• Dear forum visitor,

    It looks as though you have not registered for a forum account, or are not signed in. In order to participate in current discussions or create new threads, you will need to register for a forum account by clicking on the link below.

    Click here to register for a forum account!

    If you already have a forum account, you can simply click on the 'Log in' button at the top right of your forum screen.

    Your Elvenar Team

0 trades should only be seen by the FS

Deleted User - 849777001

Guest
But you know what’s even more rewarding and FUN? Working hard with 24 other like-minded players for the same goals! You will enjoy this game even more when you find a functional, well run FS. And for some people, a functional well run FS is a FS of 1 and that works too! Being in a FS shouldn’t feel like pulling teeth!!!

I think a lot of people overstay a wrong-fitting FS over some misguided sense of loyalty. It’s a player’s market. There are more FS looking for players than players looking for FS. You get to be as picky as you want for the game experience you want. If they want to keep you, do a better job running the place.
Boy...do I agree with that!
As a fellowship of one...I could find those like minded fellows over time...and have access to the benefits of being in a FS in the mean time...like opening "perks" to save my individual advances? 《Light Bulb above my head》
Thanks Again...
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
I just hate losing anything I have worked so hard to attain...as there has been enuff real life change in my life lately.
How does one find a good fellowship? This my second fail...
Here's an idea: Instead of losing the players who mesh with your playstyle, but not with that of the FS, can you talk to them to see if there's any interest in moving to a new FS? If there is, you can look for FS's that need to grow by having new members, but already have a good mix of players at different levels within the game. It's hard to help each other if you're all at the same place with the same needs, even if you know what you're doing lol! Once you know if/how many players want to move, you have a couple choices:
You could form your own small FS, mainly to give yourselves time to screen possibilities. @crackie is spot on about FS's needing you more than you need them. A good FS screening tool is ElvenStats. Select the FS tab at the top and enter the name of any FS. It'll give you a page for that FS showing all members. Here's a link to the one you're currently in on Arrendyl: EiLeNeva
Scroll down a bit and you'll see the list of members showing their Chapter, boosted goods, and way more info than you'll probably want or need, lol! Look at those with the black triangle next to their name. On PC browser you can hover over the triangle and get a popup telling you the last time there was a change in that player's score, a pretty good indicator of their activity level.
Posting now so you see this before you quickly run to a FS of 1: Remember FS's need members. You'll be competing with all those FS's to get players in a new FS. Still, if you decide to do an FS of 1 while you screen FS's, that will give you access to tourneys and stuff while you look around.
 

Deleted User - 849777001

Guest
But you know what’s even more rewarding and FUN? Working hard with 24 other like-minded players for the same goals! You will enjoy this game even more when you find a functional, well run FS. And for some people, a functional well run FS is a FS of 1 and that works too! Being in a FS shouldn’t feel like pulling teeth!!!

I think a lot of people overstay a wrong-fitting FS over some misguided sense of loyalty. It’s a player’s market. There are more FS looking for players than players looking for FS. You get to be as picky as you want for the game experience you want. If they want to keep you, do a better job running the place.
How does one go about starting their own fellowship?
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
How does one find a good fellowship? This my second fail...

First, look at their fellowship description. Start with fellowships with people you know from the forum or other places. If you are on Khelonar, you'd look at Starship Valiant-, for instance.

Second, you can go to the forum for your world and open "members seeing fellowships" and put your name in there with a description about for what you are looking in a fellowship. You will get responses as most people don't know about that option and us AM's watch (and swoop in -- LOL) when somebody posts something there.

Third, and related, you can go to the same forum and pick "fellowships seeking members" There are always a few...like mine which has openings...and you can respond there.

Fourth, you can go to elvenstats.com and look up potential fellowships, see if they are active (and how active) and all that.

Finally, you should remember that it may take a couple tries. Stick with a fellowship only so long as it's meeting your needs and you are comfortable with the pace and people. Once you've been there a few weeks you should know that.

AJ
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Boy...do I agree with that!
As a fellowship of one...I could find those like minded fellows over time...and have access to the benefits of being in a FS in the mean time...like opening "perks" to save my individual advances? 《Light Bulb above my head》
Thanks Again...
Being in a FS of 1 opens access to tourney and perks, but you won’t get very far with Perk system with one player. The best way to earn perk XP points is via Spire and Tourney chests (4K XP points) and you won’t be doing much of that by yourself. If you care about rewards, FS of 1 is not the way to go. If you like quiet, solitude, and playing at your own pace, then it might be your ideal arrangement.

