Is ToS worth it?

[Revo1]

Yeah, that's how I get sometimes, and then I'm sorry I ever invested in whatever it is. I usually wind up planning to make an equal infusion in points and at the same time delete whatever it is I hate. That way, my fellowship doesn't feel the hit. They don't even know I've added and deleted, if the points are roughly the same. But it's hard to spend that much and not get any credit for it, I know.

Yes, so many good and relics & time boosts I don't want to sell it but it uses up a lot of space.

 

[shimmerfly]

@Aegliriel Gilmir
I say build it for now. It won't hurt you and you don't have to keep it forever.
Defineatley build the Golden Abyss when you can

 

[DeletedUser29117]

Another city I have has both GA and the tome…. And I’ve been considering to delete the tome because it takes up 7 more squares than GA, and offers less. I only placed it a few weeks ago, so it’s still at level 2.

But I didn’t delete it yet because of the ranking points and the kps.

Also, I haven’t been scouting too much since all the provinces are hard or very hard.

I probably won’t keep it forever, but I’m going to keep it for now.

 

[Iyapo1]

^^ this

but if you ever get serious about tourneys don't level it to a point where you'll feel uncomfortable deleting it (imo)

Same goes for the Golden Abyss. I love my Golden Abyss. But if you want a tournament killer. It is not a keeper.

Edit: I am not building a tournament killer and my level 30 GA is spectacular, I love it and will defend its value in any city....except a hard core tournament city.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I deleted my TOS way back in ch 4 because I felt it takes up too much space for what it’s supposed to do. I have evolving buildings that give me way more

I wouldn't compare the ToS to anything that you can't get multiple copies of. It's not an either-or situation there. When deciding what to delete looking at your worst producer makes more sense than your best.

If you want to compare the supplies from the ToS you need to see

How often you scout and how many supplies that gives you.​

then compare it to

How many supplies your workshop gives over the same time period and how much space that workshop + population + culture requires.​

​

Only then can you fairly compare the 2, and although it's been a while, the answer was always that the ToS gave more supplies per day as long as you scouted 3-4x a week or more even with a level 2 ToS and no PoP spell active. Then the KP per day was just an added bonus.

@everyone If you post your info we can do the math and see how the ToS fares
1. What production times do you set your workshops to?
e.g 9h x2 + 3hx1 or 9hx1 +3hx4
2. What's your max level workshop?
3. What's your max level residence?
4. What is your usual culture bonus?
5. How many supplies does your ToS give per scout? (if you don't have a ToS you can still check it
6. How often do you scout? (optional, we can make this the answer instead)
7. elf or human?
8. chapter

 

[Revo1]

GA is pretty good, so is needles. But stay away from the ToS and Crystal light house.

 

[Henroo]

GA is pretty good, so is needles.

For a combat oriented player, I would say Needles is beyond pretty good. For this type of strategy, I would say it is one of the most important wonders. On the other hand, it is totally useless to a hard core catering player.

 

[Soleil Nightbloom]

GA is pretty good, so is needles. But stay away from the ToS and Crystal light house.

Yeah, I have been debating whether to sell my crystal lighthouse as well. But, the ranking points and cliff design stop me every time.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I wouldn't compare the ToS to anything that you can't get multiple copies of. It's not an either-or situation there. When deciding what to delete looking at your worst producer makes more sense than your best.

If you want to compare the supplies from the ToS you need to see

How often you scout and how many supplies that gives you.​

then compare it to

How many supplies your workshop gives over the same time period and how much space that workshop + population + culture requires.​

​

Only then can you fairly compare the 2, and although it's been a while, the answer was always that the ToS gave more supplies per day as long as you scouted 3-4x a week or more even with a level 2 ToS and no PoP spell active. Then the KP per day was just an added bonus.

