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    Your Elvenar Team

What has changed?

Meadowlark

Member
I last played around three years ago (got a masters degree in the meantime). I have read here and there about changes to the game, but I'm wondering whether strategies that were previously important have changed. In particular, I'm curious with regard to how certain factors affect battle difficulty and catering costs in tournaments and spire. I remember that previously battle difficulty was affected by among other things ...
--number of city expansions
--AW levels
--squad size

There are probably some other things I've forgotten. The implication was that one wanted to keep cities small, choose AW levels carefully, and not do optional squad size researches. To what degree is this still true, and are there other factors I should think about?

Thank you!
 

Fayeanne

Well-Known Member
Optional squad size researches should no longer affect battle difficulty, and in fact are now required for the Cauldron (if you bother with it).
You will still need to level AWs carefully and with great consideration because they are painfully expensive to level now.
 

MaidenFair

Chef - Head Philologist
I last played around three years ago (got a masters degree in the meantime). I have read here and there about changes to the game, but I'm wondering whether strategies that were previously important have changed. In particular, I'm curious with regard to how certain factors affect battle difficulty and catering costs in tournaments and spire. I remember that previously battle difficulty was affected by among other things ...
--number of city expansions
--AW levels
--squad size

There are probably some other things I've forgotten. The implication was that one wanted to keep cities small, choose AW levels carefully, and not do optional squad size researches. To what degree is this still true, and are there other factors I should think about?

Thank you!
Welcome back, and congrats on your degree!

I know you said you found the answers, but I just wanted to add/confirm some info. Yes, as far as we know, MinMax's calculations are still correct, although some people were reporting last year that their costs were actually a little lower than his spreadsheets predicted, so there was speculation that Inno may have slightly tweaked the formula. His numbers are still good enough to work with, however. As you probably saw, costs for catering and troop numbers in fights are calculated based on your relic boost percentage (tops out at 700%, I believe, for the purposes of calculation), number of expansions placed (with premium expansions carrying less of a penalty than regular ones), number of wonder levels built, and number of researches completed (this does not count optional researches, unlike in the past).

Following on from that however, a number of strategies that used to be recommended have been upended, based on the tournament changes (which I think happened after you left, based on your question about ss researches), and recent changes to AWs. It is now very important to complete all the optional squad size researches because many AW effects are currently calculated based on your squad size, and it does not negatively affect the tournament or spire costs. However, it is still suggested to keep cities small and choose your AW levels carefully, if you want high tournament scores.

It is also probably worthwhile reviewing which AWs you have, and which you still want, because some of the previously important AWs are now less useful and other formerly overlooked ones are having a moment of glory. Wonders were overhauled at the beginning of the year, and a few had effects changed entirely, while many underwent changes in how their productions or power were calculated, and all were rebalanced to have more effect at lower levels. Many players are now finding that the Enar's Embassy is extremely important for mana production, for example, while the Dragon Abbey, which was the foundation of many players' strategy, has been reduced in power. The Lighthouse of Good Neighborhood now boosts the production of all "Discovered Resources" (Mana, Orcs, Seeds) when a building that produces them is enchanted with an Ensorcelled Endowment and receives neighbourly help. The costs for building and upgrading AWs has also been entirely changed, with every level now requiring CCs and Spell Fragments instead of various goods, plus RRs every 5th level.

I don't know what chapter you were in, but all the early chapters (up through 10, so far) have also been reworked in the last year, with the tech tree changing drastically for the first 5 chapters, and quests for all 10 being updated/changed. This has unfortunately led to some foundational strategies that used to be recommended for beginners no longer being viable.
 
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Meadowlark

Member
Thank you @MaidenFair , exactly what I needed!

The highest chapter I reached was Dwarves I think -- my current city is in chapter 2, and I miss being able to do the tournament with a small city. Previous strategies of gaining relics and other goodies in tournaments while cities were in low chapters is not possible. I'm looking forward to the event starting next week -- my first event since I've restarted. I need those event buildings!
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
Following on from that however, a number of strategies that used to be recommended have been upended, based on the tournament changes (which I think happened after you left, based on your question about ss researches), and recent changes to AWs. It is now very important to complete all the optional squad size researches because many AW effects are currently calculated based on your squad size, and it does not negatively affect the tournament or spire costs. However, it is still suggested to keep cities small and choose your AW levels carefully, if you want high tournament scores.

Pretty much this, the formula for tournaments/spire punishes progression (the extent of which varies based on perception). But the bigger your town and the more advanced the more troops/goods you will use, your ability to replace those is debated (devs being more optimistic than many players and hardcore tourny players different again)

Frequently you will hear strategies now based around a small footprint town 3x3 towns for example, think I heard of a 5x5 one in ch 16. Parking towns is also a common conversation if tourney/spire is a major motivation. Selective wonders or even minimal wonders/wonder levels, which with the changes to wonders is still likely to see new strategies as you get 75-80% power from only 50% of the levels.