Being an archmage is also a lot of work, as recruiting is never ending. Like I said before, it’s a player’s market. If you are an archmage, you are fighting other FS for players. If you are a player, you get to be in the driver’s seat and be as picky as you want about which FS to join. Know what you are getting into before deciding to be the boss.

I think @samidodamage made a good suggestion of possibly leaving with the other actives and join a more active FS together, almost like a merger.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
there has been enuff real life change in my life lately.
If you are wanting a new FS to primarily find a better trading and playstyle fit...I honestly suggest that you start at the top of the fellowship ranking lists and work your way down. Read the overviews, look at the requirements, filter by your playstyle and goals. Check them on Elvenstas for the black triangle of death. The trophies on the overview will give you a general idea of the Fellowships performance.
 

Mirai

Active Member
How does one find a good fellowship? This my second fail...
I'm still pretty new at this game, though I've gamed in other venues for years. There's a lot to be said for finding your right fit, and I'm happy in one and utterly delighted in 2 of my three cities' FSs. I went looking, and wrote to the AM of a good looking clan (FS), asking if there was room for a small but growing city (I'm Ch.IV on my first, and already Ch.III on my other two), let them know my boosts, mentioned I'm a daily player, looking for a happy, chatty group. I find myself welcomed and nurtured in groups where I'm one of the littlest, but certainly one can give, when the group is active in Tourney and Spire.
The friend who showed me the delights of this game and got me interested (a French player; her one FS finished second in the recent FA, has been playing for years) gives the excellent advice that it might take you several groups to find your best fit, for your playing style and for social happiness - it is worth the try.
Also look in the messages in the Forum here for members seeking FS and FS seeking members, for notes from likely connections.
Reading FS descriptions of themselves is also good for getting a feel for a group: how active are they, what are they looking for, can they spell, are they funny, are they chatty or quiet, do they want 3x a week or daily connections? And how do those factors fit for you?
Happy game to you, and good connections. You've got this.

Mirai
Caffeinated Dragons - Arendyll
Moonbeam Syndicate - Wynandor
Misty Mountains - Felyndral
 

Deleted User - 849411552

Guest
One down side might be that if you let people filter out the 0 star trades nobody will be posting 0 star trades because, if everybody filters them out, what's the point? And because, as I've argued elsewhere, there is nothing wrong with a 0 star trade, filtering them out would make the effective range of trades available must smaller.

AJ
The OP's thread title is: "0 trades should only be seen by the FS". This would suggest that the filter would not affect 0 star trades within the fellowship. If that was in some way offensive to the fellowship members then the archmage can deal with it. I don't see why the filter would be necessary within the fellowship.

If you see nothing wrong with 0 star trades then of course you would not use the filter.

Personally I would want the filter to be a toggle within the trader, not a semi-permanent setting. In this way I can see who is trying to corner the market on particular sentients and be sure not to trade with them when they offer 3-star trades (typically with just enough of a discount to make it three star) to build up their inventory for later sale at 0-star. I've actually seen a player with offers posted for 0-star and 3-star trades for a particular sentient at the same time if you can believe it.

I can assure you that for me, clicking a filter box would be much easier than paging through 0 and 1 star sentients to find 2-star trades that at the moment I do not have enough goods to fulfill (which are sorted in amongst the 0 and 1 star trades). As I mentioned earlier, I may make an intermediate trade or use a time booster so that I can make the trade while it is still available.
 

Deleted User - 849777001

Guest
Here's an idea: Instead of losing the players who mesh with your playstyle, but not with that of the FS, can you talk to them to see if there's any interest in moving to a new FS? If there is, you can look for FS's that need to grow by having new members, but already have a good mix of players at different levels within the game. It's hard to help each other if you're all at the same place with the same needs, even if you know what you're doing lol! Once you know if/how many players want to move, you have a couple choices:
You could form your own small FS, mainly to give yourselves time to screen possibilities. @crackie is spot on about FS's needing you more than you need them. A good FS screening tool is ElvenStats. Select the FS tab at the top and enter the name of any FS. It'll give you a page for that FS showing all members. Here's a link to the one you're currently in on Arrendyl: EiLeNeva
Scroll down a bit and you'll see the list of members showing their Chapter, boosted goods, and way more info than you'll probably want or need, lol! Look at those with the black triangle next to their name. On PC browser you can hover over the triangle and get a popup telling you the last time there was a change in that player's score, a pretty good indicator of their activity level.
Posting now so you see this before you quickly run to a FS of 1: Remember FS's need members. You'll be competing with all those FS's to get players in a new FS. Still, if you decide to do an FS of 1 while you screen FS's, that will give you access to tourneys and stuff while you look around.
Thanks so much...yall are awesome!
I won't do anything rash...
I'm learning so much from each of you. With all of your experience & help, I know I'll be able to make an informed decision!
First, look at their fellowship description. Start with fellowships with people you know from the forum or other places. If you are on Khelonar, you'd look at Starship Valiant-, for instance.

