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    Your Elvenar Team

Spire Battle I Can't Win - Any Suggestions?

I'm in the Spire of Eternity, and I'm confronted with a battle I can't win. It's a 2-Wave battle, that's what gets me. I've tried several different attacks but I don't have enough left for the 2nd Wave to defeat them. I'll include some screenshots, does anyone have some technique I can try?
 

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SoggyShorts

Mathematician par Excellence
Do you have any booster buildings?
1st wave looks easy using 5 archers, but second wave with that would be hard.​
1st wave with all blossom mages could be tough, but if you had leftovers you'd be set.​
So much depends on your bonuses from buildings/AW and troop stars. I always have a DA or 2 UUU plus one ELR&MMM which means either 5 archers or 5 mages would work. No boost buildings means a more nuanced strategy may be required.

The real threat (as usual) is those damn mist walkers...
Do you have access to Orc Strategists? 1-2 of those + Blossom mages might do the trick.
 

Huor

Guest
If you manual fight, I use 3 mages and 2 mortars in this type of setup. Mages in positions 1, 4, 5. And mortars in 2 and 3. I use 2 mortars as I want those archers down in 1 round. I have no idea what to do if you auto fight. As soggy said, if you have some combat modifiers, the spire is a good place for them. My rule of thumb is, if it doesn't feel right, cater that round!
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
@Frost Knight
I see you're an elf in Ch4; that's going to be a tough one for sure, even if you manually fight. You don't have mortars (sorry, @Huor ); your Golems with a movement range 3/strike range 3) will not hold up well against those Knights. You don't have Blossom Mages yet (sorry, @SoggyShorts ) and if I'm not mistaken, your Sorceress is still only 1*. She'll hold up in situations that would kill a Blossom Mage, but she's still squishy herself. Again, need to know your bonuses from AW's, military boost bldgs, etc., but I can tell ya, it ain't looking good if you don't have some of those.
This won't do you much good now, but its food for thought for later on and it's a good example of what I mean when I say I fight with 'unconventional' units a lot:
I'm end of Ch15 in one city/ mid Ch17 in the other. All my troops are 3* and I face all 3* enemy units. With upgraded AW's, one of each military boost bldg, and a fed lvl 10 chicken, I'd manual fight it with 3 Blossoms/2 Archers. Yes, it's been said I'm nuts, lol! The thing is: if the only choice available to the Mist Walker is Archer/Blossom, she'll go for the Archer on the first strike every.single.time. I'd concentrate on killing the enemy light range with the Archers while keeping Blossoms out of range(because Mist Walkers will target them after that first strike over Archers) if possible. What's left of the Archers will draw the first strike from the Mist Walker in Wave 2 and will probably at least weaken her enough for a Blossom to kill her (she doesn't have the best defense for enemy light range units; it's her range and initiative that make her dangerous). 3 Blossoms will easily handle the other enemies if they're not seriously injured from Wave 1. Their range will limit their damage in wave 1 from those Knights.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
I'm also a CH4 Elf , if I tried to fight, I'd prolly run (3) Treants**, and (2) FainientFrogs*
manual fighting only, and I might ammend this depending on terrain.....
( yes only reason for my frogs is Witch'sHut from last year ) ( 0 AWs, 0 5days )
 
@Frost Knight
I see you're an elf in Ch4; that's going to be a tough one for sure, even if you manually fight. You don't have mortars (sorry, @Huor ); your Golems with a movement range 3/strike range 3) will not hold up well against those Knights. You don't have Blossom Mages yet (sorry, @SoggyShorts ) and if I'm not mistaken, your Sorceress is still only 1*. She'll hold up in situations that would kill a Blossom Mage, but she's still squishy herself. Again, need to know your bonuses from AW's, military boost bldgs, etc., but I can tell ya, it ain't looking good if you don't have some of those.
This won't do you much good now, but its food for thought for later on and it's a good example of what I mean when I say I fight with 'unconventional' units a lot:
I'm end of Ch15 in one city/ mid Ch17 in the other. All my troops are 3* and I face all 3* enemy units. With upgraded AW's, one of each military boost bldg, and a fed lvl 10 chicken, I'd manual fight it with 3 Blossoms/2 Archers. Yes, it's been said I'm nuts, lol! The thing is: if the only choice available to the Mist Walker is Archer/Blossom, she'll go for the Archer on the first strike every.single.time. I'd concentrate on killing the enemy light range with the Archers while keeping Blossoms out of range(because Mist Walkers will target them after that first strike over Archers) if possible. What's left of the Archers will draw the first strike from the Mist Walker in Wave 2 and will probably at least weaken her enough for a Blossom to kill her (she doesn't have the best defense for enemy light range units; it's her range and initiative that make her dangerous). 3 Blossoms will easily handle the other enemies if they're not seriously injured from Wave 1. Their range will limit their damage in wave 1 from those Knights.

