Every Item Crafted in MA gets an Arcane Residue Badge

[Aritra]

The Ability to produce CCs and fragments is already scaled once in the acquisition ( the costs of doing the spire etc. are already lower for early cities)

How is the ability to produce CCs scaled?
(This is a general question, but possibly relevant in the AR/MA since topic of scaling was mentioned.)

I don't entirely understand how scaling works (concept, yes, specific factors, no) so I have no idea if this is related but it recently took me two and a half weeks (!) to get the opportunity to craft dust to make any CCs (the other two relics necessary tend to remain plentiful for whatever reason, rarely craft those). (And I checked the MA at every six hour turnover so I didn't miss an opportunity; I did not turn recipes over with diamonds because they are too few and far between to gamble like that, no guarantee the turnover would produce the item sought; And even neighborly help bonus chests denied me, relics but not those, grrr) My MA came to a halt (I held back spending the last couple, saving them for when relics became craftable), and worse, it overlapped with FA, so that obviously affected my ability to contribute AR, which was already a tall order. I became dependent on spire as an unreliable source as I can't always afford to play and can't assume I'll even get CCs for it. Thank goodness for this tourney or who knows when I'd be producing CC's again. I'm stocking up!

How does difficulty level based on chapter affect things like recipes? Does this have anything to do with what I experienced, or simply bad luck? Or is scaling simply price adjustment ratios determining if that chapter can afford 5 relics at 350 frags vs 1000 frags (or whatever, for example)?

 

[Iyapo1]

How does difficulty level based on chapter affect things like recipes?

Chapter level has no impact on the recipes offered or the cost of the recipes.
The scaling is in actually climbing the spire and in fighting the tournaments.
It will cost my chapter 5 less to get to the top of the spire than a chapter 6 city. It will cost me less to get the same tourney points as a chapter 6 city.

We both pay the same number of CCs and frags to craft items, but it is cheaper for me to get the relics, CCs and frags.

it recently took me two and a half weeks (!) to get the opportunity to craft dust to make any CCs

Oh wow! I am so sorry, that goes beyond bad luck and into some sadistic Murphy's Law loop. Ick

 

[just sayin]

Yes i agree 1craft= 1 badge

 

[Darielle]

I would support this even if just to let the devs realize they need to have another look at how this badge works. There are more points to look at than just it is "doable". Like the randomness of recipes, the fact it cost diamonds to renew the list for recipes, the fact that you need a fully upgraded MA to craft CC's at even a painstakingly slow pace, the cost in CC's (the cost of relics and time to make CC's) and spell frags (for smaller cities, later chapters mostly have them in over abundance), and the fact you have to craft stuff you have no intention of using.
This is a really expensive badge to make in any half decent amount. This is why I think they need to look at either rolling over the VV's or some other way to make it a not so extensive drain on resources.

So true. Painstakingly slow is right ... with a Level 2 MA, it takes 20 hours to craft one combined catalyst, and you may need four or more to make 10 vv. To require 80 hours to make one badge-- and that's assuming you can get the right recipes not to waste too much in creating it-- is utterly ridiculous. (And yes, I know you can craft more than one cc at the same time ... IF you can get the right relics, which when I was in chapter 2 were always in short supply for me.)

 

[Ashrem]

How is the ability to produce CCs scaled?

The later the chapter a city is in, the larger the number of troops or supplies to complete a Spire encounter.

 

[Palavyn]

It should be left exactly as it is, requiring 10 vision vapor. I'm grateful that this and the Golden Bracelet badge act as bottlenecks in the FA. It reduces the incentive to destroy your city in order to maximize production of blacksmith or other similarly tedious badges so that you can run the score up in the bottomless pit.

 

[BluebellJana7]

Any Fellowship planning in advance to spend time in the Pit will have plenty of these when they do get to the Pit. The Bracelet and Residue are much bigger limits on the Pit than something of which you can pre-make dozens, or hundreds.

No matter how hard we try to stock up on Blacksmiths they are always our undoing. Our FS has a wide range of levels and not all of us have large amounts of workshops to make 1 & 2 day builds all during the tourney.

 

[AtaguS]

It should be left exactly as it is, requiring 10 vision vapor. I'm grateful that this and the Golden Bracelet badge act as bottlenecks in the FA. It reduces the incentive to destroy your city in order to maximize production of blacksmith or other similarly tedious badges so that you can run the score up in the bottomless pit.

Is this why they made the changes?

 

[Palavyn]

Is this why they made the changes?

I'm not sure, but the FA is much more fun now. On the previous FA I cleared out enough room to build over 200 level 1 workshops and other players in my FS cleared out even more space.

 

[BluebellJana7]

I'm not sure, but the FA is much more fun now. On the previous FA I cleared out enough room to build over 200 level 1 workshops and other players in my FS cleared out even more space.

I'm going to wait for the next FA before I clear out my workshops. If T1 is the manufactory of choice I can replace the workshops with the T1s.

 

[Aritra]

I do agree that something needs to be adjusted, but I think one craft = one badge is too little, too easy.

