDO an option that can be turned off and on.

2) Make it so all trades must be verified by clicking a button in a different location on the screen. This one I hate because it would really slow down a great and fast responsive interface the UI currently has when accepting trades.

3) Disable the mouse click when the mouse hasn't moved and when a different type of trades appears beneath the mouse; momentarily, giving the interface a chance to update and for your members to see that the type of trade has changed before re-enabling mouse clicks. Might be hard to decide exactly how much time to wait, people being different and having varying degrees of responsiveness themselves. Might fix the issue but make the UI less nice.

4) Could also have an option that prevents a member from seeing bad trades if they don't want to make them at the moment.

5) Or the option could allow members to see bad trades but not let them (accidentally) make a bad trade until the option is turned back to ALLOW.

MY TRADING PHILOSOPHY

My personal philosophy is that 1-star and 0-star trades should be an allowed feature, duh, because sometimes you want to do someone a favor to help them out. But no one should be rewarded in Elvenar for tricking someone into making a BAD trade, which, is what Elvenar does as it is currently implemented.

FEEDBACK to ELVENAR STAFF

So, what are you're thoughts?
Let's give the Elvenar team some feedback.

FEEDBACK #1:

Has this ever happened to you when playing in the browser version of Elvenar? YES or NO

FEEDBACK #2:

Which of the above changes (1, 2, 3, 4, or 5) would you prefer be implemented?

BRAINSTORM A BETTER SOLUTION

And if you don't like any of my solutions, maybe take some time to brainstorm the issue and see what you come up with. List out PROs and CONs to the brainstorming ideas.

What hat would you suggest?
What are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Qilin rui of Ahooga
Inno hasnt done anything about the players placing one star or no star trades. The Archmages in the fellowships allowing this behavior are not stopping those trades either. My personal opinion for the gougers, would be to ban them from placing or picking up such trades for a short time so we can get a good trade and place one. yes agree that there are times for a one star, no star trades and in my Beta fellowship, we allow these trades during tournaments to help smaller players. The players that I see are cutthroat sentient goods on a regular basis and those select few JERKS dont really care what they do. I have placed cross tier trades but mine are THREE star trades!

having said all that I am seriously thinking about leaving the game for this very reason and get so frustrated trying to get something fixed that I dont need the added nonsense that is allowed... did I mention that US6 has several players that are the same person???? I think 5 different accounts at last count
 
Last edited:

DeletedUser4053

Guest
There are a few in my main world who have abused sentient for ages. They're lucky enough to have the rarest items. They constantly post 1 star trades to get resources, then post new 1 star trades with the extra items they just got. They're constantly "making money" on sentient trades. They get kicked out of multiple FSs for taking advantage of their own fellows, but keep doing it. And there is no way to stop seeing these jerks and their trades.

I have no problem if I CHOOSE to create a 3 star trade not in my favor. Many in my FS have accidentally clicked on these, especially if using the phone. The scroll and the click to accept a trade are super close together.

Just like there's a toggle to filter only your FS trades, I'd love to see a toggle for 2 & 3 star trades only. I'd really love an option to filter out all trade requests by user (like an ignore button). But that would be a TON of work. The first option would be easy, says the 25 year software engineer
 

DeletedUser4053

Guest
Inno hasnt done anything about the players placing one star or no star trades. The Archmages in the fellowships allowing this behavior are not stopping those trades either. My personal opinion for the gougers, would be to ban them from placing or picking up such trades for a short time so we can get a good trade and place one. yes agree that there are times for a one star, no star trades and in my Beta fellowship, we allow these trades during tournaments to help smaller players. The players that I see are cutthroat sentient goods on a regular basis and those select few JERKS dont really care what they do. I have placed cross tier trades but mine are THREE star trades!

having said all that I am seriously thinking about leaving the game for this very reason and get so frustrated trying to get something fixed that I dont need the added nonsense that is allowed... did I mention that US6 has several players that are the same person???? I think 5 different accounts at last count
I agree with you comment about Inno, but know several AMs, including me, who have released players for constant 1 star trades. That's the only option Inno has given us. I can't override 1 star trades or remove them. I can only warn and/or boot the player. The occasional lopsided trade to move resources or help a new player get started has a place in the game. My issue is the constant 0 and 1 star sentient trades.

Only 5? Some servers have players with 10, 20, and more I've heard. I can only keep track of one. If someone wants to spend that much time in front of a keyboard to advance in a game where they're not making real $$$, so be it.
 
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