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    Your Elvenar Team

Other- Mythic Dawn requests incremental extra rewards in the chests earned beyond the 10th

bretonrae

Member
Hello, everyone. Thanks for reading and considering our suggestion here. We have felt rather let down in pushing further than 10 chests in Tournaments. I believe that incrementally increasing the rewards in chests past the 10th would make Tournaments much more exciting and that doing this would make Fellowships feel more competitive instead of half of us just satisfied at reaching chest 10 and not doing anything else to achieve more (we are capable of achieving more) and just having the same prizes for chests after 10 doesn't spur competitive work for us. There is a big problem when players(and especially with high rank players) just barely do what has to be done to get number 10. Then, they just quit. Is there a game problem created by adding some new reward in each additional chest after the 10th?
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
I'm confused. Each additional chest gets you another KP instant, another Royal restoration spell, and 4000 score points for the fellowship. Are you not receiving those, or are you asking that they be made larger? If the latter, i think you'll face resistance from those who think that the system already offers too many rewards for the largest and most active groups. it's a rare week when we don't get 15+ chests in the tournament and I don't feel we need more incentive.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I really like getting the extra royal restorations. When we get 13 chests in a week, I get 3 restorations. That's 156 restorations per year ... you can do a lot with that, not counting the time instants and points (which are useful, too).

My incentive is always to do the best I can to get those extra rrs. I don't know of anyone in my fellowship who stops adding points after we get to the 10th chest.

There are a lot of things that need fixing ... particularly the FAs. I just don't think the tourney is one of them. But each person has their own faves, so I'm not trying to put you down. :)
 

Siorse

Active Member
My incentive is always to do the best I can to get those extra rrs. I don't know of anyone in my fellowship who stops adding points after we get to the 10th chest.
Each additional chest gets you another KP instant, another Royal restoration spell, and 4000 score points for the fellowship

Ok..., but I think there should be a little more as the number of chests increase
Darielle-Unfortunately, I do notice in my FS that contributions slow down after we reach the 10th chest (and not just my current FS).

Yes, Ashrem, those are all a reward for each additional chest.
But the requirement to get each successive chest goes up so I've wondered since I started tourneying why the rewards don't as well?

Bretonrae, I agree with you that the rewards should correlate to the effort put in and perhaps that would incentivise members to NOT just think "well, we got the BP, we're good, no real reason to continue".
 

Siorse

Active Member
If the latter, i think you'll face resistance from those who think that the system already offers too many rewards for the largest and most active groups.
In my opinion, that's just sour grapes.

If a group is willing to put in the time and effort then they deserve the rewards. If someone isn't then they really have no reason to complain-unless of course they're of the opinion that rewards should just be handed to them.

In which case I can recommend they go play World of Warcraft.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
In my opinion, that's just sour grapes.

If a group is willing to put in the time and effort then they deserve the rewards. If someone isn't then they really have no reason to complain-unless of course they're of the opinion that rewards should just be handed to them.
So me saying that I think my group already gets too much extra stuff is sour grapes? How do you reach that conclusion?
 

Myne

Oh Wise One
Maybe, a suggestion from OP on what they consider to be commensurate rewards for the effort? The request/suggestion is highly unlikely to go anywhere without suggestions for possible solutions. REMEMBER...we have been bitten before by the INNO hand for asking for change without serious consideration. They have a tendency to take things from us for every granted wish.
 

Siorse

Active Member
So me saying that I think my group already gets too much extra stuff is sour grapes? How do you reach that conclusion?
I'm sorry-I misunderstood what you were saying.

