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    Your Elvenar Team

Rune Shard changes

Rp44

Active Member
One FS started specific threads for GA, Needles and MM/Sanctuary with three threads for each- 15, 30, 45. Nine threads is a lot but we wanted to see how it might work for some initial dumping. This FS adores the FA so we're not trying to use them all (besides ones reserved for the next rune phase) right now, just get some workable ideas. We'll solicit feedback on Monday. :)
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Related to this, I've heard some wild numbers given (90!) on how many rune shards to save for the next rune phase. My rune phases usually only take 20-30 shards and the higher end is only with bad luck. What are your experiences with this?
I think 30 is a good number, although I have built entire rune wheels with 0 runes of the wonder by breaking runes of other wonders and forging broken shards. Now I won’t have as many runes to throw away.
 

MaidenFair

Chef - Head Philologist
Related to this, I've heard some wild numbers given (90!) on how many rune shards to save for the next rune phase. My rune phases usually only take 20-30 shards and the higher end is only with bad luck. What are your experiences with this?
90! Good heavens. I suppose mathematically that could happen, but ouch. My experience has been more like yours; my last two rune phases took 17 and 16 shards respectively, with a fully filled broken shard bar when I started on the first and a halfway filled bar on the second (both from tourney). I usually estimate about 20 shards per wheel but I think I do get lucky a lot, so take that for what it's worth. ;)
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Related to this, I've heard some wild numbers given (90!) on how many rune shards to save for the next rune phase. My rune phases usually only take 20-30 shards and the higher end is only with bad luck. What are your experiences with this?

No, the max it will ever be with worst luck possible is 81. The 1st rune shard never breaks because the wheel is empty. And then 80 more, if you somehow break 80 rune shards in a row, at 10 broken shards per spot.

Once or twice I have had the best luck and filled in the wheel without breaking a single shard, so 9 needed, and the worst I think I have ever had happen was in the 40-50 rune shard range. So I would say that saving 50, at the most, would be a good strategy.
 

helya

Beloved Ex-Team Member
@helya - I have someone in one of my Fellowships asking if they will activate the AW limit on themselves by using their pile of Rune Shards on their own AWs. They've been playing for years now, so they have quite a lot of Rune Shards.

I'm afraid we're all not quite sure how the limit thing works since it's never been an issue for any of us before.
No they will be fine.
 

FantasticFalcon

New Member
I set up a 15KP swap. Seemed like a good idea yesterday morning. Nope! It was a total free for all. Not complaining at all. It was fun until we had players blocked because of the cap. That really is hard to avoid since different players are on at different times. I'm thinking everybody had a lot of fun with it though :)

Adding: Not happy at all today! Too many FS members are blocked today. We figured it would reset when the new day started. Nope! o_O:confused::eek:

I've been blocked for days; pretty much since the beginning. Based on what I've been reading, I tried donating a chunk of kp via runes (can't use numbers here) to different FS members and some other players today. Even after that, I'm still blocked up. I have no idea what it would take to get unblocked. For all I can tell, I might have to donate a million KP to get unblocked.

I can't really participate in any of the FS kp swap threads. Our threads got all mucked up with me being blocked up. We tried keeping track. It's just a mess.

I can't tell when I'm blocked unless someone tells me. I think I've just been blocked the whole time. I guess I'll just have to abstain from any kp interaction with other players until things hopefully get fixed. That'll probably make things even worse and draw it out further based on the descriptions.

All this potential going on and I can't really participate. Sounds like I'm not alone though.

I had setup 15 and 30 kp threads as well. I'm wondering if those will be problems when others get blocked up as well.
 
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BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
ok, so I don't have any AW's .... will I hit this invisible Limit too ??
If so, then thats a terrible trigger for abuse, without coded exceptions.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
ok, so I don't have any AW's .... will I hit this invisible Limit too ??
If so, then thats a terrible trigger for abuse, without coded exceptions.
You can't hit the limit since it's based on you receiving KP in your AWs. However, it you give lots and lots of KP to someone, they may get locked from receiving more from others until they give away KP or time passes.
 

