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    Your Elvenar Team

How much of your world map has to be dead before you (or they) get moved?

MagicPagan

Well-Known Member
Almost every day, there is another tree stump along the N/NW part of my map. I am up to 17 now.

Scouting the provinces in that area lead to never-never land, where there are no neighbors for trading partners, and is a waste of resources.

I have complained to Support 3 different times and keep getting the same canned response.

What I'm looking for is a number now - what percentage of your world map has to be dead before you or the dead cities get moved?

I don't seem to be able to attach an image.
 

Zoof

Well-Known Member
Almost every day, there is another tree stump along the N/NW part of my map. I am up to 17 now.

Scouting the provinces in that area lead to never-never land, where there are no neighbors for trading partners, and is a waste of resources.

I have complained to Support 3 different times and keep getting the same canned response.

What I'm looking for is a number now - what percentage of your world map has to be dead before you or the dead cities get moved?

I don't seem to be able to attach an image.
It's not based on % of map dead. It's based on whether or not the actual border to whatever the game considers the deadlands has reached your city. Depending on your position on the map, the amount of dead area could be between 50 to 67 percent¹, give or take an additional bit due to edge roughness.

¹It might be max 62.5% empty since the border shape is (probably) an octagon despite the actual provinces being hexagons. The 50% figure comes from your city being on an edge while the higher numbers come from the city being on the border's vertex. The actual figure might yet be smaller if the approximation is circular rather than polygonal. The edges felt polygonal the last time I traversed it >.>
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Automated moves only happen on Mondays and a city will only get moved if there is an empty spot that is identical to the current location, meaning a spot has to match your boosts, since you cannot just be moved into any empty spot. That means if people with your boosts are not quitting the game, then you never get to move closer to the center of your server. The other problem is that all the new little cities that people stop playing get auto-deleted as soon as the two or three week inactivity period is reached, no matter what day of the week it is, and any new players making a city that same day will be dropped into those now empty spots. The computer programming/coding does not hold spots open for the Monday moves. @helya has posted before in other threads that she keeps a list of players who seem to keep getting passed over when the movements happen, but they still have no way to manually move a city, so people are at the mercy of the programming.
 

Alram

Flippers just flip
Automated moves only happen on Mondays and a city will only get moved if there is an empty spot that is identical to the current location, meaning a spot has to match your boosts, since you cannot just be moved into any empty spot. That means if people with your boosts are not quitting the game, then you never get to move closer to the center of your server. The other problem is that all the new little cities that people stop playing get auto-deleted as soon as the two or three week inactivity period is reached, no matter what day of the week it is, and any new players making a city that same day will be dropped into those now empty spots. The computer programming/coding does not hold spots open for the Monday moves. @helya has posted before in other threads that she keeps a list of players who seem to keep getting passed over when the movements happen, but they still have no way to manually move a city, so people are at the mercy of the programming.
How do you know that the move feature is working as intended?
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
@helya:
Please correct any incorrect information in my post below. Ignoring my sarcastic strike-throughs will also be appreciated ;)
Here's my understanding of where City Movement is right now:
Brief History:
The Great Migration
in late fall 2021 was a concerted development effort to correct issues finally identified with the auto movement function and to move active players toward the center of the map. Some tweaking of definitions of active/inactive cities as well as addressing issues identified after the first major move (mainly: player having option to avoid movement created vast wastelands surrounding those players when everyone around them was swept up in the move) occurred. They monitored the auto move results for several weeks after polishing everything up and determined that it was generally working as intended.
Where we are now:
The Auto Movement generally occurs on Mondays. The only process in use is the Automatic Movement. They talked about getting support the ability to make manual moves, but that has not materialized.
Players have identified a lingering issue:
City is and has been on the edge of the map with tumbleweeds and goldmines for neighbors along at least one entire side of their city. That city was never picked up by the auto function. Helya can look at the map and see if that's the case. If so, she can add that city to a list she's monitoring of cities similarly impacted. That will allow her to prioritize cities for manual movement if/when that is ever provided to support.
What I'm unsure about:
@Alram's question 'is the move feature working as intended?
I've seen more and more posts from players with cities on a variety of worlds having issues with a huge number of their neighbors becoming and then staying goldmines. These cities do not seem to be on the edge of a map. I looked around the map for both my cities. One of them has this issue and amongst the sea of goldmines are a couple active cities. I've never noticed it due to it being a parked, primarily fighting city with multi-millions of goods. My primary trading activity is checking for/taking trades; I rarely post trades. When looking beyond my discovered area (553 completed provinces) there are what I think will be gold mines interspersed with player cities and past that there's a patch of player cities. I didn't keep going past that, but it's definitely not the 'edge of the map'.
^^I think this is what is referred to when players are saying the Auto Move is broken now. I don't know what to recommend as a mechanism to get them to look at this and figure out what's causing it. Then they'll have to look at what can be done to address it without breaking the rest of the auto move/dropping new cities onto the map system. It took years for them to identify the issue that was corrected with the Great Migration.
Obviously individual support tickets aren't the answer; support can't help.
Perhaps a thread soliciting documentation (pics/world info) on the issue? Where should it go to get the most input? I'll have enough trouble trying to get a pic to post for mine (ask @crackie; I'm hopeless, lol!).

