Make troop instants usable in TG & Merc camp

[Risen Malchiah]

Like many others, I love the troop instants that have been added to recent events.

This proposal would allow the option of using troop instants to produce non-Barracks troops such as using a light melee instant to make Barracks troops or Dogs or Drone Riders, a mage troop instant to produce Priests/Sorceresses or Banshees or Blossom Mages, etc.

This could be implemented in a variety of ways. The most intuitive option may be that when using a troop instant from the Inventory, it calls a dialogue with three options for that particular troop type. As an alternative, a button on each building's training tab (or a new Instants tab) could access troop instants available for that building. (Older proposal suggested they operate like PoP/MM spells, but that may add confusion for players who don't have the other buildings.)

Troop instants would still function the same way, but simply provide alternate troops in the same manner. (ie, 5 or 25 squads of that troop type)

Pros:
1. Grants players more flexibility to add specific types of troops (like Dogs, Blossoms, Vallorian, etc)
2. Makes troop instants more valuable to players who use specialized troops.
3. Aid early & mid-game players who may be reluctant to train troops in buildings where training queues are much longer.
4. Encourages players to try using alternative troop types.

Cons:
1. Adds confusion, but not so much if the pop-up dialogue option is used.
2. Not a lot of screen real estate on the training tab for an additional button unless it's a small intuitive icon.
3. Players who have yet to unlock certain troops might get troops prematurely or face additional confusion if it doesnt work.

Addressing players accessing troops prematurely:
What currently happens when a new player uses a troop instant for troops they've yet to unlock? If players currently can use these troop instants, then perhaps it is not much of a concern to allow some players early access to more advanced troops.

If it is a concern, then perhaps when using troop instants, a lock icon would appear over the troops that can't be selected yet (with appropriate explanation of when they can be unlocked).

 

[Henroo]

If a player who has not yet unlocked the troop type wins the troop instant, the spell still works and they get the troops. It is similar to how you can craft Grounds of the Orc Strategist or Vallarian Valor in the Magic Academy early in the game. This can give you access to Orc Strategists or Vallarian Guards long before you can train them.

 

[StarLoad]

I approve and support and like Henroo said you can get troops early already so that is not a concern.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Are there any more downsides to this idea that I haven't addressed so far? I've love to see some arguments against it to help flesh out any unforeseen issues that I haven't thought of.

 

[samidodamage]

I support this idea, but have tried to think of issues just to help out.
The only thing I come up with is: currently these instants are launched from the Inventory Window and behave like coin instants or time boost instants. Are you proposing they are changed to behave like AWKP instants and will need to be cast from the building they are being used on? Or proposing a change to the pop-up window (to abort or proceed)? Knowing nothing about coding, I don't know which way would be easier to implement. If it's not too hard to change the pop-up window, that could eliminate the issue of lack of space on the training window.

 

[Kekune]

Earlier comments seem to indicate support for allowing players to convert these into troop types they can't train yet. I don't think I'd support that. I think that in the merc camp and training grounds, they should only provide troops players can already make.

Existing exceptions that allow players to get troops they can't train are pretty limited. Buildings that slowly produce troops require a space commitment, and there are only certain types available. Allowing players mass access to specialist troops they can't train could change the game balance pretty significantly.

 

[Ashrem]

The closest thing to a downside I can think of is that it's another advantage for late-game players, since the people in the first few chapters can't place the other training facilities. And maybe benefit accrues disproportionately to diamond players, since players with no premium expansions rarely have enough room for multiple training grounds. Neither of those is a strong drawback, but could be worth mentioning. On the whole, though, players without those facilities will be in exactly the same place they are today.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

My thought is that they just recently introduced Troop instants for the Barracks troops, so there is a good chance they will add separate Troop instants for the other 10 troops. They only just added in chapter 16 an AW that gives free non-Barracks troops, so I think they have plans for more non-Barracks troops, but probably not in a universal instant type.

 

[SoulsSilhouette]

Additional instants would be nice. I like them. It would be great if they could be won in the tournaments or spire as well as events especially since you can only train five troops at a time for three troop tiers. I don't always have the troops to fight, so anything that increases that, would be a welcome addition.

