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    Your Elvenar Team

Method to rearrange the city

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
One would still need a backside to the graphics, which the developers have already said they never designed in a live Q&A ages ago. But persist in trying to convince everyone that they could do the impossible if only they wanted to bad enough.
There is a difference between not drawing a back side and not having the capability to rotate the building. Also there would be little need for a 3D artist to draw 3D buildings and props, if you are not drawing all of the sides of a building or prop.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
I don't understand half of the techy things folks talk about in here, but even I've been able to follow the 2D vs 3D explanations given here. Maybe I'm old, but my brain imagines holding a physical photo of the front of the house vs holding an actual replica of a house in your hand. Rotating one of those objects lets you see all sides (the 3D replica). Rotating the other shows you the front of the house, 4 very slim blank sides and one blank side that's the same size as the front of the house (the 2D photo or sprite). Yes, they can rotate the sprites for whatever artwork they are using. But, I don't think that's going to look like folks think it will. Unless there's a benefit to laying the building on its side or upside down even? For what?
Inno advertises for 3D artists to draw 3D buildings and props.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
I have a 2D master map of my city built in my Minecraft console game that I use when I want to spend days on trying different layout's.
I read about someone else using Legos. :)

I tried using cookies. But, 20 pounds later I found I kept losing buildings. They just seemed to disappear.

AJ
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
Do you know what happens when you render out your 3D environment in apps like in Blender, 3Ds Max, and Maya? You get a 2D image. :rolleyes:
The bottom line is that they have the CAPABILITY to rotate these building...They don't want to add that feature to the game and that is all they should have said..."no, we don't want to add that feature to the game" Players would rather be disappointed then handed a bunch of bull.
 

Queen of Snacks

Snack Hoarder
The bottom line is that they have the CAPABILITY to rotate these building...They don't want to add that feature to the game and that is all they should have said..."no, we don't want to add that feature to the game" Players would rather be disappointed then handed a bunch of bull.

The amount of time to add this feature would be astronomical, so it will never be implemented.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
The amount of time to add this feature would be astronomical, so it will never be implemented.
Is the reason that they implemented it in Rise of Cultures because it would be easier to do from the start of a game rather than after the game has been out for awhile?
 

Queen of Snacks

Snack Hoarder
Is the reason that they implemented it in Rise of Cultures because it would be easier to do from the start of a game rather than after the game has been out for awhile?
Yes, Rise of Cultures is a different game, with different developers and a different plan for how it is played. Elvenar has always had space optimization and city planning as key components, so it was never planned to allow rotating the buildings. Adding this type of functionality well after a game is developed is very complicated. For the amount of time and effort it would take (every item in your city would need to be redrawn and recoded), It just is not practical, even if the devs actually wanted to do it.
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
Is the reason that they implemented it in Rise of Cultures because it would be easier to do from the start of a game rather than after the game has been out for awhile?
Sigh, one more time into the fray. As a programmer with 43 years experience, yes. It is easier. Emphatically yes. But I'm not going to tell you why. You'd just say I'm wrong for some obscure reason. BTW, there is some 3D-ish in Elvenar. the troops in the arena can face in any of 6 directions. (new can of worms opened.)
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
Sigh, one more time into the fray. As a programmer with 43 years experience, yes. It is easier. Emphatically yes. But I'm not going to tell you why. You'd just say I'm wrong for some obscure reason. BTW, there is some 3D-ish in Elvenar. the troops in the arena can face in any of 6 directions. (new can of worms opened.)
This doesn't seem too complicated but I am sure you will say I'm wrong for some obscure reason. This is from the EN Forum.

We're all overcomplicating it.

All our buildings have rectangular footprints. Functionally, building rotations only have to swap a 3x4 footprint for a 4x3 footprint. We really don't need it to have views from all four sides, especially since most buildings don't really have interesting views from behind. Who wants to have a Basic Manu where you're looking at the back of the head?

That said, I can implement the footprint flipping without adding any additional work on the part of the 2D graphic artists... Simply left-right reverse the existing graphics on any building. Take a 2x4 Mana Sawmill where the animation has giant nuts(?) rolling down upper right to lower left, reverse the graphic and it is a 4x2 Mana Sawmill rolling down upper left to lower right.
 

Queen of Snacks

Snack Hoarder
This doesn't seem too complicated but I am sure you will say I'm wrong for some obscure reason. This is from the EN Forum.

