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    Your Elvenar Team

Method to rearrange the city

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
@Dew Spinner, I don't remember if you've said in the thread if you want the sandbox and ability to rotate the buildings. I've inferred that you do from the conversation, but I don't remember you explicitly stating your view. Though I may have missed it. So, I'm asking if you want these two features or not in Elvenar?
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
Also note how the game only lets you pan and zoom, but not tilt and rotate the city view? Yea, because it's a 2D game with 2D image assets (Hint: Sprite Sprite Sprite Sprite Sprite Sprite Sprite). Pan and Zoom does not change a perspective. Tilting and rotating does. You'd need whole sets of different images each time vanishing point changes or moves. Elvenar is NOT a 3D game!
And then there is this...

What enables full rotation of the sprite?
Select "left-right" from the drop-down menu to make the sprite only rotate horizontally. Select "all around" from the drop-down menu to make the sprite flip vertically. Select "don't rotate" from the drop-down menu to make the sprite face only one direction
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
@Dew Spinner, I don't remember if you've said in the thread if you want the sandbox and ability to rotate the buildings. I've inferred that you do from the conversation, but I don't remember you explicitly stating your view. Though I may have missed it. So, I'm asking if you want these two features or not in Elvenar?
I want Inno to give honest, straightforward answers to their player base and stop with the bull.
 

free-spirit

Well-Known Member
And then there is this...

What enables full rotation of the sprite?
Select "left-right" from the drop-down menu to make the sprite only rotate horizontally. Select "all around" from the drop-down menu to make the sprite flip vertically. Select "don't rotate" from the drop-down menu to make the sprite face only one direction
But the buildings aren't programmed like that, if you rotate them you'll just have the base sideways. There's no backside to the designs.

Edited to fix terrible autocorrect
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
I want Inno to give honest, straightforward answers to their player base and stop with the bull.
Okay, you aren't going to answer my question, which is what this thread was supposed to be about. Your choice, much like Inno not answering you. Your desire for answers from Inno seems to be more suited to another thread since it's not about the topic. Maybe you should start one.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
But the buildings aren't programmed like that, if you rotate them you'll just have the base sideways. There's no backside to the designs.

Edited to fix terrible autocorrect
Don't be too sure of that, that could just be more bull from INNO.
But the buildings aren't programmed like that, if you rotate them you'll just have the base sideways. There's no backside to the designs.

Edited to fix terrible autocorrect
They are drawing on the side that we don't see on this vid.
 

defiantoneks

Well-Known Member
Don't be too sure of that, that could just be more bull from INNO.

They are drawing on the side that we don't see on this vid.
that's an avatar. not a game building. so he uses some extra tools to gain a 3d look and symmetry while making a static portrait. do you have a video of them rendering in-game images/buildings?
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
that's an avatar. not a game building. so he uses some extra tools to gain a 3d look and symmetry while making a static portrait. do you have a video of them rendering in-game images/buildings?
So, I guess they can do it. If they can do it with an avatar they can do it with a building. The buildings, I would have to assume, are drawn using the same computer program.
 
Last edited:

defiantoneks

Well-Known Member
So, I guess they can do it. If they can do it with an avatar they can do it with a building. The buildings, I would have to assume, are drawn using the computer program.
"a" computer program. but likely within a template that has preset perspective so all buildings follow the same lines. and not necessarily "that" program.

edit: it also appears he just flips the drawing, not that he works on the "other side". so he does what many artists are trained to do - sometimes even working upside down so that you "see" any errors more easily.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
"a" computer program. but likely within a template that has preset perspective so all buildings follow the same lines. and not necessarily "that" program.
Regardless, crackie posted an Inno vid that said the problem was with the sprites. I proved sprites can be rotated and posted vids from Inno where the Devs say the only reason is how the sun shines (comes from the right) on the building would look funny if they were rotated. Inno has the capability of making the buildings rotate. They just don't want to, which is fine it's their game, that's all they had to say instead of putting out lame excuses that are bull.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Also according to this other video is about the sun shining on the buildings is why they don't allow rotation, never once in these 2 vids does it say rotation can't be done, they just don't want how the suns shines on the buildings to look funny, I knew it was a bunch of malarkey! They don't mention anything about 2D or "Sprites".
This comment only further cements your lack of understanding of how perspective works in art and technology (and possibly reality).

Go take a picture of the front of your house with a camera. Congratulations, you have a 2D image, just like a sprite. Now tell us how you're going to get the left/right/back/top view of your house from that same image. Unless you live in a perfectly symmetrical cube where each side looks exactly the same, you can't. You cannot rotate a 2D image to see a building's side in the same way you can't manipulate an image of the front of your house to look like the side of your house. Similarly, you can't start with an image of the side of the house to get an image of the front or back of the house. You can't see the front and backs of Pacman because he is a 2D profile image that exists in a 2D gaming environment.

Now let's be more outrageous for the heck of it and say you DO live in said perfectly symmetrical cube. If the sun is coming down due west from the front view of the house, then it casts a shadow to the eastern side. That's your photograph of the front of the house. If you view the house from it's left side though, the sun would now be behind you and the shadow in front of you. If you view the house from the back side, the sun is now due east of the house, casting a shadow to the western side. Therefore, even in the outrageous example of living in a perfectly symmetrical cube where every side of the building looks exactly the same, you still can't re-use the image of the front of the house to replicate the other views because the highlights and shadows would not match up anymore. That's what the FoE devs are saying. Your visual perception of how anything is, down to texture, is based on light's ability to bounce off things and into your eyes. Nothing is going to look right if you have one image composed of multiple light sources with highlights and shadows going in every direction, unless you want to play the "Elvenar is a fantasy game and it's possible there are multiple suns in the sky" card. And even in that ridiculous scenario, adding more light sources would mean less shadows so they still won't behave as you'd expect. Either way, @satchmo33 will prob be upset you've ruined the pretty graphics.

