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    Your Elvenar Team

Improve/fix cross tier trades

Pheryll

Set Designer
Take a look at the Travelling merchant that you can now make in crafting.
When they were first released they had the same price. Only after I mockingly called them out on their 16:4:1 ratio regarding them did they tweak it, and still the TM3 costs 1.4x the TM1 .

The traveling merchant is nowhere close to the high production of the set buildings. And disenchanting a building into fragments is the same cost per square, whether it be tier 3 goods, tier 1 goods, or a magic residence. Look at the winter market set. The ratio for those productions per square are 1.19 : 1.11 : 1. Given the way building costs are going every three guest race chapters, it wouldn't surprise me if the manufactories are headed towards an almost even 1:1:1 ratio as well.
 

DeletedUser20255

Guest
I have read a lot of the posts on this subject. I'm comparatively new and not in any way holding myself out to be an expert but I haven't seen it summarized in a way that makes sense to me. So I'm gonna summarize it and invite your critique. I want to learn.

So. I'm currently a believer in the 5:2:1 ratio. I will accept trades that use this ratio (doesn't happen often) or even if close I will accept them within my FS.
I will place CT trades using the same ratio but only in the downward direction.. offer T3 for T1. This gives a 3 star and everyone seems happy. However, when I want to place them in the other direction..offer T1 for T3 I have to either cheat myself or have less than a 2 star deal which annoys my AM.

Too often I see 3 star trades that are only slightly better than 16:4:1 and all act as if they are fair. When i try to point out the 5:2:1 ratio I end up hurting feelings.

So, if I'm right so far I'm gonna suggest to my AM that CT trades should use the 5:2:1 ratio and ignore the stars.
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
If you have decent, balanced production you basically don't need cross-tier trades. There might be the odd time when you feel it might help due to "over-spending" in a certain tier, however if your goods balance is enough the odd random cross-tier trade won't bother you, even at the in game 2 star value. You can also use mm spells to correct any such imbalance.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
I will place CT trades using the same ratio but only in the downward direction.. offer T3 for T1. This gives a 3 star and everyone seems happy. However, when I want to place them in the other direction..offer T1 for T3 I have to either cheat myself or have less than a 2 star deal which annoys my AM.

Are you sure you are putting in those trades correctly? Reversing the numbers should still keep it a two-star trade. For example, offering 16k T1 for 1k T3 or 1k T3 for 16k T1 are both two-star trades. The game auto-fills in the two-star amount for you when you choose the two goods and choose the amount you are offering, unless you are manually adjusting one of the amounts in the wrong direction and making it a one-star trade by accident.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Are you sure you are putting in those trades correctly? Reversing the numbers should still keep it a two-star trade.
The point of much of the conversation is that, when it comes to cross-tier trades, what the programmers consider two-star trades are rally not, as far as most experienced players are concerned.

Because of the amount of land required to support lower tiers, the only way to be fair requires that the trades be less than two star in one direction, by the game's current formulae
 

Vergazi

Well-Known Member
Everyone has their own definition of what 'fair' is, so as a result we come up with rules that all go by and all dislike. They make no one happy. Only fair trades in the FS. Only 2 star trades in the FS. Blah, blah, blah... So...the game has a built-in definition of what fair is...so what. I'll bet well-developed, advanced cities have many advantages that lower level cities don't have. The reverse is also true I would think. Just let the market forces do their thing in Elvanar as they do in the real world. If people refuse to trade because other ppl want too much for what they have then they will soon realize that and change their behavior.

btw - i posted a thread somewhere about an auctioneer idea. That might in some way help deal with this issue of fairness.
 

SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
@Vergazi

The market does not "correct itself" in elvenar for a few reasons, but first and foremost is the fact that the developers did not consider how much space and time it takes to make each tier of goods and since they set what is a 2-star trade many players are reluctant to change or even ignorant of the imbalance.
Combined with a high turnover, the problem persists.
 
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Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
The point of much of the conversation is that, when it comes to cross-tier trades, what the programmers consider two-star trades are rally not, as far as most experienced players are concerned.

Because of the amount of land required to support lower tiers, the only way to be fair requires that the trades be less than two star in one direction, by the game's current formulae

Then why does everyone who complains about the star system say that cross-tier 3-star trades up to a certain ratio, both up and down, are fine and fair? And say nothing about them having to be 1-star to be fair?

@Vergazi

The market does not "correct itself" in elvenar for a few reasons, but first and foremost is the fact that the developers did not consider how much space and time it takes to make each tier of goods and since they set what is a 2-star trade many players are reluctant to change or even ignorant of the imbalance.
Combined with a high turnover, the problem persists.

The vast majority of players probably do not have this obsessive optimization thing for every square of their city and do not care about squeezing out every single bit of goods they can.
 

Ashrem

Oh Wise One
Then why does everyone who complains about the star system say that cross-tier 3-star trades up to a certain ratio, both up and down, are fine and fair? And say nothing about them having to be 1-star to be fair?
It does get said. It also gets implied, in that we keep imploring the developers to stop indicating what's fair and what isn't, or to change it. Because as long as the game keeps telling players x:y is fair, it's pretty close to impossible to get the player base to use something else.
The vast majority of players probably do not have this obsessive optimization thing for every square of their city and do not care about squeezing out every single bit of goods they can.
There's nothing particularly obsessive about it. We're trying to convince the programmers to stop being that cattle rancher who says he can raise 100k head of cattle on 100 acres, because that's the size of his house and barn and outbuildings, and doesn't include the 40k acres of grazing pasture he needs to keep them fed.

Just let the market forces do their thing in Elvanar as they do in the real world.
Have you ever lived in a real world where the government tells you every time you enter the stores what the fair price of goods is?

Elvenar isn't a free market. The players can't turn it into one.
 

Vergazi

Well-Known Member
Then why does everyone who complains about the star system say that cross-tier 3-star trades up to a certain ratio, both up and down, are fine and fair? And say nothing about them having to be 1-star to be fair?



The vast majority of players probably do not have this obsessive optimization thing for every square of their city and do not care about squeezing out every single bit of goods they can.


All I care about in the final analysis is optimizing the fun. For many people, when you take something too seriously it takes much or all of the fun out of it.
 

DeletedUser20951

Guest
Although I ignore the majority of cross-tier trades while being mildly annoyed when there are pages upon pages of 'em in the Trader, my main problem, when I bother to give it thought, is that the frequent, non-newbie posters of such trades are basically asking that their production shortcomings be covered and remedied by the 'labor' of others. The keyword is "asking", and I can mentally say, "Nope.", then continue on.
 
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