 

[Pheryll]

A few questions:

1) If the instant is applied to a building, would the production be affected by the Simia Sapiens/Brown Bear multiplier?
2) What is the advantage of having an instant that applies to three buildings versus making 2 extra instant types (i.e. troop instants for training grounds and mercenary camp)?
3) Troop instants are currently based on squad size. If routing them through a building, would it make more sense to base this on training size?

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Earlier comments seem to indicate support for allowing players to convert these into troop types they can't train yet. I don't think I'd support that. I think that in the merc camp and training grounds, they should only provide troops players can already make.

Yeah, that's why I agree that limits may be needed if the developers would prefer players not to access troops prematurely. Perhaps the instants could be used the way they currently are (just click and get barracks troops which is currently open to all players regardless of chapter). Or as an alternative, the instants could be spent from clicking a button within the barracks, training grounds and merc camp to produce troops appropriate to that building. And from there, the devs can set chapter thresholds for certain troop types.

A downside is many players won't know they could be used that way, but players would eventually see the shiny new button and discover new ways of using the instants.

The closest thing to a downside I can think of is that it's another advantage for late-game players, since the people in the first few chapters can't place the other training facilities... On the whole, though, players without those facilities will be in exactly the same place they are today.

Like you mentioned, that's no different than the current situation. If anything, it could help early to mid-game players in other ways. Before players get Victory Springs or Flying Academy, there isn't a way to speed up troops in those buildings, so players often avoid training those troops due to really long training times. I train far more specialized troops now that my training queues are roughly equivalent in all 3 buildings. Back in Fairies & Orcs, I would have *loved* to use a light melee instant to get squads of Dogs that took forever to train.

My thought is that they just recently introduced Troop instants for the Barracks troops, so there is a good chance they will add separate Troop instants for the other 10 troops.

Do we want 15 different instant possibilities though? I'm sure those who don't fight wouldn't want 10 additional troop types clogging event rewards.

1) If the instant is applied to a building, would the production be affected by the Simia Sapiens/Brown Bear multiplier?
2) What is the advantage of having an instant that applies to three buildings versus making 2 extra instant types (i.e. troop instants for training grounds and mercenary camp)?
3) Troop instants are currently based on squad size. If routing them through a building, would it make more sense to base this on training size?

I envision the troop instants performing exactly as they do now (so no Simia, no Brown Bear, no training speed effects). They would simply yield different troops, ie Dogs instead of Barbarians, Blossoms instead of Sorceresses, etc, based on which building was used for the instant.

 

[Yogi Dave]

This could be done from the inventory and operate like the Provision or Manufacturing spells. Or there could be a button on each building's training tab that accesses troop instants (similar to the way AWs access KP instants).

The closest thing to a downside I can think of is that it's another advantage for late-game players, since the people in the first few chapters can't place the other training facilities.

It is a big problem requiring a player to have the building placed in their city. There is another delivery method, but it requires more work by the devs which is it's downside (and it's a big one). Add another tab to the military build's dialog. The current tabs are Training, Army Camp, and possibly Update. This would be an Instants tab. Visually, it would be similar to the Army Camp one. Depending on decisions here, it would show all 15 troops or just the ones that can be trained (I prefer all 15). When a troop is clicked on, it would show how many instants of that type you have and let you select how many you wish to use. This delivery method is more like time instants or badge selection in the FA map. I think the badge selection is the better interface.

Existing exceptions that allow players to get troops they can't train are pretty limited. Buildings that slowly produce troops require a space commitment, and there are only certain types available. Allowing players mass access to specialist troops they can't train could change the game balance pretty significantly.