@Astram: Is this something you can help us with? I certainly don't intend to be looking for a problem where none exists but it would be helpful to get some documentation so we can figure out if it's a completely separate problem to the 'edge of the map' one. While it's not a problem for me, I feel for those cities beyond my neighborhood. They're smaller cities (though some determined souls have reached guest races!) so cannot have a healthy trading environment with so few provinces completed.
 

Maeryn

Active Member
The move feature was not working properly before so they fixed it. At what point do they become aware of the fact that the move feature is not working properly now and fix it again?
They need to be doing manual moves every few months…accounts started on the weekends go to free space near the center, they clear the dead cities starting Thursday afternoon then wait til Monday to move people who already have cities.
 

MagicPagan

Well-Known Member
This is really frustrating. I have provinces I can scout adjacent to the dead zone. That satisfies tech requirements and quests in the silly little events with which we are presented with numbing frequency.

However, it doesn't help me discover new neighbors - new trading partners. On the entirety of the north boundary of my already scouted provinces, and cutting down the west of the same area - and today moving into the NE - it is a wasteland. The cities that do exist (and to get to them, I'd have to do a lot of scouting), belong to players who according to elvenstats have not been active in months. Why would I scout them?
 

helya

Beloved Ex-Team Member
@helya:
Please correct any incorrect information in my post below. Ignoring my sarcastic strike-throughs will also be appreciated ;)
The majority of players (that have submitted a ticket) are on the edge of the active map section and not really in a sea of coin cities. The problem with this is that a percentage of players simply have to be on the edge, it's the nature of the way the map is laid out. In the past they may not have realized it, it looked like they had a bunch of neighbors but many were not active but hadn't been moved because the mover was not working correctly.

I've had a handful of players though that are located out in a vast wasteland of emptiness. The way I have my list of "please move mes" is prioritized with these players first, and then anyone that is on the outer edge and has asked to be moved, and then anyone else that just doesn't like where they are for whatever reason.

I nag the team regularly for all of you and I also check weekly to see who from my list has been moved and who is still waiting so it's current and I know I'm yelling for the right players. I cannot say if this helps in any way, but my list does lose enough players each week that I'm hopeful.

@TomatoeHu I did take a look, you have been on the list for about 3 months. :confused:
 

Yavimaya

Scroll-Keeper
@Genefer read the comments on this page. I'm not sure if any of this helps you or not but I'm tagging you in this thread bc I noticed the one you made in another area.
 

MagicPagan

Well-Known Member
Nearly 50 dead cities now. In the last ticket I opened with Support, she did say that the dead cities should have been below my city, not above it as they are. Scouting to my north is useless - those provinces just open up more dead cities, not active trading partners. To top it off, dead cities are now starting to show up on my west and east, and some of the ones to my west are coming close to my own city.

I'm in Chapter 12, and have scouted 285 provinces.
 
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The Fairy

Scroll-Keeper, Buddy Fan Club Member
My experience is that I have to be around the edge, so coin cities next to my city, and maybe all around me, before I get moved.
 

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
I finally got moved on EN1; it was during FA. The latest reconstruction had moved me to a sparse area with regular gold mines. The dead area eventually overwhelmed my city but I still had about 15% of those around me were other cities, when I got moved.
 

MagicPagan

Well-Known Member
I just cannot understand how, if it's the developers who created the "auto move" software, they cannot override it when clearly they are choking out active cities. It's almost gotten to the point on Winyandor where I am ready to throw in the towel and tell support to kill my city there.

And please spare me the support schtick about how they have to move you to a section of the map to correspond with your boosts. Developers programmed for auto moves for their own convenience, not the players. I think they should be required to play the game all the way through to the last chapter. That's the only way they are going to understand how they have hamstrung cities surrounded by tree stumps.
 

Ggal

New Member
How do I get on Halya's list? My whole west side is 23 goldmines with stumps beyond and on my other edges are only the most expensive providences to explore with some types nonexistant (like silk and planks). On to of that, I am seeing many brand new cities being put in around me that never develop (ex: one new city has been there over 3 weeks with a level one main hall, builders hut and workshlp and a level two resident, period). I'm in Chap 9, active in a fellowship but need to alternate between fighting and negotiating in tounaments. My fellowship is helpful but doesn't always have what I need in supplies. In my trader it's the same few cities offering trade and, frankly, never get above a 1 star trade. Very frustrating.
 

The Fairy

Scroll-Keeper, Buddy Fan Club Member
In my trader it's the same few cities offering trade and, frankly, never get above a 1 star trade.
Have you tried to put up your own trades? I find that if I put up 2 star same-tier trades then they are usually picked up fast, and the only trades that I see in my trader are often those other players don't want to buy: 0-1 star trades and cross-tier trades.

If there are just a few bigger cities in your neighborhood then they may be picking up all the 2 star same-tier trades often, and then you don't see those in your trader. And they will likely pick up yours too if you put them up?
 

Ggal

New Member
Good point. I do put up my own trades, 2 or 3 stars, with some success. Too often some or all will sit a day or so. This may be because the active traders seem to have the same boosted goods as me so we're all offering the same trades. That's why I thought if there was a larger pool of active cities, there might be more variety. (Except for one player, my fellowship members are not in my area so I don't get to see their trades. If I send a chat that I've put up trades, I usually get a response from that one player. Am I missing a way to post trades to the fellowship beyond the regular Trader?)
 
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