I appreciate you telling it like it is, because Elvenar claims you can beat more powerful opponents in Encounters if you know how to do it, and a lot of gamers here have said it can be done too.

You see, I've just been insanely desperate to get some Magical Workshops and an Elven Armory [am I saying that right?] and I already knew from Support you can get the Magical Workshops in the Spire Of Eternity, and peeking in the top chest I learned about the Elven Armory as well, so I really want one of those too at least. It sucks when you can't buy Diamonds.

Oh, and I apologize. I didn't show you all of my Troops. Here's a screenshot of the whole bunch:
 

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samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
Elvenar claims you can beat more powerful opponents in Encounters if you know how to do it, and a lot of gamers here have said it can be done too.
I don't want to mislead you: There are many encounters you can win against more powerful opponents at your stage of the game. If both enemy waves were the Heavy Melee/Light Range, even if you are considerably outnumbered, your Archers would win that combo. This is just a terrible mix of enemies for your stage in a 2 wave fight. Many Tourney fights are the same, you're outnumbered, but without a second wave, you can win those fights as well. The problem arises of higher squad sizes (in Spire and in higher tourney provinces) where it's not *if you can win*, but *if you can produce enough troops to replace the ones you lose*. Again, with space limitations (for more armories) and no access to AW's that increase training size yet, at your level it's going to be tough to do that. Especially since the Needles AW is a huge benefit at your level (boosts the attack of all your light range units), but also speeds up the barracks training time. This usually results in 'dead time' when you're not training anything (ex: overnight) and it's hard to make up for those lost troops.
The good news is: keep plugging away and it'll ease up in the next couple chapters as you get unit promotions, squad size upgrades, armory upgrades, etc. The end of Ch6 you get the Dwarven Bulwark AW and that helps tremendously with increased training size. Try to work out a setup for now where you can produce the resources to cater/convince when you face enemy setups like these and over time things will start to fall into place for you. Remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint...
Don't forget: you get to change your mind on things later on if you like! I didn't even consider combat when I first started playing. I only trained troops for a quest, and had no troop inventory to speak of. I had never played a combat game and had no intention to start now, lol! I catered everything (we didn't have a Spire then). Then, somewhere around Ch5?, I decided to try combat in the tourney. Fights were different then, more predictable and I used a 'combat for dummies' approach. It was highly successful and production costs for troops were way lower than goods. Also, goods were in demand at that point for other stuff in the game: bldg upgrades, map province negotiations (I started my trip into combat with fighting tourneys and negotiating the map). Using more troops helped build up my goods inventory as well. As I learned more about combat (from watching autofights on browser, something not available on mobile) I found I enjoyed it. It doesn't seem as much like my impression of 'combat' in games; seems more like a complicated game of chess and I like it. Manual fighting is very time consuming, though.
 