Sprite1313

Well-Known Member
My FS has added nearly 300 AW levels since the update, and have had one player locked for about an hour (we had a couple of generous end-game players who donated 300-450 KP to everyone in the FS). Once she logged in, she was able to donate and get herself unlocked pretty much immediately.

We are actively using this option, and have not run into any issues (except the increased lag, which has added some communications issues, but all manageable).
 

Soleil Nightbloom

Well-Known Member
You can't hit the limit since it's based on you receiving KP in your AWs. However, it you give lots and lots of KP to someone, they may get locked from receiving more from others until they give away KP or time passes.
I’m not sure if this was asked already but, is there a distinction between regular KP or the KP generated from a rune shard when giving to an AW? Or, does any type of KP on an AW lockout a player?
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
Please share how you handled this on Beta and/or EN and/or how you plan to handle it here. Is it completely ridiculous to think it can be "handled" at all? I am especially interested in ideas outside of your normal KP exchange.

What we settled on is to create a new 150 KP thread that excludes the last 2 pages of AWs. This is because not everyone has 10+ runes of those, but pretty much everyone has 10+ runes of the others. Smaller threads can be used to fill out the chests and finish them off.
 

MichaelMichael

Day and Night Trader
This is the worst upgrade ever. I have a rather unique strategy that put 1 KP on perhaps 2,000 individual AWs - many of which may never be upgraded. The goal of the 1 KP strategy was primarily to get 5 KPs at some point in the future. It takes a while, but it worked well regularly provide a say 15-30 5 KP instants every day, In Shard mania, my conjecture is that many of those AW were upgraded with Shards without material contributions beyond my one, In any case, I am generating a lot more shards and lots and lots of KP instants. In my fellowship, we generally wait until all chests are taken but that is less true in other fellowships, especially small ones. How many instants am I gaining during Shard Mania? I and currently getting perhaps as many as 3000 Kp in instants each day - I know for a fact that I got 249 "5 KP shards" today as I did not spend them until tonight. The 20s were used throughout the day so they are probably more value than the 5's. Unfortunately, no one in my fellowship (or anyone else) can get any points from these upgrades. I and all my AWs are 100% locked out virtually all the time. This shard mania is just stupid. Meanwhile, I would like to trade KPs within my fellowship. For the first day that worked - very rarely since. Trading is a good team building exercise which would have productively eliminated excess shards without impact outside of fellowships. This option is no longer available - a bad choice. Instead, my shards went first to players in my fellowship and then to neighbors to a lesser extent. Using traded shards was time consuming but 3 or more upgrades were pretty straight forward exercises until I was locked.

Outside of trades, the bidding to get the top position on say a Golden Abyss got out of hand. In my own fellowship (by those outside it), bidding has in some cases gone past 150 KP. What does that mean? Starting players have no chance of getting shards for Golden Abyss and early chapter AWs. This is a horror and I doubt it will ever settle down. Inno really SCREWED low level players. While people should do what is in their interests, the game designers should not design the system to help higher level players to the detriment of low level players. The shards for early chapter AWs by high level players is always going to be very high. So this problem should have been 100% expected.

Since I review 200+ neighbors every day, I can say commonly bids of 45Kp or more are found on early chapter AWs. I have over 500 Golden Abyss Shards. A number I can NEVER spend so bidding up to 45, or even 150, is in my interest to get a return for this excess resource. One answer to the problem is to make the return of using on your own AW HIGHER than for gifts to others. That would have far better incentives for good gaming. Of course, the better solution is to let gifts within fellowships be unlimited or only allow shard contributions within fellowships.

I don't really want all these KPs for shards. They are bad for the game and makes a good game, just too easy for advanced players. I had thought the original plan was to contribute shards for shard based upgrades. That to me made sense. It would have been a good tweak. This one is beyond stupid.
 
