0-1 Star Trade Warning

[elvenbee]

The app has a glitch. I have posted screen shots of in one of the many threads on this subject. The glitch is as you approach the bottom of the trader window in the app, the next trade that would have been inline is changed with another one that was below it. so if you are clicking fast through your 3* trades you want to pick up and some 2 or less star trades are next in line, when you get to the bottom of the window, one of those trades will trade position with the one you really wanted and you'll pick up one of the junk trades.

I also went pack to the top and re-read your original issue which was about posting trades that are not balanced. Sorry about my confusion!

Ahhh, I thought you meant 0-1 Star Trades were a glitch and I was like uuuhh, not based on other people's responses lol.

No worries! As I mentioned in this comment -

This isn't about accepting trades, it's about posting trades. We've had multiple newer players that have posted 0-1 star trades when that is not their intention. They play on mobile and it wasn't caught until hours after they posted, because one of our other FS members brought it up.

I play on both PC and my phone, and I utterly refuse to post trades when I'm on my phone. The processes are different between PC and mobile; the only similarity is that you cannot see what # star trade you are posting on either platform . You can only see the amount of goods you are posting and demanding.

On mobile, it's the quick click of a "Confirm" then a trader symbol with a green checkmark pops up and goes away quickly.
On PC, you click "Confirm" then a box pops up showing you a confirmation of what is trade is posted.

Again, no mention of 0 Stars, 1 Star, 2 Stars, or 3 Stars on either version. At least with PC, you get the confirmation box of what was posted.

Having a pop-up box that could be turned on/off for 0-1 Star Trades would help newer/mobile players that are getting the hang of trading. It would help them prevent mistakes, because we are human and mistakes happen, that they didn't notice until later or too late. Since not everyone would consider 0-1 Star Trades a mistake (that's a completely different debate, we're not discussing that aspect), it would be a feature that could be turned off for those players.

I took screenshots and snips, but it's not letting me post them because the files are too large, so I uploaded them to Imgur. The first two images are a mobile trade and the last two are a PC trade.

https://imgur.com/a/VMYsIOu

My intention is to help newer/mobile players better understand trades and help prevent them from making mistakes until they have a better understanding of trades and how they work, and how the trader works. Despite telling new players to read the Wiki, they don't because it can seem overwhelming and daunting, which is understandable when you're new!

 

[Lady Dastardly]

The trader already autofills a trade at 2 stars. Players have to manually adjust the amount to make it something other than 2 stars. I'm not sure a popup would aid new players.

I keep coming back to this. You have to deliberately type in a new set of numbers to change the recommended 2* trade amount. That's not a mistake being made, that's a conscious choice. I actually think the reason so many newbies place 0-1* trades is because the vast majority of the trades they see have the trader fee attached. With a tiny discovered neighborhood, this makes it seem like most players are posting 0-1* trades, so they're just doing what everyone else seems to be doing. I agree that the game should offer new players a better explanation of how trading works, but a checkbox, even one you could disable, doesn't seem like a particularly effective teaching tool and wouldn't be worth the amount of backend work it would take to implement.

 

[Darielle]

not to start a whole new debate, but does anyone really use the checkboxes for standard/sentient/ascended?
when i am trading, i am typically looking for a specific good being offered or demanded and use the DDL for that. but that's me.

Raises hand.

 

[samidodamage]

use the checkboxes for standard/sentient/ascended?

Raises hand.

Me, too. I only use the trader on browser. It's been awhile since I even looked at it on mobile. I haven't reached Ascended yet, but use regular and sentient all the time.
My brain prefers to process small bits of info at a time. I do FS trades>standard, then FS>sentient; entire trader>standard, then entire trader>sentient. For 'entire trader' I also sort by offered/demanded. This makes it much easier for me to avoid cross trades in standard goods (unless pre-arranged in FS) and still help neighbors who trade in same tier goods. [my own personal preference: no need to 'splain the pros and cons to me!]
Am I capable of processing more diversified info at the same time? Yes. It wouldn't be a deal breaker for me if they went away, but yes I like them and use them.

 

[crackie]

I keep coming back to this. You have to deliberately type in a new set of numbers to change the recommended 2* trade amount. That's not a mistake being made, that's a conscious choice. I actually think the reason so many newbies place 0-1* trades is because the vast majority of the trades they see have the trader fee attached. With a tiny discovered neighborhood, this makes it seem like most players are posting 0-1* trades, so they're just doing what everyone else seems to be doing. I agree that the game should offer new players a better explanation of how trading works, but a checkbox, even one you could disable, doesn't seem like a particularly effective teaching tool and wouldn't be worth the amount of backend work it would take to implement.

