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    Your Elvenar Team

0 trades should only be seen by the FS

EyeScream

Member
These 0 trades are starting to get out of hand. I think they should only be visible by the FS you are in. Period. If the people in your FS want to take them, great, but stop cluttering up the rest of our trade areas with pages and pages of 0 trades.

Screenshot 2022-04-15 203645.jpg


Almost 20 pages of 0 trades every day. Please INNO make it so 0 trades are only seen by the FS the person is in or make a new tab for 0 trades that only the FS can access. This would be great!
 

Zoof

Well-Known Member
At least they seem to be sorted by star value after being sorted by whether or not it's possible for you to accept the trade, so you can ignore those things at the end of the list. I, too, would like a user-settable filter for star value.

But as it stands, this reads like those suggestions that the devs have said they won't consider (see near-bottom of OP)
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
At least they seem to be sorted by star value...

The default always sorts by star value in descending order, so there is never a reason to look lower down the list once you have seen all the 3 and 2-star trades. I think the times people get really upset about this is when there are only 1 and 0-star trades for what they are looking for and some people somehow think these are hiding the good trades from them.
 

Zoof

Well-Known Member
The default always sorts by star value in descending order, so there is never a reason to look lower down the list once you have seen all the 3 and 2-star trades. I think the times people get really upset about this is when there are only 1 and 0-star trades for what they are looking for and some people somehow think these are hiding the good trades from them.
To be fair, that's why I mentioned that the star sorting is done after the sort is done to determine whether or not the trade is actually possible (e.g. you have the goods needed to take the trade), so people may think they're missing out if they see at the very bottom of the list 3 or 2 star trades but neglect to see that they cannot take them without constructing additional pylons gathering more goods

EDIT: I also see that the OP has sentient goods in their display. I don't know how that changes the sort order, if it does, since I'm not at that point in the game yet. I can't imagine it being any different with respect to sorting, but I keep hearing that the sentients market is awful in general.

EDIT2: This seems to be the sort order on the browser version. I haven't done enough trading with the app version to be confident that this is the same
 
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Flashfyre

Well-Known Member
EDIT: I also see that the OP has sentient goods in their display. I don't know how that changes the sort order, if it does, since I'm not at that point in the game yet. I can't imagine it being any different with respect to sorting, but I keep hearing that the sentients market is awful in general.

EDIT2: This seems to be the sort order on the browser version. I haven't done enough trading with the app version to be confident that this is the same

I use the app, and sentient goods trades usually (not always) appear at the bottom of the Star listings; that is, the first trades I see are 3* ones of the regular goods, with the sentient trades last before the 2* trades begin.
 

Lady Dastardly

Well-Known Member
In the browser, I see the sentient goods trades mixed in randomly* with regular goods trades of the same Star rating.

* if there is a rhyme or reason for the order, I can't tell what it is.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
In the browser, I see the sentient goods trades mixed in randomly* with regular goods trades of the same Star rating.

* if there is a rhyme or reason for the order, I can't tell what it is.

In the browser all trades have three rules. First, do you have the goods to take it, with ones you can't take listed after all trades you can. Second, the star value of the trade, listed from highest to lowest. Third, the percent of extra goods you get, for 3-star, from most to least or of goods you lose, 1 and 0-star, from least to most. And then, the cross-tier trades make it look more complex, where a trade that gives you more goods than you get is listed ahead of a trade that gives you less goods than you give. A trade offering tier 1 for 2 or 3 will be listed before a trade offering tier 3 for 2 or tier 2 for 1, etc, if all the other factors are equal. Oh, and trades are listed in order of size, largest to smallest, if all other factors are equal. Plus, not all of these are true for the mobile app version of the Trader. All that is complicated enough that I hope I am remembering it correctly. lol
 

Nectar of the Gods

Well-Known Member
I used to get upset about all the 1 & 0 star trades. And then I thought, "Why am I putting so much energy into fretting the small stuff?"

