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Your Elvenar Team
FA Badge collection made easier
- Thread starter tanount
- Start date
hvariidh gwendrot
Well-Known Member
thanks heyla
hvariidh gwendrot
Well-Known Member
so i really am sympathetic to app players and the tiny buttons, it is a disadvantage for them in relation to this topic, and possibly a stop and collect function vs a rollover function that can be abused, i can get on board with, but the problem being discussed is not a flaw in the game design asking for tasks to make a badge to be used .. it's a problem with the size of buttons on the phone
AtaguS
Well-Known Member
I truly wonder if the debate between auto-collect badges vs tedious labor collect badges will ever be resolved until Inno actually puts some love and effort into designing a Fellowship Adventure worthy of even the energy it takes to debate. It was a great concept and then I feel like it was rushed into being, rather than having time to develop and really flesh it out. An event style series of tasks but with the requirement that a fellowship communicated with each other, coordinate and agree? Great concept! Horrible end product..
What we got was a ton of mindless and meaningless clicking to complete tasks which may or may not get used if or when you're logged in at the time they are needed - for very little reward.
To improve this they have
1) reduced the number of clicking - but left the clicking itself mindless and meaningless...which means eventually even the reduced clicks will feel like too many, and
2) gave us a pit which nowexcepts accepts all badges - only great if your fellowship enjoys or plays the pit and if you are logged on if and when it's time to play the ones you have.
Why not an overhaul? Why not keep the concept cuz it's great...but really do some re-thinking about how the game functions?
What we got was a ton of mindless and meaningless clicking to complete tasks which may or may not get used if or when you're logged in at the time they are needed - for very little reward.
To improve this they have
1) reduced the number of clicking - but left the clicking itself mindless and meaningless...which means eventually even the reduced clicks will feel like too many, and
2) gave us a pit which now
Why not an overhaul? Why not keep the concept cuz it's great...but really do some re-thinking about how the game functions?
- Give us some decent interface tools for this heightened time of communication...
- Scale the rewards to match the group effort like the spire does...
- Make the process more exciting (add mystery reward chests along the paths, or hidden potholes/markers with surprise badge requirements, etc),
- More engaging (give us a way to count and organize badges and badge distribution beyond the stupid and endless message system),
- Feel more like a group game (have a window within the FA map showing which players are currently in the map with us)
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tanount
Member
Or possibly during FAs there is a “badge” mode that as you sre collecting for badges will stop collecting when you reached the righ count for ta badge ( the rest of items will turn g like coins do when treasury is full) collect the badge and all goes back to normal this feature could be turned on and off on the badge collection page. This would prevent the lost badges and prevent stacking for the competitIves when a badge quota has been reached a small pop up window could allow collection of the badge without having to close down multiple screens and opening multiple screens to collect badge and return to position to collect more. This would better enable phone and tablet players to utilize their playing surface and equalize some of the advantages of playing on a computer
just a thought
just a thought
tanount
Member
Definitely feels like clickbai at times coupled with FarmVille with buildings instead of crops the main difference is no posting to the world on your homepage that you had a very successful apple harvest...........
tanount
Member
And yes I realize as long as there has been people there has been people looking for loopholes or ways to cheat the system to get ahead of others.
that’s why cheat codes sales for PlayStation and Nintendo etc. almost matched the sales for the games themselves
to me having unlimited lives with unlimited gold with unlimited supplies makes playing the game worthless and the people who utilize them even more worthless and their accomplishments less than nothing.
but hey that’s on them and if that is what it takes for them to feel good about themselves and beat thei chests then all the more power to them.
a little competition is healthy and for the extremists if empty bragging rights trip your trigger then go for it and I’ll be the first to say “who cares”.
as for the rest of the players FAs are whacked it’s a lot of effort for little overall gain a”team building “ exercise at best. Making things a little simpler and less like clickbait would be something one would think INNO would want to do
thrre are purists that want nothing to change Others don’t want to lose what they perceive as an advantage. And others who would not see this as an improvement or not enough of one
just a thought
that’s why cheat codes sales for PlayStation and Nintendo etc. almost matched the sales for the games themselves
to me having unlimited lives with unlimited gold with unlimited supplies makes playing the game worthless and the people who utilize them even more worthless and their accomplishments less than nothing.
but hey that’s on them and if that is what it takes for them to feel good about themselves and beat thei chests then all the more power to them.
a little competition is healthy and for the extremists if empty bragging rights trip your trigger then go for it and I’ll be the first to say “who cares”.
as for the rest of the players FAs are whacked it’s a lot of effort for little overall gain a”team building “ exercise at best. Making things a little simpler and less like clickbait would be something one would think INNO would want to do
thrre are purists that want nothing to change Others don’t want to lose what they perceive as an advantage. And others who would not see this as an improvement or not enough of one
just a thought
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Right from your first post on the subject(as far as I could find) you started with calling people babies(link):
Just do a search for your posts containing the word "baby" or "lazy" by you and you might see a pattern.