Second, you can go to the forum for your world and open "members seeing fellowships" and put your name in there with a description about for what you are looking in a fellowship. You will get responses as most people don't know about that option and us AM's watch (and swoop in -- LOL) when somebody posts something there.

Third, and related, you can go to the same forum and pick "fellowships seeking members" There are always a few...like mine which has openings...and you can respond there.

Fourth, you can go to elvenstats.com and look up potential fellowships, see if they are active (and how active) and all that.

Finally, you should remember that it may take a couple tries. Stick with a fellowship only so long as it's meeting your needs and you are comfortable with the pace and people. Once you've been there a few weeks you should know that.

AJ
Good info...Thank you!
It's been great to find a game I really enjoy...and find that I am surrounded by folks that understand, share my excitement...and are willing to help me play better, so I can enjoy it more.
It's rare to find a "no/low drama" haven in today's crazy world.
 

Yavimaya

Scroll-Keeper
How does one find a good fellowship? This my second fail...
First step is to find an active one. Second step is to check out elvenstats page. You can look at the fellowships on there as well. You can also check them out in the game.
There is also a place on here to go to post if you are seeking to join an active fs.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
I can assure you that for me, clicking a filter box would be much easier than paging through 0 and 1 star sentients to find 2-star trades that at the moment I do not have enough goods to fulfill (which are sorted in amongst the 0 and 1 star trades). As I mentioned earlier, I may make an intermediate trade or use a time booster so that I can make the trade while it is still available.

So it's the initial placement of the 2-star trades for which you don't have the goods, that is the problem You don't like scanning through, finding them, doing either a time instant production of the goods needed or finding an intermediate trade, and then going back to get that trade (since you now have the goods to do so).

I do wonder how many people actually scroll through the 0 and 1 star trades they can't (yet) take to find the 2-star ones they want? I've never done that but I've never done a lot of things that are perfectly reasonable to do. And thus, there may be a lot of people who do this, especially in sentient goods.

Of the two methods to get the goods, the use of time instance to produce enough means that when you reopen the trader the target 2-star will be above all the 0 and 1 star trades so there would be no need for a filter.

On the other hand, if you take an intermediate trade to get enough goods, I wonder if the target 2-star trade still remain mixed up with the "not enough goods" 0 and 1 star trades? Or will it at least move into the "enough goods" area where one would suppose it would be in the 2-star area. If it doesn't move though, and remains in the middle of the 0 and 1 star trades, then one could just use the "work around," close the trader and reopen it. That will put the target 2-star in the 2-star area since you now have enough goods for it.

So the amount of programming needed might be small, but the benefit, I believe, would be only for those who scroll through the 0 and 1 star trades looking for things they want and can get via a time instant or two, or an intermediate trade. And the "toggle" they can use is to close and reopen the trader. Not a lot of effort in that, but still, to be honest, a bit more painful than checking a box. In the end I'm still not convinced this idea is worth the effort and would rather the devs spend time on something else.

Having said all that I have to admit it's a good idea and I'd like to see it occur....but only after a few other things are done. It would make finding your fs's 0 and/or 1 star trades easier. And since, it seems to me, there are a lot of them in the sentient goods, it would probably help those people who do trade a lot in sentient goods.

AJ


Just my opinion.

AJ
 

Deleted User - 849411552

Guest
Hi AJ

My neighbourhood has a lot of trading opportunities for Standard goods, so I never had to bother with looking for trades that I could not make yet. Although I have done intermediate trades fairly often - I confess I always like the feeling when I do so because at least 3 players will be happy to have received what they are looking for.

Its only since I've started trading in sentients that I've had to look for trades that I could not make yet. I think you are right, making an intermediate trade will not alter the position of the trade (that I can now make) among the 0 and 2 star trades unless I exit and re-enter the Trader. I actually don't mind that so much, because I typically remember which page it was on.

