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    Your Elvenar Team

Negotiating Too Easy

CrusaderMichael

Active Member
I think you should nerf negotiations and make it much harder. Multiple low level (Edit... negotiate only players) people racing up spire like it's nothing, then blasting out tourney numbers in the 3000+ same week, week after week.

This keeps up the only smart path will be to ditch my troops for a while... and i'd hate that.

I like seeing my troops bodies strewn across the battlefield, having given their lives to my glorious cause of getting more diamonds, and i like putting effort in to the game to make it happen.

Negotiating is just too easy and too rewarding.

LONG LIVE THE FIGHTERS !!!!!!!!!!!!
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
I hesitate to call you a bad leader but enjoying the dying cries of your own men is not a good sign.

I laughed at this. Thanks.

@CrusaderMichael

I'm curious as to why it bothers you in a non-competitive game, that others have found an easier way (for them) to achieve their goals? How would it benefit "fighters" to have the "negotiators" forced to fight or pay a lot more to negotiate?

AJ
 

StarLoad

Well-Known Member
Just do not respond to the troll ... period
dont feed troll.jpg
 
Last edited:

CrusaderMichael

Active Member
I laughed at this. Thanks.

@CrusaderMichael

I'm curious as to why it bothers you in a non-competitive game, that others have found an easier way (for them) to achieve their goals? How would it benefit "fighters" to have the "negotiators" forced to fight or pay a lot more to negotiate?

AJ

bothers me? no.

I just find certain aspects of this game to be designed around "reward the lazy".

In this case they come up with all this fighting content and people not only bypass it in a lazy mouseclick, but they can go up spire so much easier than people who fight.

I am starting to think Elvenar is the place where people go to retire from the actual fighting and accomplishment of Forge of Empires.

Has me curious what percentage of Elvenar players left FoE for this game. And what percentage of them are "good job Devs you made it so much easier to get around all the enemies you created" type people.

Even the way they reward people who barely do anything with full fellowship reward sorta makes me laugh.

1 thing after the other is just "good job you took the easy way out... you get full rewards !!!".

But in this case... why even bother creating the enemies if the smartest way by far is to bypass them in some negotiating city setup?

What other game does this ? haha

FoE is looking better and better.

The benefit AJ, is that fighters have to intentionally play in an inferior way to get the same rewards if they fight... by game design.

Only in Elvenar would a glut of players say "gee seems smart to me... please, make it even easier to get rewards and easier to bypass all that content".

FoE, for the win
 

Nectar of the Gods

Well-Known Member
There is nothing "easy" about negotiating in either the Spire or Tourney. Negotiation requires goods, gold, and supplies. Supplies and gold and goods are not easy for younger cities. The higher the chapter you are in the higher the price and the more items it requires to cater. Catering can require orcs, seeds, mana, and sentient goods. A person has to get those goods to negotiate with and that takes effort and planning. Everything that is spent on catering is one less thing you have for Techs and Upgrades and Trading. The costs are too high for negotiation and negotiating can wipe out a person of needed goods/seeds/orcs/mana/sentient goods if they are not very careful.

Fighting? What makes you think everyone wants to fight? I do a mix of catering and fighting. I hate fighting but I do it because otherwise I wouldn't be able to complete the Spire and contribute to Tourney. I wish I could cater everything. I have never played FoE and never intend to play FoE. If that's the game for you then go for it. Play both. Play FoE alone. Play neither. No one is forcing you to play anything. It is your choice. Elvenar was never meant to be a FoE clone. But I challenge you to take one week and just cater the Spire and Tourney--no fighting, just catering. Then tell me how "easy" it is.
 

CrusaderMichael

Active Member
There is nothing "easy" about negotiating in either the Spire or Tourney. Negotiation requires goods, gold, and supplies. Supplies and gold and goods are not easy for younger cities. The higher the chapter you are in the higher the price and the more items it requires to cater. Catering can require orcs, seeds, mana, and sentient goods. A person has to get those goods to negotiate with and that takes effort and planning. Everything that is spent on catering is one less thing you have for Techs and Upgrades and Trading. The costs are too high for negotiation and negotiating can wipe out a person of needed goods/seeds/orcs/mana/sentient goods if they are not very careful.

