SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
I believe minmax has a calc on his website
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Your Elvenar Team
Tournament Changes
- Thread starter helya
- Start date
BrinDarby
Well-Known Member
@SoggyShorts ,
Ive gone to his website... a link to a link to a cloud spreadsheet page is not a calculator.
Not in the traditional sense, and NO there is no .... input these values -> spits out answer , calculator.
The information I seek is not well defined or explained there.....
Last week, my SS is 90 ... in Barracks
reg province I send in 90ish vs 350ish
Tourn province I send in 6ish vs 6 ish
Spire 1 wave I send in 256ish vs 256ish
Nothing is consistant, doesn't seem 1 formula defines all 3.
Nothing in the new tourn format/chgs says how it effects the other two.....
there is a (seems) linear formula for Spire cater costs, no ??
It is NOT like catering in a tourn or a reg province, 1 time cost.
Ive gone to his website... a link to a link to a cloud spreadsheet page is not a calculator.
Not in the traditional sense, and NO there is no .... input these values -> spits out answer , calculator.
The information I seek is not well defined or explained there.....
Last week, my SS is 90 ... in Barracks
reg province I send in 90ish vs 350ish
Tourn province I send in 6ish vs 6 ish
Spire 1 wave I send in 256ish vs 256ish
Nothing is consistant, doesn't seem 1 formula defines all 3.
Nothing in the new tourn format/chgs says how it effects the other two.....
there is a (seems) linear formula for Spire cater costs, no ??
It is NOT like catering in a tourn or a reg province, 1 time cost.
Pheryll
Set Designer
I said proportional. The catering cost for the twentieth diagonal (20-1, 19-2, 18-3, 17-4, 16-5, 15-6) is roughly 20 times the catering cost for the first diagonal (1-1).
Pheryll
Set Designer
We are discussing the tournament changes and how the new tournament system will be using the base calculations present in the spire. The new tournament will no longer be based on your regular squad size at all. The amount of troops you bring in is determined by a formula of the form: Exponential function(research) * Linear function(city size) * Linear function(AW levels). The diagonal number you are at is a further multiplier, so that at the 20th diagonal you are bringing in 20 times the number of troops as in the first diagonal.
Pheryll
Set Designer
Correct. You will notice no change to your spire with the new tournament system. The only reason the spire is mentioned is that the two systems will share the same base calculations.
Black watch
Well-Known Member
Just started the new tourney... not impressed. However I wanted to see how things were- so here's my take on it.
DID NOT feed my Fire Bird... NO boosts active.
Had to scout each province activated. The one I did not on 7 promptly removed a lot of troops from my inventory.
It took me about 12 minutes to scout and fight the first page.
Fought to 16 before I quit for the day...
Autofight became pretty unreliable after 13 and a lost a fight and more troops than I should I feel. Manual fighting corrected the losses pretty well.
Still higher than I wanted to see on the first star round.
Time to 16 was 25 minutes. Costs in troops:
1 squad down in light ranged.
8 squads down in archers.
10 squads down in Monks
10 squads down in Mortars
1 squad down in Rangers
1 squad down in Blossom Mages
2 squads down in Frogs.
33 squads down.
My impression... It took much longer to scout and to have to manual fight than a normal old school tourney to this point. It used to take me about an hour to put in over 50 provinces. At sixteen, that's a big Nerf.
I was also left with the impression that this felt like a second round type action after page one.
I think I can firmly say, I won't be hitting 14,000+ again...
Not really happy so far and my comment earlier seems to have proven correct. With the time savings with one battle, the scouting removes a fair amount of that time coupled with the manual fighting to counter the large troop losses now possible.
I'm going to boost my bird next round and see what happens. This last time I was trying to get a feel for it to report to my younger city clan mates.
I'm going to advocate not moving past page one for them at this point.
INNO as far as I can see, hasn't done us much of a favor as it stands.
DID NOT feed my Fire Bird... NO boosts active.
Had to scout each province activated. The one I did not on 7 promptly removed a lot of troops from my inventory.