I had assumed-(and we all know what that gets you lol)-that you were talking about the people/groups who are NOT putting in the effort and getting the rewards complaining about the people who do and are.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
Perhaps these "extra" rewards, after the 10th chest, should be tied to individual scores? If I do 8k and get us to the 13th chest and a teammate does 1k, maybe there's a bonus for my effort. Maybe it starts at the highest ranked player that week or is set by the percentage of points that player contributed and diminishes as you go down in the ranking. I'm thinking out loud here. You do get the individual prizes and if you award too much to the whole group it does seem to be uneven since the ones at the bottom (for whatever reason, it need not be laziness) didn't contribute as much. But it's also true that you put in more effort to get to the 15th chest from the 14th than from the 13th to the 14th, so there should be a little bit more. Just some ideas.

AJ
 

bretonrae

Member
Perhaps these "extra" rewards, after the 10th chest, should be tied to individual scores? If I do 8k and get us to the 13th chest and a teammate does 1k, maybe there's a bonus for my effort. Maybe it starts at the highest ranked player that week or is set by the percentage of points that player contributed and diminishes as you go down in the ranking. I'm thinking out loud here. You do get the individual prizes and if you award too much to the whole group it does seem to be uneven since the ones at the bottom (for whatever reason, it need not be laziness) didn't contribute as much. But it's also true that you put in more effort to get to the 15th chest from the 14th than from the 13th to the 14th, so there should be a little bit more. Just some ideas.

AJ
Nice!
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Perhaps these "extra" rewards, after the 10th chest, should be tied to individual scores?
People getting enough points to carry their FS past ten chests are already getting hundreds of KP, Runes, and Relics. What does more stuff do to make the game more interesting? Should they just give us enough KP to finish the game every tournament and we can start over again?

Per the other thread on the subject, the devs have been clear that they gave us extra chests after 10 but have no intention of making them rich enough that anyone feels like they have to do them. There's already significant value in getting more than 5000 points and there are already several dozen fellowships (across the various servers) getting 19 chests every week. This offers nothing for players in the first eight chapters, because they can't possibly contribute enough points to pull their weight in a 19 chest pursuit. It misses on the point two of the four points for consideration for ideas.

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ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
People getting enough points to carry their FS past ten chests are already getting hundreds of KP, Runes, and Relics. What does more stuff do to make the game more interesting? Should they just give us enough KP to finish the game every tournament and we can start over again?

Per the other thread on the subject, the devs have been clear that they gave us extra chests after 10 but have no intention of making them rich enough that anyone feels like they have to do them. There's already significant value in getting more than 5000 points and there are already several dozen fellowships (across the various servers) getting 19 chests every week. This offers nothing for players in the first eight chapters, because they can't possibly contribute enough points to pull their weight in a 19 chest pursuit. It misses on the point two of the four points for consideration for ideas.

View attachment 15746
I do agree with you on this to a high degree, but also have to play the devil's advocate a bit. I'm not sure this idea can't "benefit players from all markets and all stages of the game," with a caveat.

Let's admit the fact that being big earns you more in many, many ways. The question is how big you have to be to get the benefit of the 11th to 19th chests. Take, for instance, the 13th chest. Is is possible for all players to reap the benefits of extra rewards for personal effort at that level? I find it interesting to see people in chapter six doing several thousand tournament points each week -- in essence punching way above their weight -- and somehow it appears someone in chapter 12 can't do the same relative to their size, and reap the benefits of being at the top of the 13th chest effort? And where does this punching above their weight end? I can do 15000 points in Chapter 15. Would that be enough to get some reward in a 19 chest fs? Not sure, but probably put you in the top 50% of the roster for that week. Thus, it's possible this change could benefit all. Not that it will, but then if that were the rule then the playing field needs to be re-leveled in a lot of ways. And that's the caveat.

Since the Spire and tournament themselves don't "benefit players from all markets and all stages of the game," because early players can't even play those parts of the game, there must be some "wiggle room" here. Not enough perhaps, but I did have to point it out. In any case, as my suggestion said, it's not about the formula at this point but about if it can be applied to some aspect of the game. Visitation is just an example.

Thanks for the reply. It was, and is, a good and thoughtful one.