As you say, if I exit the Trader to do some time-boosting to get the goods I need, then the trade will have moved to the front pages - which is sometimes confusing but no big deal.

I think the problem with trading in sentients on Sinya Arda is that the server is relatively new and there are less active players in Chapter 12 or greater. And because there is a smaller market, it is more easily manipulated by those seeking to create artificial monopolies. There are about four players that do so, from two different fellowships.

They will target a particular sentient and try to scoop up all available sources in the morning, for resale at an indecent profit in the evening. I've noticed that many players seem to be avoiding them, but there must be enough customers to make it "worth their while". I always trade at par, but there is nothing I can do to prevent them from buying up my sentients to form part of their stock.

It seems that the game in these conditions becomes a simulator of 19th century capitalism. Most modern democracies have anti-trust legislation to prevent these excesses. In real life it is not only the consumer that suffers, but non-competitive markets also depress business activity in general, so the whole economy becomes inefficient. In my perhaps rather cynical view, I suspect the political roots of anti-trust legislation have less to do with the consumer and more to do with creating an efficient and overall more profitable capitalist economy.

Judging by the forums, there seem to be quite a few people that are frustrated by these artificial monopolies in sentients, which somewhat reduce the fun potential of the game, particularly on the smaller servers. Having a "star" filter might provide Elvenar with some degree of anti-trust protection, without being overly restrictive - but maybe it doesn't go far enough, I don't know.

David
 

Deleted User - 849777001

Guest
To be fair, that's why I mentioned that the star sorting is done after the sort is done to determine whether or not the trade is actually possible (e.g. you have the goods needed to take the trade), so people may think they're missing out if they see at the very bottom of the list 3 or 2 star trades but neglect to see that they cannot take them without constructing additional pylons gathering more goods

EDIT: I also see that the OP has sentient goods in their display. I don't know how that changes the sort order, if it does, since I'm not at that point in the game yet. I can't imagine it being any different with respect to sorting, but I keep hearing that the sentients market is awful in general.

EDIT2: This seems to be the sort order on the browser version. I haven't done enough trading with the app version to be confident that this is the same
I don't believe I've ever seen "sentient goods" trades listed on my tablet (the app?)...but I do see trades listed by star level...and most of the trades I do see, are from people in my immediate Neighborhood, and from my FS members.
I am confused by one of the two buttons that isolates the FS trades, and NO FEE trades.
What is a NO FEE trade...(oops, my newbie is showing )
 

Zoof

Well-Known Member
I don't believe I've ever seen "sentient goods" trades listed on my tablet (the app?)...but I do see trades listed by star level...and most of the trades I do see, are from people in my immediate Neighborhood, and from my FS members.
I am confused by one of the two buttons that isolates the FS trades, and NO FEE trades.
What is a NO FEE trade...(oops, my newbie is showing )
The "No Fee" option filters out trades that tack on an additional 50% goods fee for people outside of your immediate (discovered) neighborhood. This is something the game itself charges and the other player doesn't see a single bit of that (like driver fees on pizza deliveries). Those are indicated by the small "!" icon next to some of the trades. Mobile gives no indication that this is the case but on the browser, hovering over that symbol gives you the details on what it means. As a consequence, the trade appears more lop-sided and (most often) reduces its star rating without the other person ever knowing.

Deploying the Blooming Trader Guild Ancient Wonder can help reduce that fee. A fully upgraded BTG completely cancels the fee.

Sentient Goods don't appear until you unlock them in Chapter 12 (Elementals)
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
Hi AJ

I think the problem with trading in sentients on Sinya Arda is that the server is relatively new and there are less active players in Chapter 12 or greater. And because there is a smaller market, it is more easily manipulated by those seeking to create artificial monopolies. There are about four players that do so, from two different fellowships.

They will target a particular sentient and try to scoop up all available sources in the morning, for resale at an indecent profit in the evening. I've noticed that many players seem to be avoiding them, but there must be enough customers to make it "worth their while". I always trade at par, but there is nothing I can do to prevent them from buying up my sentients to form part of their stock.

David

You are probably right that some players have attempted to game the system and collect a lot of sentient goods via zero star trades. The problem is, though, they are only offering what those who want those goods are willing to pay for those goods. In other words, knowing there is a shortage of those goods, they "buy low" and "sell high." As supply increases (i.e. more people produce having arrived at the chapter where sentient goods are needed), what the market will bear will go down. That's just market forces.

