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    Your Elvenar Team

Poor game design for how easy it is to advance and lose the questline

edeba

Well-Known Member
I've have played a few games with questlines and this is the only game that you can "lose" it in the sense that where you get stuck can mean having to rebuild an entire guest race, which isn't reasonable and is a terrible design flaw. Rebuilding a guest race is no minor thing. For me, I was already using the space with the orc race when the fairy guest race quests started to appear. With good game design, this kind of thing simply just should not happen. With good game design there would be checks build in, or the quests would convert to declinable once the scouting tech of the next chapter is complete.

A difference in the design is the other games I've played have 3-5 of the quests that you can access/do by scrolling through the quests. So, if you've completed a requirement, it gets ticked and goes away. I've had other games with 3 or 4 quests in the same "event" waiting for something. This game doesn't do that, yet this idea would probably fix this problem.
 

DeletedUser7421

Guest
Yes. I have two of my cities stuck....way far back in the quest line, and I'm forced to find room and building time to re-complete trivial tasks that I've already completed many times. Not a real good design, unless it's only $$ the developers care about.
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
I agree the quests should be redesigned to avoid problems (like changing "build xx building" to "have xx building" etc) and perhaps more of them should give you the option to decline. But I don't understand how one gets so far behind in the quests that you're more than a chapter behind.

The only way this happens is if a player ignores the main quest line for months.

I started an earlier thread here about this issue with ideas for the developers to change a few aspects of the quests to make them more appealing and encourage players to keep up with them.
 
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DeletedUser7421

Guest
Its because if you progress rather rapidly, and yes - ignore the non declinable quest for a few weeks to keep that rapid progression going.... pretty soon you're too far behind to even bother completing the non declinable quest until 'later', which puts you even further behind.

......And fairly quickly 'later', becomes never, because it's just too stupid and tedious to dedicate 1 out of only 2 builders, plus a big slot of land to rebuild something that no longer adds any value to your city.

I've chosen to simply continue ignoring the quests, because they are too tedious and a waste of time and resources to re-do, and in many cases..... a total waste of time and resources to do in the first place.
~~so long quests.
 
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SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
@Juliandra Ari
I don't know if you are a free player or not, but there is a quest at the end of chapter 6+ that gives 200 diamonds.
It's not much if you already buy diamonds, but for a free player 1200 diamonds is a pretty big deal.
 

DeletedUser7421

Guest
200 or 1200? - I cant find a single thing I want to do with 200 diamonds, nor with 200 more. 1200....there are several things Id love to do with 1200 diamonds.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
200 each quest, 1 quest per chapter starting with chapter 6, so 1200 total.
Add on to that 200 more diamonds for opening the chest at the end of each chapter and it's 2200 (no chest at the end of chapter 11 yet)
 

DeletedUser1766

Guest
As someone who has always done my quests, every single one I am surprised that there are so many people who do not do them. I did not decline a quest until I had reached the final chapter, as it was then and was not able to upgrade as there was nothing to upgrade so I had to start declining quests until I hit one I could do. Main quests have always been something I followed closely. However, I agree that if you have chosen to ignore them it is hard to go back but inno says that they cannot fix this. People must complete all the story quests to progress.
 

DeletedUser7421

Guest
As someone who has always done my quests, every single one I am surprised that there are so many people who do not do them.

Actually:
I'm surprised when people do follow the quests - why do people choose to do a quest that doesn't benefit their city growth, and often hinders it - putting them into a position where they are almost forced to buy diamonds, or quit?

However, I agree that if you have chosen to ignore them it is hard to go back but inno says that they cannot fix this. People must complete all the story quests to progress.

Actually:
"In May,<May 2nd, 2017> the Swedish entertainment company Modern Times Group invests EUR 82.6 million to increase its shareholding in InnoGames to 51%.
-->Sort of ties the developers hands, don't you think?

@Juliandra Ari
If you haven't reached that quest yet, check to make sure support is right, as I've seen them be wrong about quests before.

Thanks: I will Soggy. If I have to rebuild the portal that is currently at lvl 2, I will once again say:
~~so long to the quests, and inno can keep their diamonds, and get zero from me. Anyways, they're getting zero from me because there is too much pressure applied to buy diamonds - I'd rather enjoy the game by growing my cities and fellowship peacefully, than feel the aggravation and pressure to buy diamonds by following the quests anyways.