Fighting? What makes you think everyone wants to fight? I do a mix of catering and fighting. I hate fighting but I do it because otherwise I wouldn't be able to complete the Spire and contribute to Tourney. I wish I could cater everything. I have never played FoE and never intend to play FoE. If that's the game for you then go for it. Play both. Play FoE alone. Play neither. No one is forcing you to play anything. It is your choice. Elvenar was never meant to be a FoE clone. But I challenge you to take one week and just cater the Spire and Tourney--no fighting, just catering. Then tell me how "easy" it is.

you can fully clear the spire and pull way more than your share of a 10 chest tourney, every week, setting up your city for pure negotiator, as a 20k city.... and with little downtime.

You can't even come close to doing that as a fighter or mostly fighter hybrid.

This game currently is designed around taking the easy route, even if so many of you can't see it. If you want to fight, then fight... like i do usually... but it's by design an inferior way to play in terms of reaching rewards faster and doing it with the least downtime.

The answer is balancing... like all games have to do... in this case... nerfing the easy route.

The people who actually are against such nerfing and pretending the game is nearly perfectly balanced that way, are either just not knowing how to set up for such an imbalance, or they are trying to keep the devs from ruining their gig.

When you have people planning out FA's by ripping up their cities to prepare for a few flag pulls, i really don't expect many such people to understand the giant pink elephant that is right in front of their faces, concerning the giant advantage pure negotiating has.... even if you yourself can't figure out how to set up your city to do it.

I think the devs are suffering from a case of too many yes men patting them on their heads, blinding them to gaping holes in this game.

The game is not even close to being perfectly balanced fighting vs negotiating, unless you city is NOT set up for negotiating then it feels like it's roughly the same. Negotiator setups rule this game... it's not even close.

I'm not complaining... it's just a simple fact and an odd way to create a game considering all the fighting content they created.

"this isn't true".... yeah, and the world was flat
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
In this case they come up with all this fighting content and people not only bypass it in a lazy mouseclick, but they can go up spire so much easier than people who fight.
you can fully clear the spire and pull way more than your share of a 10 chest tourney, every week, setting up your city for pure negotiator, as a 20k city.... and with little downtime.
You can't even come close to doing that as a fighter or mostly fighter hybrid.
Really inexperienced opinions I'm afraid.

In the mid to late game:
Auto-fighting the spire is just as fast as catering if not faster.
Autofighting 6x6 for your share of 10 chests can be done blind-folded with random troop selections

Then comes advanced tournaments where purely catering your share of 19 chests is extremely difficult to sustain whereas a semi-dedicated auto fighter can do it quite reasonably.

Then comes the hardcore tournament. Send a message to the top 20 tournament players on your server and ask how many are full cater.
Spoiler: it's none.

Then come the really difficult parts of catering where capped/limited/decaying resources bottleneck you like orcs, mana, and seeds as well as sentient goods.

Sorry, but you're just a little uninformed on this one.

Note: I'm a pure auto-fighter because it's easier and faster.(and I'm lazy)
 

mucksterme

Oh Wise One
According to Elvenstats Opie is is Chapter Four

This is like having an eight year old tell an adult how to drive

You talk about people who get 3000 every week.
Guess what, I'm one of those people. Except last week when I got 10,000.
You're on Fely, check the leader board.
Know how much negotiating I do?
Zero
And I also fight to the top of the spire every week.

Get another ten chapters under your belt and then come back and tell us what we are all doing wrong.
 

Sprite1313

Well-Known Member
At high-level tournament play orc production isn't sustainable

Soggy, you are way off. It would only take me about one day of production in my four maxed armouries to produce the orcs I need to cater one encounter. Since I only fight to 30 provinces, that means I only need about six months between tourneys to be able to cater. Totally sustainable.

Of course, then I couldn’t do any research...
And wouldn’t have enough supplies to upgrade buildings...
Oh, and add the time to stock up for spire...

shoot, maybe you are right.
 
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