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MichaelMichael

Day and Night Trader
Proposal to mitigate the shard and lockout problem (see previous note)
  1. Lockouts measures exclude the impact of bonus KP Instants.
  2. The lockout period is one minute, after which 1 KP will be allowed. If the 1 KP is provided, another 1 KP will be alowed. A larger adjustment will occur at the end of the day. this allows chests to be taken 1 per minute during the day when a limit is reached.
  3. Shard can be provide to help players to complete shard based levels granting the giver KPs (amount in #5)
  4. Shards given for non-shard based levels grant the receiver get KPs (amount in #5)
  5. The value for gifts within a fellowship is 15, but outside (and to oneself) is just 10. This value applies to both types of gifts.
After some thought on how I might create feeder accounts, some limits on gains are required. In my case, no one is helping me, I just earn a lot of chests from my gifts. I should not be punished for this (rule 1). I also don't think the members of my fellowship should be punished for that (rule 2). Rule 3 helps lower chapter players get the shards they need. Rule 5, discourages the practice of "stealing" shards from other fellowships. Lots of people take offense when large gifts are given to earn shards by someone outside a given fellowship. I think players in a fellowship should get a small but material advantage to reduce the ability of outsiders from competing effectively for shards.
 
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MichaelMichael

Day and Night Trader
Nope, it's quite a nice upgraded if it messes with that scheme, which many players call thievery

Actually, it makes it worse, more KP to give and the value to give within your own fellowship becomes quite limited. So, the only place to give quantity and get a return is OUTSIDE the fellowship. And the ill-gotten gains come in at much higher pace, encouraging greater and greater "Thievery". Also, since shards are now worth 15 each, there is little point to taking the last chest, not when the first chest has become so much more valuable. Besides, a locked player is encouraged to give away KPs to get unlocked. To add insult to injury, the chests keep rolling from chest wins even after being locked to encourage greater and greater "thievery". The limits only stop people from giving KPs not from gaining chests.

Even by your definitions it is far worse. It needs to be fixed. The rules encourage what you and many players consider bad behavior. This new regime, where optimal behavior is taking away the #1 chest of neighbors without limit, is not good game design. I am an optimizer and competitive, so I try to find the best solution to any situation. So that bad behavior is the optimum, which I am not taking to the extreme for two reasons, it isn't fun for me or others - bad game design.

BTW, I do not consider giving 1 KP to anyone bad behavior. If a fellowship only gives 1 to their fellows, they are just too stingy for words and deserve to lose chests. In my fellowship, it takes not less than 40 to gain the top chest and over 100 is not unusual. One should help their fellows. If someone is on their own, all help is appreciated. If one is in a fellowship, they should materially help one another. In the current mania, I out bid an outsider that posted 150 on an AW within our fellowship on principle. But it just proves that there is no shortage of players that will seek the optimum. Pejoratives will not stop the behavior you find objectionable; good game design will.
 
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MichaelMichael

Day and Night Trader
I’m not sure if this was asked already but, is there a distinction between regular KP or the KP generated from a rune shard when giving to an AW? Or, does any type of KP on an AW lockout a player?
Any type KP seems to apply. Once locked Shard KPs cannot be given. Most of the KPs given in my experience today is Shards.
 
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Deborah M

Oh Wise One
I am not taking my AW off road but I definitely see where @Lelanya is coming from. I stopped with the rune shard trades but still get generous folks adding to mine. In the meantime, I don't think it is safe to give any more away until I upgrade what I have ready. With the 2+M mana it takes for any of them it takes a while to catch up. If I give it away now then I won't have anything left when I want to do trades with folks who have extra of what I need. What I have not figured out is how long somebody donating to my AW counts toward the lockout. When I get a couple of them upgraded and want to start trading again is every donation made to me while I am waiting going to count against me? I don't see any way to gauge where I am at any point in the secret count. If there was any way of knowing where I am in this then I wouldn't feel like this is worse than terrible. I know they want to stop pushing and nothing is wrong with that but right now from my perspective I can't even do even trades not knowing what someone may have added that I am unaware of. There has to be some solution other than trying to keep a running total every day for 22 AW. That is not happening because I don't play this game to work!
Aw1_shards.png
 
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