On the browser you can put a check mark in the box to see only FS trades, regular goods trades, sentient goods trades, or uncheck all the boxes and see all of the three types of trades listed. Personally I find it easier to enter in the good I am looking for instead of looking through all the different types of goods offered, trying to sort through to find what I want. Saves me tons of time. Easy, peasy, done. As far as the worry over the 1 & 0 star trades, the three star trades are first, second star trades next, on down to zero star trades. I only check all of the trades on a page, regardless of the stars, when I check the FS trades. When on the neighborhood trades, the second it goes to 1 star trades I stop. Easy, simple, and it keeps the blood pressure down. Just walk away. ;)
 

EiLeNeva

Member
These 0 trades are starting to get out of hand. I think they should only be visible by the FS you are in. Period. If the people in your FS want to take them, great, but stop cluttering up the rest of our trade areas with pages and pages of 0 trades.

View attachment 12485

Almost 20 pages of 0 trades every day. Please INNO make it so 0 trades are only seen by the FS the person is in or make a new tab for 0 trades that only the FS can access. This would be great!
Yeah! My "flicking finger" gets tired!
But sadly...I rarely find ANY fellowship trades either, whether feeless or starred (sniff sniff).
One happy discovery in my game, (with my recent city transplant to Oz)...I have noticed I have a fellowship member in my new neighborhood! Who knew that would ever happen? And, as I peek into my neighbors city's...i find I'm but a grasshopper in their eyes! But like Caleb and Joshua, I started looking for advantages...and while their behemoth, high walled city's are intimidating...when I give NH...I still increase my coins, culture, and sometimes relics. Yahoo!
 
I would like to be able to filter trades by star value.
Me too!

Its frustrating to mistakenly click on an unfair trade when you go past the end of a column of fair trades. This most typically happens when you are working near the bottom of the list and you can't see the unfair trade that is on the next page.

I also find that the sort order buries goods that I want in among the unfair trades because at the moment I don't have the required amount of goods needed to make the trade. But I can often get the goods needed by making other intermediary trades to do so. Or I can speed up production on a manufactory to get them. I particularly find this problem with sentients because there are often more unfair trades listed than fair ones.

And I do find it irritating working through pages of unfair trades. It makes the process unnecessarily complicated and less fun.

I can't really see a downside for Inno in adding another filter to the trader. I suppose this request needs to be posted in the Ideas and Suggestions forum.
 

crackie

Chef
But sadly...I rarely find ANY fellowship trades either, whether feeless or starred (sniff sniff).
First, glad to see you back, @EiLeNeva. I checked out your FS on Elvenstats and you guys have 7 inactives in a group of 22, so that's a fairly high number of paperweights. There are also plenty of chap 1 and 2 cities and your AM is only in chap 6, which is the largest city. You guys are averaging 3 chests in tourney so I'm going to say that Chap 6 AM is not the most experienced city leading the charge of a group with many new cities. If you're not seeing inter-FS trades, then it's likely everyone's trying to make their own unboosted goods because they don't know better. I think you would fare better in another FS led by someone who knows the game better to guide the others along. Even casual players need guidance. This FS has the signs of the blind leading the blind, which is never good.
 

samidodamage

Well-Known Member
The request is already in the "Archived: Ideas and Suggestions" section, so I assume that means its dead:
Not necessarily. There is a 'read before posting' sticky in that sub-forum that details the process for getting an idea in front of the devs. The thread you linked is a good example of a poster introducing an idea, then editing it into the required format based on feedback. There is even a point where the OP requested a mod to look it over and start an official poll if appropriate. Unfortunately, that happened when the forum was undergoing some shuffling of the volunteer mods and the CM, so it kinda just got lost. If you notice, the thread started in Feb 2021, would fizzle out, then be revived a month or so later, finally appearing to die in Aug 2021 until it was necro'd in Feb 2022 yet again.
That said, it mostly applies to other subjects. There are a couple posters here (not going to name them because...beetlejuice!) who believe strongly in their ability to force all players to see any off the wall trade they post. They bring up 'free market trades' as if this game is not a controlled economy, refer to themselves as 'Economy players' then fight tooth and nail with walls of text wearing everyone out to preserve their ability to continue to post crap trades. They respond to all objections as if we all need to be educated on the proper approach to economics. I know for a fact there are retired business managers and accountants who have disagreed with them about that approach in this game, though they absolutely understand and use those fair market economic principles IRL. Those 'economy players' are still trying to educate them...
These rabid 'Economy Players' show no signs of relenting, even with ideas that give other players the *option* of filtering those trades out of their view. 'Free trade' is important to them, player choice (unless it's only their choices) is not.
 