@everyone If you post your info we can do the math and see how the ToS fares
1. What production times do you set your workshops to?
e.g 9h x2 + 3hx1 or 9hx1 +3hx4
2. What's your max level workshop?
3. What's your max level residence?
4. What is your usual culture bonus?
5. How many supplies does your ToS give per scout? (if you don't have a ToS you can still check it
6. How often do you scout? (optional, we can make this the answer instead)

The issue is that you always get your supplies at moments you do not need it.
And once the supply production explodes in chapter 14?/15? it just becomes a very expensive paperweight

 

[DeletedUser29117]

@everyone If you post your info we can do the math and see how the ToS fares
1. What production times do you set your workshops to?
e.g 9h x2 + 3hx1 or 9hx1 +3hx4
2. What's your max level workshop?
3. What's your max level residence?
4. What is your usual culture bonus?
5. How many supplies does your ToS give per scout? (if you don't have a ToS you can still check it
6. How often do you scout? (optional, we can make this the answer instead)

1. 24 hr
2. 8
3. 12
4. 160% or 170%
5. 9600
6. Not very often, all the scoutable provinces are hard...the last time I scouted was around a week ago.
7. elf
8. 3

The workshops part may change. I just unlocked level 9+

 

[Soleil Nightbloom]

@SoggyShorts, I didn’t look at it through that perspective when I was comparing back then in ch 4. Which has now got me curious and I have provided my current stats for my now ch 11 city to see what you guys come up with. My current stats are in bold.

1. What production times do you set your workshops to? 9hx1+3hx5
e.g 9h x2 + 3hx1 or 9hx1 +3hx4
2. What's your max level workshop? Lvl 26
3. What's your max level residence? Lvl 27
4. What is your usual culture bonus? Usually between 125%-150%
5. How many supplies does your ToS give per scout? (if you don't have a ToS you can still check it) 104k
6. How often do you scout? (optional, we can make this the answer instead) 1-2 per week

 

[StarLoad]

Also, I haven’t been scouting too much since all the provinces are hard or very hard.

So you stopped scouting due to over scouting, that is good that to hear and will correct itself very soon I am sure.

 

[Darielle]

@everyone If you post your info we can do the math and see how the ToS fares
1. What production times do you set your workshops to?
e.g 9h x2 + 3hx1 or 9hx1 +3hx4
2. What's your max level workshop?
3. What's your max level residence?
4. What is your usual culture bonus?
5. How many supplies does your ToS give per scout? (if you don't have a ToS you can still check it
6. How often do you scout? (optional, we can make this the answer instead)
7. elf or human?

1. 3 hour x 4 plus 9hr daily
2. All workshops are magic, so I can't see their level. The highest is leveled to Constructs. The others are leveled to Amuni. (6 workshops total)
3. 32
4. 160
5. Rewards per scout 204K (I checked it; I don't have one built)
6. About 1x every 48 hours
7. Elf

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Aegliriel Gilmir
You need to scout about once every 3 days to make the ToS worth it at the current level. This gets significantly better with a couple of levels in it though.
It also doesn't account for the free KP it gives you every day.

Spoiler: The Math

Lava codex:
Culture= 350
Base 2x2 =4
87.5 c/s

Residence:
pop= 290
base= 4 squares
Road= 1
culture bonus= 160
culture = -96*1.60 (153.6/87.5=1.75)
Footprint= 6.75 (4+1+1.75)
Output 43 p/s

workshop
Supplies= 1,952
Base 2x3 = 6
road= 1
pop = -107 (107/43=2.5)
culture bonus= 160
culture= -53*1.60 (84.8/87.5=9.7)
Footprint= 10.47 (6+1+2.5+0.97)
Output= =186 supplies/s/d (1952/10.47)

ToS=9600 per scout
Base= 4x4
Roads= 2
Footprint= 18 (16+2)
Output= 533 supplies per square per scout

Comparrison:
533/186*24= Must scout once per 69 hours for ToS to equal workshop productions.