I don't want to mislead you: There are many encounters you can win against more powerful opponents at your stage of the game. If both enemy waves were the Heavy Melee/Light Range, even if you are considerably outnumbered, your Archers would win that combo. This is just a terrible mix of enemies for your stage in a 2 wave fight. Many Tourney fights are the same, you're outnumbered, but without a second wave, you can win those fights as well. The problem arises of higher squad sizes (in Spire and in higher tourney provinces) where it's not *if you can win*, but *if you can produce enough troops to replace the ones you lose*. Again, with space limitations (for more armories) and no access to AW's that increase training size yet, at your level it's going to be tough to do that. Especially since the Needles AW is a huge benefit at your level (boosts the attack of all your light range units), but also speeds up the barracks training time. This usually results in 'dead time' when you're not training anything (ex: overnight) and it's hard to make up for those lost troops.
The good news is: keep plugging away and it'll ease up in the next couple chapters as you get unit promotions, squad size upgrades, armory upgrades, etc. The end of Ch6 you get the Dwarven Bulwark AW and that helps tremendously with increased training size. Try to work out a setup for now where you can produce the resources to cater/convince when you face enemy setups like these and over time things will start to fall into place for you. Remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint...
Don't forget: you get to change your mind on things later on if you like! I didn't even consider combat when I first started playing. I only trained troops for a quest, and had no troop inventory to speak of. I had never played a combat game and had no intention to start now, lol! I catered everything (we didn't have a Spire then). Then, somewhere around Ch5?, I decided to try combat in the tourney. Fights were different then, more predictable and I used a 'combat for dummies' approach. It was highly successful and production costs for troops were way lower than goods. Also, goods were in demand at that point for other stuff in the game: bldg upgrades, map province negotiations (I started my trip into combat with fighting tourneys and negotiating the map). Using more troops helped build up my goods inventory as well. As I learned more about combat (from watching autofights on browser, something not available on mobile) I found I enjoyed it. It doesn't seem as much like my impression of 'combat' in games; seems more like a complicated game of chess and I like it. Manual fighting is very time consuming, though.

The next couple of Chapters... :p That doesn't get my Magical Workshop! ;-)

Yeah, the whole 2 Wave thing really throws me for a loop. I'd gotten past that particular chest before. I was right near the top, I had to wait 7 hours for the shield to drop, but I wasn't able to get back on and it was the last day of Spire that week.
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
@Frost Knight
Oof...that hurts! The multiwave fights are challenging. For me: range is king in those fights. As an elf, the only long range Heavy Range unit you have access to is the Frog. Unfortunately, they're a later game unit and you don't get the research for them until Halflings: Ch11! In the meantime, you can look for event bldgs that give them. In addition to the training bonus the Brown Bear is praised for, it also provides Frogs, but not until evolve lvl 4. It's in crafting and the artifacts will eventually come to the Spire again, so it's probably a longer term project (but that's relative since we're talking Ch11!). Witches Hut evolving bldg also gives Frogs, and it'll eventually show up in crafting and those artifacts will come to the Spire. I think @Enevhar Aldarion (?maybe) is the poster that is tracking the artifact schedule in Spire. I'll definitely be before you reach Ch11, though, lol! Getting the Orc Strats early is a plus; at least you have 2 HR units to use instead of just the Golems. Still, in this early part of the game, I think you're going to need to make sure you have extra resources to cater/convince encounters that are all but impossible to fight. Progressing in the Spire provides so many benefits to your city, MW's and MR's are a huge help, but so are the coin/supply/CC/spell frags, etc at your level, so I think it's worth it.
The Winter Event is coming; I have no advance knowledge of any of the dailies there, but iirc, there is usually a really good (for pop) pop/culture bldg in that event. By really good, I mean outperforms a regular house at max lvl on a per square basis. Factoring in that it gives at least some culture (instead of using it) and doesn't require a road, you can gain some space in your city by placing that bldg and selling off a house. Both my cities are currently running with zero houses and 2 magic workshops. That's after 2 years of diligently playing the spire and all the events during that time. My tactic was to save all my event currency for those amazing pop/culture bldg days and win as many as I possibly could. I was also careful to not just place them for the added pop, but to decrease that additional pop by removing a house. I've even teleported my magic houses (not selling those at this level!). In events with lackluster pop/culture bldgs, I went in on mana/seed producers (mana comes in Ch9, seeds in Ch11) instead which helps keep balance in those productions.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
Magic Workshops are the hardest prize to win.....
for early CH players, much easier to buy them on sale
then upgrade with BPs, than win in the Spire....

@Frost Knight ,
by the looks of your troops, you might consider between events
taking a week or 2 off and rebuilding your troops..... and perhaps
catering a little bit more to save troop loss's.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
@samidodamage I don't keep exact track, but it is easy to figure out. Look at the chronological order of events ever since we started having evolving buildings. Then see where the Coldfire Phoenix is in the order, when it was added in the 2020 Phoenix event. It should be in the Spire for six weeks, like most of the rest have been, so this week and the next five weeks. Then six weeks for each artifact since then, until you get to the Halloween artifact from 2020, and you have about when it should be added to the Spire. Next is the 2020 May artifact, then the 2020 Bear artifact, and then 2020 Halloween. So still 19 weeks away for that artifact in the Spire. That is also assuming they don't do anything weird in the Spire with the Air Traders event from last year, since that was a building set and not an evolving building. So maybe 25 weeks instead.
 