Yes, I chose to take offense and later insulted you as well for which I apologize. Genuinely. Obviously, it didn't move the conversation forwards, nor did it make our interactions any better.
Especially since I've recently condemned another player for basically never making the world a better place I should strive to do better.
To that end, Here's an attempt on my part for some reasonable honest discourse:
This is where I and others get a little...confused about your position on the subject.
- If it wouldn't have a negative impact on you and it would have a positive impact on others, why be against it?
Ok, I'll grant that I don't have exact numbers, but I think it's a pretty good guess. I'll take you through my thought process and feel free to pick it apart, it's entirely possible that I have erred.
- A quick look at rankings shows about 400 fellowships with at least a few thousand points in the FA.
- So we do know for a fact that of active fellowships around 95% don't finish in the top 20.
- 75% of active fellowships don't even crack the top 100
- I think it's reasonable to guess that most of them aren't actually trying for a top finish and are playing for fun and/or stage prizes.
- It seems reasonable to conclude that these non-competitive fellowships don't need/want the advantage that a high tolerance for tedium combined with extra diligent collection might give them.
- Forum users who comment on Fellowship Adventures are probably in Fellowships.
- I think those users communicate with their fellowships and at least to some degree are acting as a voice for them.
- After just about every FA, at least one thread is made regarding the interface on the Beta, US, EN, DE, RU, and NL forums (I don't check others)
- In those threads, it is generally unanimous that the tedium should be removed or reduced,, the only question is "how?", not "if". You are close to being the sole exception across those 6 forums. (I have seen 2 other players on the fence, and one with you)
- While it's not guaranteed that each poster represents 25 players, if they do, and you only represent a maximum of 200 players across 8 servers, your stance on the subject is extremely rare... I'd even say that the vast majority disagree.
hvariidh gwendrot
Well-Known Member
when the majority of players come in to forum and vote i'll count the numbers, till then it's all guess work on the numbers and anyone saying otherwise is just making up numbers .. and once again a misquote what i said was using bots instead of paying attention would make it in to a babies game, vs a challenge which is what most people i talk to prefer .. then well we've seen where that has progressed to but apology accepted sorry that upset you as well .. there is a negative impact for a rollover feature, and ways to abuse it, especially for those that are in competition mode, so if innogames is presenting adventures as a competition for ranking, where trophy is involved, why include a feature that can be abused when there are other fixes to the situation, those players are nuts in my opinion on the amount of money and effort put in to these adventures but are part of the math as well, and this would set up a dynamic that would encourage cheating .. who agrees or disagrees has never been or will ever be a constriction to my thinking or posts
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SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
So we can't come to any sort of decision because we don't have certainty? That seems a little limiting.
We don't have a majority of players coming to the forum at all and never will.
but in the case of
We don't know with absolute certainty that most players want this fixed
vs
We don't know with absolute certainty that most players don't want this fixed
Why does the second one win?We do know that an overwhelming majority of those who do visit the forums want it fixed, and I don't see why that would count for less than the zero evidence to the contrary.
"Guess Work" is all anyone ever really has, I mean you are asking for something absolutely impossible so all we can use is the evidence that we do have and extrapolate to make an educated guess.
Like surveys. If you ask 1,000 who likes the smell of dog turds and 99% say no, we can probably apply that to the greater population.
Continuing to feed everyone dog turds just because we don't have 100% of the information doesn't feel like the right play.
We only had a small fraction of the player base on the forums complaining that the original "decline 16x per badge" system needed updating and that change turned out to be extremely popular. I'd even risk it and say it was an improvement for the vast majority.
Would you mind going into a little more detail as to how you think rollover could be abused?