EiLeNeva

Member
First, glad to see you back, @EiLeNeva. I checked out your FS on Elvenstats and you guys have 7 inactives in a group of 22, so that's a fairly high number of paperweights. There are also plenty of chap 1 and 2 cities and your AM is only in chap 6, which is the largest city. You guys are averaging 3 chests in tourney so I'm going to say that Chap 6 AM is not the most experienced city leading the charge of a group with many new cities. If you're not seeing inter-FS trades, then it's likely everyone's trying to make their own unboosted goods because they don't know better. I think you would fare better in another FS led by someone who knows the game better to guide the others along. Even casual players need guidance. This FS has the signs of the blind leading the blind, which is never good.
I did question why we had no mages or ambassadors in our fellowship (by private message... so AM could be discreet if desired). I was concerned why the FS Perks were not available...but never received an answer.
There was someone, with a slightly higher score than I, that answered some member's questions after the last FA began (before I took my leave) and when I returned...he was gone. There are a few actives (below my score) that "appear" to be antsy with the lack of leadership too, as they have asked questions in the FS message loop... but got no answers either. I was told "we don't seem to be a very chatty group" when I tried to stir up some SoE discussions.
I hate to admit defeat...but feel the AM is either over his/her head, or doesn't care. One if the steadily growing members is in my new neighborhood...so I would hate to lose an ally, but believe you are right about the need to move. I just hate losing anything I have worked so hard to attain...as there has been enuff real life change in my life lately.
 
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ajqtrz

Chef
While I concur that such a filter would be nice, to me it's like saying the easy "work around" is just too hard. But, in my opinion, it isn't. The first thing I do in trading is check the box for non-sentient goods only. That makes those thirty to forty pages shrink, usually to about a dozen or so. Much easier.

One down side might be that if you let people filter out the 0 star trades nobody will be posting 0 star trades because, if everybody filters them out, what's the point? And because, as I've argued elsewhere, there is nothing wrong with a 0 star trade, filtering them out would make the effective range of trades available must smaller.

In addition, another "medium" problem, as I think about it, is that it would also force smaller player to, by necessity, announce they have posted zero star trades. In one of my friends fs he has several players do the Spire by loading up their goods and catering. That's done through 0 star trades and either those players would have to notify him of their trades, or he'd have to remember to NOT filter out the 0 star trades.

And finally, a rather small point. If you want to filter out the trades you'd have to make the filter a "permanent" one in the settings, or a temporary one in the trade window. The first makes 0 star trades go away and, as noted, that may have some negative effects, and the second has to be remembered, about the same amount of work as stopping when you come to the first 0 star trade.

Thus, there are some downsides, and the effort to not take 0 star trades is pretty low so I'd rather the devs put there efforts somewhere else.

AJ
 

EiLeNeva

Member
I did question why we had no mages or ambassadors (by private message so AM could be discreet if desired) I was concerned why the FS Perks were not available...but ever received an answer.
There was someone, with a slightly higher score than I, that answered some member's questions after the last FA began (before I took my leave) and when I returned...he was gone. There are a few actives (below my score) that "appear" to be antsy with the lack of leadership too, as they have asked questions in the FS message loop... but got no answers either. I was told "we don't seem to be a very chatty group" when I tried to stir up some SoE discussions.
I hate to admit defeat...but feel the AM is either over his/her head, or doesn't care. One if the steadily growing members is in my new neighborhood...so would hate to lose an ally, but believe you are right about the need to move. I just hate losing anything I have worked so hard to attain...as there has been enuff real life change in my life lately.
 

crackie

Chef
I just hate losing anything I have worked so hard to attain...as there has been enuff real life change in my life lately.
But you know what’s even more rewarding and FUN? Working hard with 24 other like-minded players for the same goals! You will enjoy this game even more when you find a functional, well run FS. And for some people, a functional well run FS is a FS of 1 and that works too! Being in a FS shouldn’t feel like pulling teeth!!!

I think a lot of people overstay a wrong-fitting FS over some misguided sense of loyalty. It’s a player’s market. There are more FS looking for players than players looking for FS. You get to be as picky as you want for the game experience you want. If they want to keep you, do a better job running the place.
 
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