@Frost Knight
Oof...that hurts! The multiwave fights are challenging. For me: range is king in those fights. As an elf, the only long range Heavy Range unit you have access to is the Frog. Unfortunately, they're a later game unit and you don't get the research for them until Halflings: Ch11! In the meantime, you can look for event bldgs that give them. In addition to the training bonus the Brown Bear is praised for, it also provides Frogs, but not until evolve lvl 4. It's in crafting and the artifacts will eventually come to the Spire again, so it's probably a longer term project (but that's relative since we're talking Ch11!). Witches Hut evolving bldg also gives Frogs, and it'll eventually show up in crafting and those artifacts will come to the Spire. I think @Enevhar Aldarion (?maybe) is the poster that is tracking the artifact schedule in Spire. I'll definitely be before you reach Ch11, though, lol! Getting the Orc Strats early is a plus; at least you have 2 HR units to use instead of just the Golems. Still, in this early part of the game, I think you're going to need to make sure you have extra resources to cater/convince encounters that are all but impossible to fight. Progressing in the Spire provides so many benefits to your city, MW's and MR's are a huge help, but so are the coin/supply/CC/spell frags, etc at your level, so I think it's worth it.
The Winter Event is coming; I have no advance knowledge of any of the dailies there, but iirc, there is usually a really good (for pop) pop/culture bldg in that event. By really good, I mean outperforms a regular house at max lvl on a per square basis. Factoring in that it gives at least some culture (instead of using it) and doesn't require a road, you can gain some space in your city by placing that bldg and selling off a house. Both my cities are currently running with zero houses and 2 magic workshops. That's after 2 years of diligently playing the spire and all the events during that time. My tactic was to save all my event currency for those amazing pop/culture bldg days and win as many as I possibly could. I was also careful to not just place them for the added pop, but to decrease that additional pop by removing a house. I've even teleported my magic houses (not selling those at this level!). In events with lackluster pop/culture bldgs, I went in on mana/seed producers (mana comes in Ch9, seeds in Ch11) instead which helps keep balance in those productions.

I came close today! I went with the Archers as you suggested [under different scenarios] and I had no losses Wave 1, unlike all previous times. But Wave 2 had Troops that could withstand Archers.
 
By some miracle I beat that 2 Wave attack today and made it to the top! But the 3 Wave attack wiped me out!
The first time I beat Wave 1 and was crushed by Wave 2. The second time, I beat the first 2 Waves. I've got several days, maybe I'll figure it out.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
Frost, if you're still CH4, then Spire only asks for T1/T2.
If Boss #2 is the problem, cater and @ worst it will cost ya
diamonds for an 1 xtra turn...... Otherwise it might take you
a few whacks @ catering if you can afford the resources.

Im CH4 and an Elf ... it doesn't get expensive till lvl3 for me.
 

StarLoad

Well-Known Member
Frost, if you're still CH4, then Spire only asks for T1/T2.
If Boss #2 is the problem, cater and @ worst it will cost ya
diamonds for an 1 xtra turn...... Otherwise it might take you
a few whacks @ catering if you can afford the resources.

Im CH4 and an Elf ... it doesn't get expensive till lvl3 for me.
Brin do not give out advice like that unless you know the account and specific details. You make too many assumptions and are telling someone to DO a SPECIFIC action without knowing all of the facts. Bolding for emphasis
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
Brin do not give out advice like that unless you know the account and specific details. You make too many assumptions and are telling someone to DO a SPECIFIC action without knowing all of the facts. Bolding for emphasis
You're wayy off base ....
1) he is CH4 by his assertion and elvenstats.
2) I know the exact cost he should have for Boss #2
3) using 50 diamonds to win 75 possibly if you are guarenteed success
isn't really that bad of a deal... especially if you use diamonds sparingly
in the Spire so you earn more than you spend.......
4) or I said it will cost resources for a few tries ( if you can afford that )

I looked up his account, check'd his city, and went by what HE said......
so since you like to reverberate I'm only CH4 ( just like he is ) odds are
I do know his freak'n costs ...... get off my back for trying to help someone.
 
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