It took me about 12 minutes to scout and fight the first page.
Fought to 16 before I quit for the day...
Autofight became pretty unreliable after 13 and a lost a fight and more troops than I should I feel. Manual fighting corrected the losses pretty well.
Still higher than I wanted to see on the first star round.
Time to 16 was 25 minutes. Costs in troops:
1 squad down in light ranged.
8 squads down in archers.
10 squads down in Monks
10 squads down in Mortars
1 squad down in Rangers
1 squad down in Blossom Mages
2 squads down in Frogs.
33 squads down.
My impression... It took much longer to scout and to have to manual fight than a normal old school tourney to this point. It used to take me about an hour to put in over 50 provinces. At sixteen, that's a big Nerf.
I was also left with the impression that this felt like a second round type action after page one.
I think I can firmly say, I won't be hitting 14,000+ again...
Not really happy so far and my comment earlier seems to have proven correct. With the time savings with one battle, the scouting removes a fair amount of that time coupled with the manual fighting to counter the large troop losses now possible.
I'm going to boost my bird next round and see what happens. This last time I was trying to get a feel for it to report to my younger city clan mates.
I'm going to advocate not moving past page one for them at this point.
INNO as far as I can see, hasn't done us much of a favor as it stands.
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Well, from my understanding of things over the last 9 weeks on Beta, this is what Inno was trying to cut back on, while making it easier for the smaller and more casual players to get to 1600+. So if you clear 6000-7000 points without a bunch of lost troops or used goods, then you are lucky.
DeletedUser19458
Guest
I just did 21 provinces in round one. took just as long as it used to take to get 50, so new system, forcing me to go manual, has not saved me any time. Worse, it means I can't play tourney on phone anymore.
I'm at end game and I can only go as far as people in my FS can go who are early and mid game. So WTF is the point of growing your city? I guess this is nothing more than a city building game now (watch some paint dry for fun too), and since I'm done that ... time to move to a new game I guess?
I'm at end game and I can only go as far as people in my FS can go who are early and mid game. So WTF is the point of growing your city? I guess this is nothing more than a city building game now (watch some paint dry for fun too), and since I'm done that ... time to move to a new game I guess?
StarLoad
Well-Known Member
Initial feedback is, the Tent and Icon for the open province is too small, asking for Mana in province 2 bites, asking for Orcs in provinces 3 bites more, asking for 360 orcs (I know its a trivial amount) when last week it was 25 to 40 for all 4 is like a TENFOLD increase, seems the idea to reduce the cost to cater message got lost in that mix. Note province 10 wanted +28K T1 and 12K T2 and 6500 T3 and in my opinion that is not less.
Did 10 provinces on 1 city catered 1 and battled on auto the rest without any enhancements
Edit to add city 2
Province 1 asked for Orcs and Mana right away, after that no more Orc requests and battled thru 12 provinces but constant asking for mana to cater was close to 100K in cost if done that was above the total amounts requested for T1 or T2, seems excessive IMO
Did 10 provinces on 1 city catered 1 and battled on auto the rest without any enhancements
Edit to add city 2
Province 1 asked for Orcs and Mana right away, after that no more Orc requests and battled thru 12 provinces but constant asking for mana to cater was close to 100K in cost if done that was above the total amounts requested for T1 or T2, seems excessive IMO
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WolfSinger
Well-Known Member
Did my normal 20 provinces in round one - I auto fight everything. I had two provinces were I lost twice and had to cater - really INNO - marble tourney and I can't get an auto fight win in the first round below province 20.
I used only barracks troops primarily archers and sorceress - lost over 30 squads of archers and 10 squads on sorceress (not sure on the others as I started with over 1000 squads of each of the barracks troops and while I used the other troops in a couple of provinces - none dropped below 1000 overall.
Did not feed my phoenix or put out any other booster buildings.
It was definitely a bit of a shock seeing the squad size adjustment at only 240ish available squads in province 20
I used only barracks troops primarily archers and sorceress - lost over 30 squads of archers and 10 squads on sorceress (not sure on the others as I started with over 1000 squads of each of the barracks troops and while I used the other troops in a couple of provinces - none dropped below 1000 overall.