We're all overcomplicating it.

All our buildings have rectangular footprints. Functionally, building rotations only have to swap a 3x4 footprint for a 4x3 footprint. We really don't need it to have views from all four sides, especially since most buildings don't really have interesting views from behind. Who wants to have a Basic Manu where you're looking at the back of the head?

That said, I can implement the footprint flipping without adding any additional work on the part of the 2D graphic artists... Simply left-right reverse the existing graphics on any building. Take a 2x4 Mana Sawmill where the animation has giant nuts(?) rolling down upper right to lower left, reverse the graphic and it is a 4x2 Mana Sawmill rolling down upper left to lower right.
This is rather too simplistic a view. Aside from the programming involved just to include such a feature, which was never in the developers' plan for Elvenar to start with, and as far as I know, still is not, the buildings are angled in such a way that you can't just "flip" them around. Also programming something like this which seems "easy" is incredibly complex as it affects so many things.
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
It really is easiest to just play the games you like. I see no reason to go play FOE and complain about it not being Elvenar.
Nobody has said that they want Elvenar to be FoE. We are just discussing 1 particular game mechanic.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Nobody has said that they want Elvenar to be FoE. We are just discussing 1 particular game mechanic.
In which the devs of BOTH games have emphatically and repeatedly said would not happen and why.

The bottom line is that they have the CAPABILITY to rotate these building...They don't want to add that feature to the game and that is all they should have said..."no, we don't want to add that feature to the game" Players would rather be disappointed then handed a bunch of bull.
Yes, in the same way we all have the capability to tear down our homes and build a new one too, but will most of us exercise that capability? Unlikely. Cause rewriting the underlying game architecture and redoing the graphics of every building ever released, when the devs and art dept could be working on something else far more productive, would most definitely not affect the game's real $bottom line$ at all... :rolleyes:

In the same Mischievous Therapy Q&A video, they also discussed the prospects of browser players getting a hide building mode like mobile and the complications involved. The browser is tied to the limits of HTML5 and the mobile game is not, even though it's the same darn game. But...but...they're just hiding the darn buildings! They don't even have to show any of the buildings from any perspective! Mobile already has it! How hard can that possibly be? Soooooooooo easy!

Sigh, one more time into the fray. As a programmer with 43 years experience, yes. It is easier. Emphatically yes. But I'm not going to tell you why. You'd just say I'm wrong for some obscure reason. BTW, there is some 3D-ish in Elvenar. the troops in the arena can face in any of 6 directions. (new can of worms opened.)
I feel this strongly. I only have a masters degree in the science behind how computer images are generated, but here is a video of a random person painting a portrait to prove your understanding of 3D perspective is wrong...
 

Dew Spinner

Well-Known Member
In which the devs of BOTH games have emphatically and repeatedly said would not happen and why.


Yes, in the same way we all have the capability to tear down our homes and build a new one too, but will most of us exercise that capability? Unlikely. Cause rewriting the underlying game architecture and redoing the graphics of every building ever released, when the devs and art dept could be working on something else far more productive, would most definitely not affect the game's real $bottom line$ at all... :rolleyes:

In the same Mischievous Therapy Q&A video, they also discussed the prospects of browser players getting a hide building mode like mobile and the complications involved. The browser is tied to the limits of HTML5 and the mobile game is not, even though it's the same darn game. But...but...they're just hiding the darn buildings! They don't even have to show any of the buildings from any perspective! Mobile already has it! How hard can that possibly be? Soooooooooo easy!


I feel this strongly. I only have a masters degree in the science behind how computer images are generated, but here is a video of a random person painting a portrait to prove your understanding of 3D perspective is wrong...
My position was always that it could be done and if they did not want to do it then that is all they had to say, I rest my case.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
If they just don't want to do it then that is what they should come out and say, instead of all the bull.
They have given the following reasons in terviews I've watched:
1. The puzzle is an integral part of this game, and one that sets it apart from others.​
2. if you flip an image sideways (like a mirror) then the shadows and lighting no longer align​
3. the "backside" of buildings don't exist. They are mostly 2D drawings​


One of the best decisions inno ever made was not allowing the rotating of buildings.
As a city in Elvenar progresses through the chapters core buildings such as the residences, workshops, and factories alternate orientation.
This forces players to completely redesign their city layout frequently rather than just expand with each chapter.
Keeps things interesting and refreshing.
 
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