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    Your Elvenar Team

I've Got The Residue Blues

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
In your original post, you referred to players in ch 1-5, now you are just concerned with ch1-2? I was able to make 5 in ch 2, with a level 2 MA. How many other members would be in this FS of ch1-2 players that you are referring to and how many would they each make?
In your original post you said that the FA was doable for "new" members. I was addressing that post, not mine. New members to me are in the first couple of chapters. However, let's go along with your premise that you are in chapter two and have a level 2 MA.

Okay, if you made five arcane badges, that means that you acquired at least 20 combined catalysts to make those five arcanes, using at least 4 ccs minimum to acquire 10 vision vapor. According to ElvenArchitect, combined catalysts in a level two workshop take 20 hours to complete. So it would have taken you approximately 400 hours to complete five arcane badges. Either you had a big stash going into the FA or is Elven Architect wrong about the time? Or did you have a large stash of time instants to burn to get the ccs faster? Something doesn't add up, unless Elven Architect is wrong. 400 hours in an FA that did not encompass 400 hours just doesn't make sense to me, but if I'm brain freezing, I'll be the first to admit it if you point it out.

Now, in order to get past the one waypoint that required 35 arcanes (I don't remember which map it was on but I know I saw it), it would take at least 140 combined catalysts. If everyone had a level 2 academy, that means they'd need a minimum of 2800 combined hours of work to complete that one waypoint. Explain to me how your fellowship managed it. I'd be interested.
 

Alram

Flippers just flip
I got loads of stuff during the misty forest event and I fragged it all since it was useless to me at Level 1 and 2. I started making cc's as soon as I set my MA down.
I have no idea how many cc I had going into the FA but I did get to open my mystical object for the first time because of the FA. It was very exciting. I got a bunch of timers which I used in my MA.
I am not in a FS with all ch1-2 players. That was your premise, not mine. I was simply asking, if I, in ch 2, was able to make 5, wouldn't an entire fellowship of us little people have arcane's covered?
Edit: I started ch3 on Sunday and upgraded my MA.
 
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SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
I, in ch 2, was able to make 5, wouldn't an entire fellowship of us little people have arcane's covered?
Very doubtful since this:
I got loads of stuff during the misty forest event and I fragged it all since it was useless to me at Level 1 and 2. I started making cc's as soon as I set my MA down.
Is far from the norm.
---------------------------------
This is where players like yourself and @iyapo have a hard time seeing things from other perspectives. It's not reasonable to expect all, most, or even many players in your chapter to get your results if you are in the top 1% of players at your level.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
@SoggyShorts , Am I really in the top 1 percent at my level? Where did you find that? Yay!!!!
Do a quick survey. Check how many chapter 1/2 players have a buttload of SF and CCs.
Even if you were in the top 49%, that means that MOST players couldn't get results as good as yours.

Do you think you are in the bottom 50%?
 

Alram

Flippers just flip
@SoggyShorts Are you saying that you just pulled that 1% nonsense right out of your soggy breeches? That is so cold! Good thing we aren't in Canada pulling that bull patty.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Are you saying that you just pulled that 1% nonsense right out of your soggy breeches?
No, it's a fact, you just don't know how I define "the top" 1%. Much like how inno pulled random prices out for their sale, I have a special secret algorithm that sorts chapter 1 and 2 players.

I trust that you at least grasped the concept though? You understand that if you are doing better than average then most people are doing worse?
 

Alram

Flippers just flip
Yes, the super secret soggy drawers algorithm. Sounds like more bull patties to me but I'm a new player so what do I know, right?
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I got loads of stuff during the misty forest event and I fragged it all since it was useless to me at Level 1 and 2. I started making cc's as soon as I set my MA down.
I have no idea how many cc I had going into the FA but I did get to open my mystical object for the first time because of the FA. It was very exciting. I got a bunch of timers which I used in my MA.
I am not in a FS with all ch1-2 players. That was your premise, not mine. I was simply asking, if I, in ch 2, was able to make 5, wouldn't an entire fellowship of us little people have arcane's covered?
Edit: I started ch3 on Sunday and upgraded my MA.

Your premise was that "new" fellowships could complete the FA; that it was not impossible for them. Your premise, not mine. And you answered part of my question ... you had a stash of combined catalysts and time instants before going into the FA, and you had the diamonds to level your MA as soon as you first set it down. That's why you were able to make five arcanes within the time limit of the FA. (And btw five arcanes per member might not have gotten you through all three maps, even on one path. You may have had other members do more.)

Many new players do not have a stash of catalysts and time instants, and your premise that the FA is doable should not be based on prior stashes. Inno has a responsibility to make the FA at least possible for all members to complete, even if a lot harder for new members than for the rest of us. If they don't want to do that, then they should stop luring new members into the FA through advertisements, announcements, etc. Make it a perk for later chapters, like the spire is. But don't set them up for a fall ... it simply isn't fair. (And I'm not advocating that they be barred from the FA ... I'd rather see Inno either make the badge easier or else make it easier only for the lower level players. I'll live with it, if I have to, but I don't think they should.)
 

Bethanne Rainbow

Active Member
That is because they have not upgraded their Magic Academy. Maybe they are hoarding their diamonds or maybe they wasted them on something else, but you should check with them on that.
I did check with them. They are both in chapter 3 and have leveled up their respective MAs once. To upgrade now is 250 diamonds. They started with 200 and at least half of those are demanded in the learning quests at the beginning of the game.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
I did check with them. They are both in chapter 3 and have leveled up their respective MAs once. To upgrade now is 250 diamonds. They started with 200 and at least half of those are demanded in the learning quests at the beginning of the game.