Did not feed my phoenix or put out any other booster buildings.
It was definitely a bit of a shock seeing the squad size adjustment at only 240ish available squads in province 20
DeletedUser20616
Guest
Well i'm no longer comfortable doing 30 provinces, the troop loss is too much. And i have DA, Mage damage and Archer damage boosts active because i'm also completing the Spire.
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Deleted User - 1178646
Guest
You need to go to that spreadsheet, copy it (so you can adjust the values on page 1) then adjust tose values.
Then the spreadsheet calculates all values and present that in the additional tabs.
Something that calculates values based on input is a "calculator" in my book
T6583
Well-Known Member
I'm going to withhold judgement a bit on the new system for a few more weeks. I typically do 20+ proviences a week. I have a DA, MMM, and ELR out in both of my cities. I didn't feed the fire phoenix in my Ch. 16 city. I have 203 AW levels and 126 expansions in that city. My Ch. 15 city has 123 AW levels and 112 expansions. I was extremely surprised that I was able to fight 20 proviences in each city with minimal troop loss and didn't have to cater at all. I probably could have done more but I want to see how the rest of the star levels pan out as I'm sure its going to get much harder based on everything I've read. Members in one of my FS with much larger end game cities have stated that after provience 20 the troop loss is ridiculous and they won't be going much further anymore. BTW adding 3 AW levels and 4 expansions in my Ch. 3 Beta city had a marked difference in how much harder tourney seemed this week.
qaccy
Well-Known Member
Unless people normally don't use unit boosters when they're fighting in the tournaments, I don't understand why they're going boostless now. Is that really a fair (or smart) comparison to look at losses without boosting your units compared to losses with them boosted?
I went in with my phoenix and did a few rounds. Once I had a good idea of what the enemy preferences were (heavy melee being by far the most common), I went back to my city and dropped a couple mage and archer boosters and finished up the rest of my provinces. Squad sizes are definitely huge and keep growing, but it wasn't too bad overall. And way faster! I auto-fought all the way through.
I went in with my phoenix and did a few rounds. Once I had a good idea of what the enemy preferences were (heavy melee being by far the most common), I went back to my city and dropped a couple mage and archer boosters and finished up the rest of my provinces. Squad sizes are definitely huge and keep growing, but it wasn't too bad overall. And way faster! I auto-fought all the way through.
Black watch
Well-Known Member
qaccy: "Unless people normally don't use unit boosters when they're fighting in the tournaments, I don't understand why they're going boostless now. Is that really a fair (or smart) comparison to look at losses without boosting your units compared to losses with them boosted?"
I usually fight with my Fire stoked up and angry. Sometimes using multiple boost buildings. The problem is, I remove myself from comparison of the smaller cities in my FS, most of which don't have the bird. It was my attempt to close the distance between us a bit.
So I tested the waters as close as I could to give them information at least somewhere in the ballpark.
That said, I fight a lot. I try various things in various ways to see how things stack up. Sometimes I forget to boost my bird and happily fight through half the tourney on the first star before I shake my head and wonder why the enemy is doing so well. I did that last week. So this is a fair comparison.
I usually fight with my Fire stoked up and angry. Sometimes using multiple boost buildings. The problem is, I remove myself from comparison of the smaller cities in my FS, most of which don't have the bird. It was my attempt to close the distance between us a bit.
So I tested the waters as close as I could to give them information at least somewhere in the ballpark.
That said, I fight a lot. I try various things in various ways to see how things stack up. Sometimes I forget to boost my bird and happily fight through half the tourney on the first star before I shake my head and wonder why the enemy is doing so well. I did that last week. So this is a fair comparison.
WolfSinger
Well-Known Member
I typically don't use the boosters except in the traditionally harder tourneys (which marble has never been one) and I usually wait until my 2nd round to feed my phoenix. I have a feeling that will be changing now.