Maybe a good fellowship name would be:
"Quest Free"
 
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Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
Actually: I'm surprised when people do follow the quests - why do people choose to do a quest that doesn't benefit their city growth, and often hinders it - putting them into a position where they are almost forced to buy diamonds, or quit?
90% of the quests are things we're doing anyway. In that sense, it's free coins and supplies. I agree they should be tweaked and offer rewards other than just coins and supplies to encourage more engagement though. A simple change in the build quests from "build" to "have" solves most of the problems unless a player is a full chapter ahead and already deleted their portal.

I disagree that the game forces you to buy diamonds. I've gotten by pretty much without buying diamonds (other than for convenience sake like a 3rd builder). I have no magic buildings or diamond culture buildings and after only 7 months of playing the game, I am almost done with the orc chapter. Event prizes from the winter, phoenix and herd events made up the culture/population gaps easily.
 

DeletedUser7421

Guest
TY SS, my city is now humming along again, in a semi-organized fashion, void of all the culture buildings that I was forced to find room for so I could catch up on the storyline quests.

In my opinion - this is where the quests get dropped most easily: When you have better culture buildings or an excess of supplies, it's terribly difficult to allocate much needed space, a builder, and time - all to build a culture building you don't want or need.

Building culture buildings needs to be declinable - it would prevent a lot of stalling in the storyline quests.
 
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DeletedUser7370

Guest
The non-declinable tasks are generally guidance for progressing in the game
A lot of you seem to look at them as some sort of punishment
Guidance at how to do things as slowly as possible. I recently started fairies. My quest progress stopped at research lampions because it makes more sense to proceed with developing the guest race buildings first. Immediately after researching the day and night farms I researched the lampions. After a little progress on the quests I am being MISGUIDED to produce sunflowers, and it is a complete waste. I already have all my day farms up to level 4 and have stockpiled the 30,000 sunflowers required to upgrade the portal to L4 and upgrade all my roads to fairy.

The story line quests should be organized as a list so you can deal with many of them in whatever order you want. Maybe like 10 on the list at a time with some unlocking specific others, but generally finishing something just brings another up on the list.

And when a person researches the next chapter's advanced scouts then all the previous chapter's quests should made able to be declined.
 
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SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Building culture buildings needs to be declinable - it would prevent a lot of stalling in the storyline quests.
The non-declinable tasks are generally guidance for progressing in the game
A lot of you seem to look at them as some sort of punishment
On all 3 of my cities I have kept up with the quests since the beginning just as for something to do. I also built and immediately destroyed the "ancient grounds" culture building every time I reached that quest. I just never needed it as I always had enough culture.

Like @TedGrau I think the quests should be accessible earlier, preferably many at the same time. Most guest races have quests to make the building upgrade materials, and if you are an active fast player you usually have everything maxed out by the time you unlock that quest.
 

DeletedUser7421

Guest
Generally, guidance is declinable :) ...especially if you need to build a culture building that gives less culture per square than existing culture buildings - and no land to build it on.

The storyline quests DO feel like they are either not well thought out, OR well enough thought out to box people into using real $$ to expand land, add builders and generally cause sufficient frustration to spend $$ - not tactics I appreciate nor support.

It took quite a lot of determination to juggle and find space in a full city, to build (and immediately tear down) a 5x4 and a 5x6 culture building that I didn`t want, need or have space for. I didn`t enjoy it one bit, and it felt soo much like an arm twist to spend $$ on land expansions that it`s left a bad impression on my experience with this game.

Like @TedGrau I think the quests should be accessible earlier, preferably many at the same time.

Agreed.

when a person researches the next chapter's advanced scouts then all the previous chapter's quests should made able to be declined

Agreed.

Sometimes, guidance feels like punishment. Not just in Elvenar.

More people will choose to leave a game that they feel punished in - not spend $$.

When a game loses a majority of its free players to frustration - it certainly won`t be capable of attracting nor keeping paying players.

While some players will sometimes pay real $$ to avoid frustration initially - if the frustration continues: paying players tolerance for frustration is even lower than free players tolerance.

You`ll have ``gained a dollar but lost a smile.``
 
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DeletedUser7421

Guest
Providing valid enticements that don`t cause frustration encourages people to use real $$.

On the other hand, initially creating frustration to promote the use of real $$ quickly sorts out those who are willing and able to use real $$, and those who will end up leaving because they either don`t have the ability, or refuse to spend real $$
- Ongoing frustration causes people to leave, not spend $$ - and especially not more $$.

If a game is still causing frustration to gain $$ after chapter 2 - it needs to re-think its strategy.
 
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