It’s mentioned in the Mischievous Therapy Q&A I linked, explained directly by Elvenar devs Timon and Thiago.

Regardless, crackie posted an Inno vid that said the problem was with the sprites. I proved sprites can be rotated and posted vids from Inno where the Devs say the only reason is how the sun shines (comes from the right) on the building would look funny if they were rotated. Inno has the capability of making the buildings rotate. They just don't want to, which is fine it's their game, that's all they had to say instead of putting out lame excuses that are bull.
You've only proved you still don't understand basic perspective. If you change the vanishing point and horizontal line, you get a completely different image. The art department needs to redo every building they've ever put out to make this work. Not a big ask at all! How lame of the devs...
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
This comment only further cements your lack of understanding of how perspective works in art and technology (and possibly reality).

Go take a picture of the front of your house with a camera. Congratulations, you have a 2D image, just like a sprite. Now tell us how you're going to get the left/right/back/top view of your house from that same image. Unless you live in a perfectly symmetrical cube where each side looks exactly the same, you can't. You cannot rotate a 2D image to see a building's side in the same way you can't manipulate an image of the front of your house to look like the side of your house. Similarly, you can't start with an image of the side of the house to get an image of the front or back of the house. You can't see the front and backs of Pacman because he is a 2D profile image that exists in a 2D gaming environment.

Now let's be more outrageous for the heck of it and say you DO live in said perfectly symmetrical cube. If the sun is coming down due west from the front view of the house, then it casts a shadow to the eastern side. That's your photograph of the front of the house. If you view the house from it's left side though, the sun would now be behind you and the shadow in front of you. If you view the house from the back side, the sun is now due east of the house, casting a shadow to the western side. Therefore, even in the outrageous example of living in a perfectly symmetrical cube where every side of the building looks exactly the same, you still can't re-use the image of the front of the house to replicate the other views because the highlights and shadows would not match up anymore. That's what the FoE devs are saying. Your visual perception of how anything is, down to texture, is based on light's ability to bounce off things and into your eyes. Nothing is going to look right if you have one image composed of multiple light sources with highlights and shadows going in every direction, unless you want to play the "Elvenar is a fantasy game and it's possible there are multiple suns in the sky" card. And even in that ridiculous scenario, adding more light sources would mean less shadows so they still won't behave as you'd expect. Either way, @satchmo33 will prob be upset you've ruined the pretty graphics.

It’s mentioned in the Mischievous Therapy Q&A I linked, explained directly by Elvenar devs Timon and Thiago.


You've only proved you still don't understand basic perspective. If you change the vanishing point and horizontal line, you get a completely different image. The art department needs to redo every building they've ever put out to make this work. Not a big ask at all! How lame of the devs...
I already proved that sprites can be rotated, they are not stationary.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
This comment only further cements your lack of understanding of how perspective works in art and technology (and possibly reality).

Go take a picture of the front of your house with a camera. Congratulations, you have a 2D image, just like a sprite. Now tell us how you're going to get the left/right/back/top view of your house from that same image. Unless you live in a perfectly symmetrical cube where each side looks exactly the same, you can't. You cannot rotate a 2D image to see a building's side in the same way you can't manipulate an image of the front of your house to look like the side of your house. Similarly, you can't start with an image of the side of the house to get an image of the front or back of the house. You can't see the front and backs of Pacman because he is a 2D profile image that exists in a 2D gaming environment.

Now let's be more outrageous for the heck of it and say you DO live in said perfectly symmetrical cube. If the sun is coming down due west from the front view of the house, then it casts a shadow to the eastern side. That's your photograph of the front of the house. If you view the house from it's left side though, the sun would now be behind you and the shadow in front of you. If you view the house from the back side, the sun is now due east of the house, casting a shadow to the western side. Therefore, even in the outrageous example of living in a perfectly symmetrical cube where every side of the building looks exactly the same, you still can't re-use the image of the front of the house to replicate the other views because the highlights and shadows would not match up anymore. That's what the FoE devs are saying. Your visual perception of how anything is, down to texture, is based on light's ability to bounce off things and into your eyes. Nothing is going to look right if you have one image composed of multiple light sources with highlights and shadows going in every direction, unless you want to play the "Elvenar is a fantasy game and it's possible there are multiple suns in the sky" card. And even in that ridiculous scenario, adding more light sources would mean less shadows so they still won't behave as you'd expect. Either way, @satchmo33 will prob be upset you've ruined the pretty graphics.

It’s mentioned in the Mischievous Therapy Q&A I linked, explained directly by Elvenar devs Timon and Thiago.


You've only proved you still don't understand basic perspective. If you change the vanishing point and horizontal line, you get a completely different image. The art department needs to redo every building they've ever put out to make this work. Not a big ask at all! How lame of the devs...
  • 3D Focus. Convert & interpreting 2D concepts into textured 3D models and creating pre-render 3D assets like buildings & props.
 

free-spirit

Well-Known Member

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
I already proved that sprites can be rotated, they are not stationary.
I don't understand half of the techy things folks talk about in here, but even I've been able to follow the 2D vs 3D explanations given here. Maybe I'm old, but my brain imagines holding a physical photo of the front of the house vs holding an actual replica of a house in your hand. Rotating one of those objects lets you see all sides (the 3D replica). Rotating the other shows you the front of the house, 4 very slim blank sides and one blank side that's the same size as the front of the house (the 2D photo or sprite). Yes, they can rotate the sprites for whatever artwork they are using. But, I don't think that's going to look like folks think it will. Unless there's a benefit to laying the building on its side or upside down even? For what?
 
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