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hvariidh gwendrot
Well-Known Member
neither wins is exactly my point, so why try and use math that can't be confirmed one way or the other .. i am not sure answering how to game a potential game function is allowed so i'll use the most obvious .. all the alt accounts and slave cities in the game, all it takes is a slight tweek here and then and they are perfectly legal under game guidelines .. now imagine all of them filled with l1 workshops and t1 factories where 1 clcik and swipe acquires 100's and 100's of badges at a pop and tell me that wont happen .. the only thing that has stopped it so far is players have to go through the motions of making then collecting them 1 at a time
WiseChoice
New Member
Come on... just enjoy playing...
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Ok that's simple:
That won't happen.
I thought your fellowships were top FA performers? Surely you know that residue and bracelets badges are the choke point for any advanced FS?
Your imagined "Slave" city teams can't get more of the rare badges under a rollover change so there's no room for abuse.
Besides, anyone who wanted to use turd towns to make necklaces or some other semi-important badge isn't prevented from doing so under the current system.
No, it's not though, because the choice is between no change vs change, so absolutely one of those "wins"
We have zero evidence other than you that people don't want change
We have loads of evidence from everyone else who does want change.
Why should your single voice drown out everyone else's?
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SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Yeah...that's the goal. A better interface = more enjoyment, that's why these threads pop up every 2 months for years now.
hvariidh gwendrot
Well-Known Member
like i said there are other work arounds that can't be blocked .. you guys are not thinking this through
tanount
Member
Cheaters are going to cheat regardless it’s impossible to stop. But if every idea is stopped simply because someone or multiple someone’s may find a way to exploit it then we should just eliminate all ideas and suggestions and game improvements because they surely will try and eventually succeed some legal within guidelines and others not so much but is happening and will continue to happen. IMO the game can either stagnate as is overall for fear of loopholes and or cheating or it can strive to be better for all and more enjoyable
hvariidh gwendrot
Well-Known Member
i've put forth ideas other than rollover .. got a few more in my pocket lol in case you were really wondering if i read the posts ) .. and yes it is impossible to stop cheating, but this would make it way easier, enjoying the game is why i tend to participate as a contrarian when this idea raises it's ugly head .. as far as dissecting sentences>> the neither side wins << has nothing to do with the final outcome inno makes, it has to do with posters using made up math to try and prove a point ..neither side wins the point when they use imaginary numbers, and saying i used the word lazy and baby was in response to a post not a spontaneous declaration hahaha .. for me it's not so much taking pot shots as correcting someone else who tries to use really poor debate techniques
Enevhar Aldarion
Oh Wise One
Blah blah blah.
Any half-decent fellowship can easily complete one path per stage in the 6+ days of the Adventure.
And the super-competitive fellowships that complete every single waypoint and then spend days in the Pit should have to work for that top 10 finish.
Everyone wants everything easier and easier, but there is a line between better and so easy that the game becomes boring and not worth playing.
If any kind of rollover could get added, it should have a strict limit of saving that one or two extra buildings collected, but not all the badges possible in one long swipe across the city. So, if you need 5 toolboxes and you accidentally collect 7, the 2 extra would not be lost. But if you collect 15 in one swipe, you still only get one badge, plus the max of 4 extra this would save. And so on. This should also only apply to the badges that need a specific number of productions, not troops or coins or vv, etc. Those are our choice to collect more than needed, not a mistake swipe.
Any half-decent fellowship can easily complete one path per stage in the 6+ days of the Adventure.
And the super-competitive fellowships that complete every single waypoint and then spend days in the Pit should have to work for that top 10 finish.
Everyone wants everything easier and easier, but there is a line between better and so easy that the game becomes boring and not worth playing.
If any kind of rollover could get added, it should have a strict limit of saving that one or two extra buildings collected, but not all the badges possible in one long swipe across the city. So, if you need 5 toolboxes and you accidentally collect 7, the 2 extra would not be lost. But if you collect 15 in one swipe, you still only get one badge, plus the max of 4 extra this would save. And so on. This should also only apply to the badges that need a specific number of productions, not troops or coins or vv, etc. Those are our choice to collect more than needed, not a mistake swipe.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
I agree! I think it should be even more of an impressive accomplishment and to that end we should add an "awesome" popup after each collect just to see who's really skilled a the FA.
Better yet, let's go back to the REAL FA, the original recipe where true Elvenar heroes clicked that "decline" button 16 times between handing in a badge- now THAT took REAL skill!
Edit: What was I thinking?! There's room to improve on the onld way too! Not just "are you sure" between each decline, but also an "are you REALLY sure?"
Maybe another with "are you really really sure?"
oooh the possibilities for fun and skill testing are endless!