I would have to look up exactly when they are awarded, but there should be enough diamonds by the end of chapter 2 to have the 250 diamonds for a level 3 MA. But your comment I replied to was vague enough, at least to me, that it sounded like these players were further than chapter 3 and had just not bothered to use diamonds for the most important diamond-costing feature in the game.
 

DarkKitty

Active Member
it sounded like these players were further than chapter 3 and had just not bothered to use diamonds for the most important diamond-costing feature in the game.

See, here's where I think it helps to have experienced members in a fellowship to help guide you along. I just entered Ch 6 and had no idea until I read this thread that this was something important to invest in. If I see diamonds, I usually skip it because I think of it as a perk, not something that is more or less necessary to succeed in gameplay. We decided to avoid the path that required the residue because none of us thought it was doable. (I still think it's too hard but I don't know the math for an upgraded MA at our chapters.)

I know this wasn't your implication, but I wanted to add that there are definitely players who want to get the most out of the game but just don't know this stuff.
 

Henroo

Oh Wise One
I would have to look up exactly when they are awarded, but there should be enough diamonds by the end of chapter 2 to have the 250 diamonds for a level 3 MA. But your comment I replied to was vague enough, at least to me, that it sounded like these players were further than chapter 3 and had just not bothered to use diamonds for the most important diamond-costing feature in the game.
It is quite possible a chapter 3 city would not enough relics to benefit from upgrading the magic academy beyond level 2. If a player does not do much in the tournament every week then they are not going to accumulate a big enough stockpile of relics to keep a higher level MA going. Or if a player has moved through chapters 1 and 2 very quickly then they will not yet have done a full cycle of tournaments to accumulate extras of every type of relics. I generally advise new players in my fellowships to wait until they have completed at least a full 9 week tournament cycle before spending diamonds to upgrade the MA beyond level 2. That way they will have plenty of relics to keep it going.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
I am not shedding any crocodile tears or pretending that I am advocating for others.

You want baby food, fine! Admit it and move on. Stop saying its for my sake.

Oh, oh poor little players it is too hard for them.... but lets screw them utterly elsewhere because you know, they suck! The pretense here is a little much.

"Stop saying it's for my sake" implies you think the motives of the speaker do not include being motivated for your sake. Motives, as I've argued elsewhere are difficult to pin down and it's quite possible that more than one motive is at play. Yes, I can want something for my sake, but I can also want it for the sake of others at the same time. Just because it's good for me doesn't mean that it automatically must be bad for everybody else or at least neutral for me to support it. Motives are cumulative with each positive adding to my overall sense of the matter. So when Soggy says he recognizes something will benefit others, take him at his word. Then when he says the change won't affect him, that too is probably true. The net of the two motivations is a plus and thus he can support the change for the benefit of others. Perfectly reasonable position.

As for the rest of it, I'm not sure how you get from "they are weaker" to "pretense." By using the phrase "o poor little players it is too hard for them" you imply that Soggy feels that way. Putting emotions into other players views is probably not wise, and certainly can be needlessly annoying to the other player.

On this thread players are asking that the difficulty of creating the badge be reduced or "nerfed".

My question was...If you already have a super secret plan on how to deal with them as is, why reduce the difficulty?

How about because, like Soggy, I think the overall health of the game means more players and more players mean more revenue and more revenue means maybe, just maybe the developers can develop things the players want? Maybe I don't see my own interests totally at odds with the interests of others and can see how supporting something that is good for the game will help everyone, including myself, in the long run?

And the secret plan is probably not so secret that nobody else isn't going to do it. I have to admit it was a bit "tongue in cheek." The changes I suggest, as I've said elsewhere, would be too much and thus I've also suggested a bit of an increase in the amounts of badges needed. Sometimes a fix overshoots the mark and another, smaller fix is needed to bring it back.

AJ
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
If I see diamonds, I usually skip it because I think of it as a perk, not something that is more or less necessary to succeed in gameplay.
It is absolutely not necessary to succeed. Investing diamonds in it simply let's you shake it more often.
But that is only useful if you plan to shake it. If you dont really tournament or spire then investing in the MA is a waste of diamonds because you wont have enough ingredients to keep it running.

I agree with @Henroo that upgrading the MA should wait, at least until you decide your playstyle.
 
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Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
Maybe I don't see my own interests totally at odds with the interests of others and can see how supporting something that is good for the game will help everyone, including myself, in the long run?
I will just repeat the above.

The badge as is, is an excellent way to introduce new and not so new players to the MA and the mystical object, as it is the primary source of gaining in game currency I see that as a net gain for the whole community.

I already know about it. Nerfing the badge requirements to the point that the Mystical Object does not open will have zero impact on me. It will simply increase the number of badges I personally can make.
 
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edeba

Well-Known Member
I'd like to know how a fellowship with players in chapter one or two could do the FA. If you could explain how they could do arcane badges, I'd appreciate it.
I think the idea of having a FS with all chapter 1 and 2 players and expectation of doing the FA is absurd.

But having said that, the arcane residue requirements are simply too high. Beta feedback was to make the requirement 5 VV, and they went from 15 to 10, but now that I've played the FA on live, I think the requirement should be 3 VV. I don't think I was able to make 50% more between beta and live because so many badges were already 9 & 6, or 7 & 8 or 9 & 7 or 8 & 8 or 9 & 8 and going from 15 to 10 didn't change those badges, and those amounts were from the badges I mostly want to make, and matching the 2s and 3s, if they were available, really was wasting resources.
 
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