I was guilty of exactly this starting out. It also didn't help I started out in the desert with no neighbors and it took awhile for me to bother exploring fellowships. I didn't have many neighbors and 1* trades were pretty much all I saw. I thought that was normal. Ashamedly, it also never occurred to me that actual players were the ones going to take my trade and not some AI game mechanism. Everything in the game has a damn timer so I assumed incorrectly that you'll just eventually get the goods you've traded for after some timer timed out. Once I finally joined a FS, they set me straight, thankfully without involving the slapping with the broadside of a fish. Now when I see new neighbors doing this, I'll drop them a note to explain the trader fee too, esp if they are tiny cities that don't have any FS banners next to their names.

 

[Myne]

I keep coming back to this. You have to deliberately type in a new set of numbers to change the recommended 2* trade amount. That's not a mistake being made, that's a conscious choice. I actually think the reason so many newbies place 0-1* trades is because the vast majority of the trades they see have the trader fee attached. With a tiny discovered neighborhood, this makes it seem like most players are posting 0-1* trades, so they're just doing what everyone else seems to be doing. I agree that the game should offer new players a better explanation of how trading works, but a checkbox, even one you could disable, doesn't seem like a particularly effective teaching tool and wouldn't be worth the amount of backend work it would take to implement.

On the browser, if you click on the good you want first and then the good you offer, but don't enter the quantity of good you want before you click the offered good and go back to enter the quantities, it will NOT default to 2 stars. And who would do that? Newbies. That's why it is important for archmages to coach the correct way so that's not a problem.

 

[Yogi Dave]

I keep coming back to this. You have to deliberately type in a new set of numbers to change the recommended 2* trade amount. That's not a mistake being made, that's a conscious choice.

This is true, but a 2* trade can change overnight to become 1* or 3* if they are decaying goods. Since the values are always integers, this can happen, but it's just 1 good below or above the amount, so I still consider them as 2*, but it does sort them into a different position in the list.

 

[SoggyShorts]

a 2* trade can change overnight to become 1* or 3* if they are decaying goods.

Are you sure? I thought both sides of the trade decayed evenly thus keeping the same ratio

 

[Yogi Dave]

I am a newbie and I did "0 star trades" in the beginning (at the suggestion of my Archmage). No one should get mad. They can just pass over them. I feel it helps people grow their city, when getting stuck and out of coins might make them quit.

This I understand. There was a new player near me years ago that asked for some advice and in answering, I suggested joining an FS, which she didn't want to do at the time, so suggested placing some 0 or 1 star trades and that I'd pick them up sometime during the day. Since she was new, the trades were small. She copied me a nasty gram she got from someone nearby saying she shouldn't place them thinking she was going to get in trouble or kicked out of the game. So, I sent a message to both of them explaining the reason they were being placed. He agreed it was fine what she was doing, and the problem went away. Unfortunately, she didn't stay in the game for very long, but it wasn't because of problems from placing those trades.

I actually think the reason so many newbies place 0-1* trades is because the vast majority of the trades they see have the trader fee attached. With a tiny discovered neighborhood, this makes it seem like most players are posting 0-1* trades, so they're just doing what everyone else seems to be doing. I agree that the game should offer new players a better explanation of how trading works, but a checkbox, even one you could disable, doesn't seem like a particularly effective teaching tool and wouldn't be worth the amount of backend work it would take to implement.

I tend to agree with this. To me it's more the 0* or 1* sentient trades that bother me. I'm glad they sort to the bottom of the list and that on the browser you can select the class of trades you are seeing. Selecting just the standard goods lets me look at the bottom of the list to see if there are small 0* or 1* trades. I'll take them for a while, but if they continue for whatever I decide it's too long, I quit taking them. If they are T3 to T2 and T1, that time is shorter than if they are in-tier trades. Trades up I'll take for a much longer time since newbies may not have had time or space to build the upper tier factories.

While it's nice to think education by Inno could help, a lot of people won't read it and another pop-up can just be a pain that must be clicked through. Most games have a learning period a player has to go through. Being in a FS is probably the best way to learn good habits, not some text you need to read or a pop-up you just click through.

 

[Yogi Dave]

Are you sure? I thought both sides of the trade decayed evenly thus keeping the same ratio

Yes, I'm sure. They decay evenly in real numbers, but since Inno only places integers, they can differ. Take a 48 to 72 trade (1.5). Decay both by 10% and you get 43.2 which becomes 44 and 64.8 which becomes 65 which is 1.477. Inno calls that a 3* or 1* depending on which is being traded for the other. I've seen non 2* trades for ascended goods, which have to be placed as 2*. It can only occur for cross-tier trades. By the time you see these, they don't have a hat, so are skipped over anyway.

 

[SoggyShorts]

It can only occur for cross-tier trades.

Ah, that's why I've never noticed. Yet another reason they are gross.