Perhaps instead of quantity of vision vapor, quantity of recipes?
(specified that per recipe crafted regardless of quantity within that)

 

[SoggyShorts]

I do agree that something needs to be adjusted, but I think one craft = one badge is too little, too easy.

the fix for that is easy though.
One craft = 1 badge, and then adjust the required badges per spot up by 5,10,15% or w/e

 

[Darielle]

I understand scaling ... the higher the chapter, the more troops/goods you need to fight or cater. But it stands to reason that the higher the chapter, the higher level your buildings are and the more troops/goods you can make per hour. So I really don't understand why it's considered easier for an early chapter player to climb the spire or do the tourney. If I can make 100 supplies and 50 planks per hour as a newbie, and it costs 100 supplies or fifty planks to complete a province, how is that "easier" for me than an advanced player, who can make 10,000 supplies per hour and it costs 10,000 supplies to complete a province? There's something I'm not quite getting here.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

I understand scaling ... the higher the chapter, the more troops/goods you need to fight or cater. But it stands to reason that the higher the chapter, the higher level your buildings are and the more troops/goods you can make per hour. So I really don't understand why it's considered easier for an early chapter player to climb the spire or do the tourney. If I can make 100 supplies and 50 planks per hour as a newbie, and it costs 100 supplies or fifty planks to complete a province, how is that "easier" for me than an advanced player, who can make 10,000 supplies per hour and it costs 10,000 supplies to complete a province? There's something I'm not quite getting here.

Yes, scaling of difficulty/needed resources is what Elvenar uses, and is what the people who want things to be easier are complaining about.

The scaling does seem to be too much or one or not enough of the other, as there is not much difference for fighters. In fact, early chapter fighters cannot keep up with the troop production of late chapter cities. It is more in the catering area that the new imbalance seems to be now, especially cities that are chapter 8 or earlier, because they will never need orcs or mana or anything other than the 6 standard goods and coins and supplies to cater. An early chapter production-focused city should be able to easily match a late chapter city who has to use space for sentient goods and mana and seed and orc production, instead of just producing a ton of standard goods.

 

[Iyapo1]

So I really don't understand why it's considered easier for an early chapter player to climb the spire or do the tourney.

Not easier, just cheaper.

 

[SoggyShorts]

But it stands to reason that the higher the chapter, the higher level your buildings are and the more troops/goods you can make per hour. So I really don't understand why it's considered easier for an early chapter player to climb the spire or do the tourney.

If scaling was perfect, then yes.
The reality is that the production of troops goes up 500% but troop losses increase 600% (Obviously made up numbers, but you get the point)
A prime example is chapter 16. I've just entered the chapter so that my event prizes are better, but if I continue to the end All I get is a couple of armory levels and training grounds while very significantly increasing all costs.

 

[samidodamage]

@Darielle
It would be fine if the scaling happened that way, but it doesn't with the actual formula that is being used. I try to wrap my brain around the math stuff in a way I can understand, so my explanation may not be technically accurate, but here's how I see the way the game scales**:
Things aren't just added together to determine a city's progress level, they're multiplied times each other. So, instead of expansions +research +AW levels, it's expansions X research X AW levels. (I'm sticking to 3 things for simplicity though I know there are a couple more)
So if a small city has 6 expansions, 15 research, and 12 AW levels, their difficulty level is 6X15X12=1080
To your way of thinking about scaling, you'd expect a city twice as advanced to be about twice the difficulty level. Instead:
A city that has progressed 2x's as far with 12 expansions, 30 research, and 24 AW levels, their difficulty level is 12X30X24=8640
**It is not this simple as there are also decimal multipliers applied to the raw numbers of these items in each city. But, it does illustrate the impact of the specific type of formula used to scale things up.

 

[Darielle]

@Darielle
It would be fine if the scaling happened that way, but it doesn't with the actual formula that is being used. I try to wrap my brain around the math stuff in a way I can understand, so my explanation may not be technically accurate, but here's how I see the way the game scales**:
Things aren't just added together to determine a city's progress level, they're multiplied times each other. So, instead of expansions +research +AW levels, it's expansions X research X AW levels. (I'm sticking to 3 things for simplicity though I know there are a couple more)
So if a small city has 6 expansions, 15 research, and 12 AW levels, their difficulty level is 6X15X12=1080
To your way of thinking about scaling, you'd expect a city twice as advanced to be about twice the difficulty level. Instead:
A city that has progressed 2x's as far with 12 expansions, 30 research, and 24 AW levels, their difficulty level is 12X30X24=8640
**It is not this simple as there are also decimal multipliers applied to the raw numbers of these items in each city. But, it does illustrate the impact of the specific type of formula used to scale things up.

Thank you; that helps me to see it clearly.

 

[Darielle]

If scaling was perfect, then yes.
The reality is that the production of troops goes up 500% but troop losses increase 600% (Obviously made up numbers, but you get the point)
A prime example is chapter 16. I've just entered the chapter so that my event prizes are better, but if I continue to the end All I get is a couple of armory levels and training grounds while very significantly increasing all costs.

I appreciate the explanations from you and Sami; that helps so much.

 

[Darielle]

Not easier, just cheaper.

Thank you.