AJ
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
The question is how big you have to be to get the benefit of the 11th to 19th chests. Take, for instance, the 13th chest. Is is possible for all players to reap the benefits of extra rewards for personal effort at that level? I find it interesting to see people in chapter six doing several thousand tournament points each week -- in essence punching way above their weight -- and somehow it appears someone in chapter 12 can't do the same relative to their size, and reap the benefits of being at the top of the 13th chest effort?
As long as a city has enough open provinces to do several thousand in a tournament, the return on investment for larger cities is greater if they funnel goods to the smaller plays for tournament use. Small cites can do all six rounds in province 15 for my goods requirement for one encounter in province 15
And where does this punching above their weight end? I can do 15000 points in Chapter 15. Would that be enough to get some reward in a 19 chest fs? Not sure, but probably put you in the top 50% of the roster for that week. Thus, it's possible this change could benefit all. Not that it will, but then if that were the rule then the playing field needs to be re-leveled in a lot of ways. And that's the caveat.
Yes. 25 players only need about 7,000 each, so 15 thousand more than covers a FS member who gets nothing.




Since the Spire and tournament themselves don't "benefit players from all markets and all stages of the game," because early players can't even play those parts of the game, there must be some "wiggle room" here. Not enough perhaps, but I did have to point it out. In any case, as my suggestion said, it's not about the formula at this point but about if it can be applied to some aspect of the game. Visitation is just an example.
As with most things, the developers do specific things to entice new players in, others to encourage them to stay, and others to entice long-term players to stay. Every goody that is given to large, mature cities is cutting into diamond sales. If they don't need to do it, why would they bother? Players who are already advanced in the game are probably already content (on average) so them asking for more stuff is probably a black hole from a commercial perspective.

Them asking for things to be enticing to all stages players is a more politic way to avoid saying "No. This idea, which gives free stuff to people who have already stuck around for more than a year, will cut into diamond sales."

I can only speak for how I think. If the game were mine, a player-generated idea would need to make the game more interesting and encourage people to spend diamonds, not give them more ways to avoid spending diamonds.

Now if an idea was to let chest 19 unlock an extra level of the spire for the following week for players who achieve it, or unlock some other mini-game, developer-I would be all over that.
 

bretonrae

Member
Hmnn....it would seem to me that the incremental
extra rewards in the chests past ten would certainly encourage spending more diamonds in people and Fellowships who are stretching themselves to get them, no?
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Hmnn....it would seem to me that the incremental
extra rewards in the chests past ten would certainly encourage spending more diamonds in people and Fellowships who are stretching themselves to get them, no?
That misses the part where Inno specifically said they don't want players ever feeling obliged to do more than ten chests, and separately they have identified tournament fatigue as a problem with retaining players in later chapters. Making someone feel like they need to buy more diamonds is not the same thing as not wanting them to buy fewer diamonds. One of those things causes more player frustration than the other.

Those of us who participate in the forums have a distorted view of what the player base thinks because the forums disproportionately attract players who are unhappy. Inno has won international business awards for the quality and quantity of their game statistics. They know better than we think what their players like and don't like. That's one of the reasons I'm often negative on ideas that players support on the forums. Thinking that 20 people voted for something on the forums means the developers are going to do it seems frightfully optimistic.
 

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
Ashrem is right, y'all, the Devs have said plainly, that they added the concept of extra chests with small rewards, because a lot of players over the entire market, asked for this. But it is not mandatory in any fashion, nor considered a target goal, to encourage players to go beyond 10.

I am thinking it was an early Thiago video, maybe the first one after Bernard vanished. If I were not distracted with FA information, I would go looking for it.
 

bretonrae

Member
Ha! The Spire setup makes a mockery of what is being bandied about as the business plan you suggest INNO has set in stone.
 

bretonrae

Member
So thanks to everyone on your opinions. Let's just shut it down. We don't really care that much about this idea anyway actually. It was just a thought to solve a problem we found affected our own Fellowship. Arguing isn't fun you know. But then, each of us are always right in our eyes, of course. Regardless of facts...
 
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