The Grounds of the Orc Strategists, Vallarian Valor, and Brown Bear are the only building I know of which give troops and they are less than a squad size. They do require real estate, but I don't think this would change the game balance significantly. You are getting the same number of squads and these only come from events, at least for now, so limited quantities. Yes, getting the blossom mage instead of the sorceress would be an advantage, but still limited by the number of mage instants you have.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I like this idea, since plenty of units from the barracks are considered "useless" depending on race, allowing to use a "light melee instant" on any type of "barracks" would be a great way to solve it. (example for humans the heavy melee boosters is useless as mortar literally sucks, orc strategist and frog prince are both very welcome additions depending on where the player is in the tech tree)

 

[Ashrem]

There is another delivery method, but it requires more work by the devs which is it's downside (and it's a big one). Add another tab to the military build's dialog.

I think a third option is probably less code then either the original or that, and also extends the function to players in early game. Have redeeming a troop instant call a dialogue with three choices.

They could also add value to the Magic Academy by making some recipes to convert instants from Troop-X to Troop-Y, though it would irritate the people who only want certain recipes.

 

[Yogi Dave]

I think a third option is probably less code then either the original or that, and also extends the function to players in early game. Have redeeming a troop instant call a dialogue with three choices.

I like this. Contains the allows everyone to use them, even adds in those who don't have a barrack. Still a new interface or instants, and I think a bit more code than the original idea of being like PoP or MM spells.

They could also add value to the Magic Academy by making some recipes to convert instants from Troop-X to Troop-Y, though it would irritate the people who only want certain recipes.

lol Sacrad cows. If I can choose what to replace, sure. Otherwise, not so sure I'd like it.

 

[ajqtrz]

I have a "gazillion" Bud Sorceresses because they are hopelessly weak. Throw a banana peel at them and they die in droves. And they must carry banana peels to fight with because they do absolutely nothing but lose battles. So all the mage instants I have are just filling my inventory looking pretty but of no benefit. I I could only have chosen Blossom Mages! They are pretty much the only mages I use because they have the distance to strike before being wiped out. And they are cute.

So, the ability to apply my vast supply of mage instants to my Merc Camp would be sweet indeed.

On the down' side though, if you allow people to choose now, you have no opportunity to give them some building/instant/prize that allows them to instantly increase their troops in the training grounds or merc camp in the future. Once you have given the players something in one form or another you can't then expect a later offer to do much or be very exciting. The devs have to plan long-term I believe and while they could probably give us this now, it may take too much off the table for the future.

Still, I'd love to see it.

AJ

 

[Ashrem]

Bud Sorceresses because they are hopelessly weak. Throw a banana peel at them and they die in droves. And they must carry banana peels to fight with because they do absolutely nothing but lose battles.

I use them extensively when I am deploying the mage multipliers and unleashed unit buildings, particularly when I have an exactly even mix of Heavy Melee and Heavy Ranged opponents.

 

[Yogi Dave]

I have a "gazillion" Bud Sorceresses because they are hopelessly weak

When I played in an elven city I learned when and when not to use them. I quit building them, so just got them from the Flying Academy. Specific fights and especially in the early rounds, they were useful. I didn't worry about losing a lot of them and they saved my Blossom Mages for fights when the Sorceresses couldn't win.

On the down' side though, if you allow people to choose now, you have no opportunity to give them some building/instant/prize that allows them to instantly increase their troops in the training grounds or merc camp in the future. Once you have given the players something in one form or another you can't then expect a later offer to do much or be very exciting. The devs have to plan long-term I believe and while they could probably give us this now, it may take too much off the table for the future.

Don't ask for a pony today because they may be giving me a horse tomorrow. If the devs have something up their sleeve, they won't give us the pony. They will just make us wait for the horse. I don't think that is a solid argument. We can't predict what the devs have in store for us, but we can give them ideas. Maybe that hadn't thought of giving us a horse, but asking for a pony gave them an 'aha' moment.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

Thank you. I like these other options. I had not thought of adding an Instants tab or the pop-up with 3 choices. I like both of those better than the PoP/MM/EE style of applying the instant to a building. The pop-up option would also be the most intuitive and all players would immediately be aware of the new function, thus removing the confusion I was worried about. I can't believe I'm actually advocating *for* a pop-up.

 

[Yogi Dave]

I can't believe I'm actually advocating *for* a pop-up

lol I know, right?