One thing with all of this thought is what is the end goal with tourny score. If you only want 6-8K pts then none of this really matters, you could build every wonder and still achieve that. If you want 15-20k+ scores weekly then that is a very different goal and understanding the formulas is key, keeping a town small helps a lot too.
 

Meadowlark

Member
Pretty much this, the formula for tournaments/spire punishes progression (the extent of which varies based on perception). But the bigger your town and the more advanced the more troops/goods you will use, your ability to replace those is debated (devs being more optimistic than many players and hardcore tourny players different again)

Frequently you will hear strategies now based around a small footprint town 3x3 towns for example, think I heard of a 5x5 one in ch 16. Parking towns is also a common conversation if tourney/spire is a major motivation. Selective wonders or even minimal wonders/wonder levels, which with the changes to wonders is still likely to see new strategies as you get 75-80% power from only 50% of the levels.

One thing with all of this thought is what is the end goal with tourny score. If you only want 6-8K pts then none of this really matters, you could build every wonder and still achieve that. If you want 15-20k+ scores weekly then that is a very different goal and understanding the formulas is key, keeping a town small helps a lot too.
Thanks @Mykan.

My town is 3x3 now in chapter 2, just about to go to chapter 3. I think keeping it this small would be very challenging -- although having better culture buildings or pop/culture/goods buildings would help. I haven't built the Magic Academy yet. I think it might be possible to have a 3x4 town (including a Magic Academy) for chapter 3 and then 4x4 for chapter 4.

I remember another piece of advice used to be to keep map exploration limited to save encounters for events, but that limits tournament scores. Are events more flexible now so they are not as dependent on completing map encounters and researches?

Update for anyone interested (including @Henroo) on my diamond accumulation so far: I'm at 485, having gained a few more by watching ads. Saving them for upgrading my Magic Academy when I build it.

I'm wondering whether I should hold off on entering Chapter 3 until the next event starts as the announcement indicates quests are customized by chapters. Does anyone from beta have input on this question?
 

Fayeanne

Well-Known Member
Are events more flexible now so they are not as dependent on completing map encounters and researches?
Nope! Well, in recent events (who knows with the upcoming updates to the quest list), most of the time quests offer an option for Tournament, Spire, or world map encounters. But there have been quests requiring only province encounters (usually coupled with only fight -or- only negotiate), and sometimes the Tournament/Spire quests land on days when both are unavailable, so it is still helpful to have encounters handy. You probably won't need nearly as many provinces held in reserve now though, since the "only province" quests are few in number. (My memory is saying about a maximum of 8 encounters required for the entire event?)

I'm wondering whether I should hold off on entering Chapter 3 until the next event starts as the announcement indicates quests are customized by chapters. Does anyone from beta have input on this question?
I'm curious about this as well. In later chapters I was enjoying being able to mostly continue running my cities like normal and only avoid certain types of collections (like Workshops) since event quests never asked for things like Mana and Orcs. Now I suspect I'm going to have to go back to the days of putting the entire city's progress completely on hold just to do the event...
 

Lelanya

Scroll-Keeper, Keys to the Gems
We have a new quest, Complete a Province, which means do Encounter #8. There are 3 of those this time. 68B has a Negotiate 8 or Fight and Win 7, which will set off one player on the feedback thread when he reaches it.
 

quin629

Well-Known Member
TBH, more than one player. 3 'complete a province' plus another 7-8 province encounters is hard on low chapter players who have been following the 'normal gameplay' Inno guidance to keep exploring and completing provinces to progress through the early chapters. They are just less likely to be on the Forums or Discord and therefore less likely to have their complaints heard.
 

Meadowlark

Member
I remember the "complete a province" quests from when I played before. I have a lot of provinces as a new player. Where I'm expecting to struggle is magical stuff like combining catalysts, enchantments, and spell fragments. Without the tournament, I can't get enough relics to make a lot of enchantments, nor am I winning them in the tournament. Nor do I have stores of buildings from previous events to disenchant. I may not get very far in the quest list.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
Sadly, the biggest change is here. I don't do Discord because it doesn't let me know about the feedback I get from players, which means I don't sense if my communication is just "vapor launched into the ether," or if it get any response. In addition, the whole range of visual cues on Discord is often overwhelming. You get hundreds of icons with different meanings, four layers (vertically arranged from general to specific, left to right rather than horizontally done as in most forums). Sigh. So, the result is, I visit Discord never and here only on occasion whereas before, I was pretty steady in my verbiage. Some say a little too steady. LOL

I've been with the game since 2016 and do find most of the changes I could handle in stride if I was willing to make adjustments. Discord is just too discordant for me, and since the forum is one of the things I really enjoy(ed) I lost a lot of enjoyment from that change.

AJ
 
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