 

[Darielle]

By the way, I just calculated that the Tomes would give me in 48 hours what my Constructs magic workshop will give me approximately in 6 hours, with a PP spell on it. No thanks!

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Soleil Nightbloom

Must scout once per 136 hours (5.6 days) for ToS to equal workshop productions.

Spoiler: The Math

Lava codex:
Culture= 2500
Base 2x2 =4
625 c/s

Residence:
pop= 2200
base= 15 squares
Road= 1.5
culture bonus= 125
culture = -883*1.25 (1103.75/625=1.77)
Footprint= 18.27 (15+1.5+1.77)
Output 120.41 p/s

workshop
Supplies= 43,588
Base 7x3 = 21
road= 1.5
pop = -2165 (2165/120.41=18)
culture bonus= 125
culture= -1158*1.25 (1447.5/625=2.32)
Footprint= 42.82 (21+1.5+18+2.32)
Output= = 1,018 supplies/s/d (43,588/42.82)

ToS=104,000 per scout
Base= 4x4
Roads= 2
Footprint= 18 (16+2)
Output= 5,777 supplies per square per scout

Comparrison:
5,777/1018*24= Must scout once per 136 hours (5.6 days) for ToS to equal workshop productions.

 

[SoggyShorts]

By the way, I just calculated that the Tomes would give me in 48 hours what my Constructs magic workshop will give me approximately in 6 hours, with a PP spell on it. No thanks!

You're ignoring the fact that your magic workshop requires over 60 squares to opperate.

Must scout once per 113 hours (4.75 days) for ToS to equal workshop productions for supplies, and that's just at level 1!

Spoiler: The Math

Lava codex:
Culture= 4500
Base 2x2 =4
1125 c/s

Residence:
pop= 3500
base= 15 squares
Road= 1.5
culture bonus= 160
culture = -1449*1.60 (2318.4/1125=2.06)
Footprint= 18.56 (15+1.5+2.06)
Output 188.58 p/s

workshop
Supplies= 143,680
Base 6x4 = 24
road= 2
pop = -5600 (5600/188.58=29.7)
culture bonus= 160
culture= --3100*1.60 (4960/1125=4.41)
Footprint= 60.11 (24+2+29.7+4.41)
Output= = 2,390 supplies/s/d (143680/60.11)

ToS=204,000 per scout
Base= 4x4
Roads= 2
Footprint= 18 (16+2)
Output= 11,3333 supplies per square per scout

Comparrison:
11,333/2,390*24= Must scout once per 113 hours (4.75 days) for ToS to equal workshop productions.

Note: A level 1 ToS can't compete with a Magic workshop if it has a PoP spell on it unless you scout daily, but a modestly leveled ToS can give it a run for the money, and you must ask whether you are running PoP spells on all workshop all of the time.

 

[Kawhi is a Raptor]

Same goes for the Golden Abyss. I love my Golden Abyss. But if you want a tournament killer. It is not a keeper.

Edit: I am not building a tournament killer and my level 30 GA is spectacular, I love it and will defend its value in any city....except a hard core tournament city.

unless you go my route (stopping at lvl 3 frogs/running negative pop) and

a) it's your main source of gold
b) there's really nothing significant that could replace it 16 aw levels be damned
c) i change my mind and decide to progress again and the thought of relevelling it *and* a lvl 12 mountain halls is too much (this translates to 'i could prolly delete it but i'm a lazy coward')

https://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/638ef3d7fa8a413eb3e19277954b1d5d/

 

[Soleil Nightbloom]

@SoggyShorts This is very interesting and giving me something to think about. Thanks for crunching the numbers for me.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@SoggyShorts This is very interesting and giving me something to think about. Thanks for crunching the numbers for me.

You're welcome. Another quick one to keep in mind: it costs 888 KP to get the ToS to level 6 from level 1 at which point it gives an extra KP and 100% more supplies than at level 1 meaning you would need to scout with it just once every 11 days