It's not an 19th century capitalist scenario because, unlike the "robber barons" the supply can easily grow. "Rober Barons" dominated by controlling supply. Rockefeller simply bought out or forced out those who offered supplies, then raised his prices as high as the market would allow. The Sherman Antitrust act fixed that by giving the government the ability to break up Standard Oil and thus increase supply/competition.

In any case, there is always a cost to being the first into a new market. Usually you pay a lot more. And that too, is a choice you can easily change by not being the first into that market.

AJ
 

Deleted User - 849411552

Guest
You are probably right that some players have attempted to game the system and collect a lot of sentient goods via zero star trades. The problem is, though, they are only offering what those who want those goods are willing to pay for those goods. In other words, knowing there is a shortage of those goods, they "buy low" and "sell high." As supply increases (i.e. more people produce having arrived at the chapter where sentient goods are needed), what the market will bear will go down. That's just market forces.

It's not an 19th century capitalist scenario because, unlike the "robber barons" the supply can easily grow. "Rober Barons" dominated by controlling supply. Rockefeller simply bought out or forced out those who offered supplies, then raised his prices as high as the market would allow. The Sherman Antitrust act fixed that by giving the government the ability to break up Standard Oil and thus increase supply/competition.

In any case, there is always a cost to being the first into a new market. Usually you pay a lot more. And that too, is a choice you can easily change by not being the first into that market.

AJ
Yes, I understand what you are saying. But I suggest that these players are creating an "artificial monopoly". More specifically, it would be quite unlikely that there really is an actual shortage of Elven Tree Gum in Sinya Arda, compared to the other two basic sentients. The distribution of Elven Tree Gum supply should be approximately even across the game world, so there should be equal availability of it for players who consume sentients. Instead, an artificial monopoly is created by players buying up large quantities of Elven Tree Gum, then selling it later for a huge profit.

A natural monopoly would be analogous to that of lobsters, that can only be collected off the northeast coast of North America. This product is expensive because the supply is geographically limited and the demand is high. No lobsters are found in Kansas or California, and we do not have a practical and cost-effective technology for raising them there. Anti-trust legislation does not apply to natural monopolies.

Returning to the crude petroleum market, OPEC, the international cartel, controls supply to maintain high prices (which beneficially works to encourage the development of energy alternatives - but that's another story). If the cartel were internal to a particular nation, that country's anti-trust legislation would apply to it (as in the "Robber Barons" scenario), but there is no international body that can effectively control an international petroleum cartel.

Of course, there are many sources of crude petroleum outside of OPEC, such as Canada and the United States, which somewhat limit OPEC's aspirations. Just as, in Sinya Arda, there are many players who trade Elven Tree Gum at par. But the "restraint of trade" that the "Rockfeller wanna-bees" impose does interfere with the enjoyment of the game for many players.

I have the luxury of being retired, so I can scoop up my supplies of Elven Tree Gum by checking for it at various times of day. But for many players, their opportunities are more limited. Prime time occurs after work and before the sentient spoilage that happens during the night. This is when the "helpful" monopolists market the stock they have accrued. They are getting a nice premium for short term storage. :)

Yes, there is a choice of not being the first into the market - but are you suggesting that Chapter 12+ players just "slow their roll" or even stop playing for some undefined period of months? Is that what InnoGames really wants? They are the international body who could control the operation of player cartels. :D

Cheers - David
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I've been putzing around after FA to build up all my T5 and T6 factories before I reach those chapters. I'm almost done with that task so I've decided maybe I should build a bunch more T4s and just sit around taking everyone's Tree Gum trades since there are so many trade requests for them in Ceravyn. Also, I think I just need the extra practice of selecting the right items to produce in the right factories. This morning, I learned I had all my steel factories (my T1 boost) making platinum (not my sentient boost) overnight. :( Just when I thought I got the hang of finally getting my sentient factories to make Tree Gum instead of planks, I'm now making sentients with my non-sentient factories! Ugh. So the Amuni chapter is going to open with me making sentients over and over like the opening of The Simpsons where Bart has to repeatedly write the same sentence on the chalkboard.
 

Deleted User - 849411552

Guest
I've been putzing around after FA to build up all my T5 and T6 factories before I reach those chapters. I'm almost done with that task so I've decided maybe I should build a bunch more T4s and just sit around taking everyone's Tree Gum trades since there are so many trade requests for them in Ceravyn. Also, I think I just need the extra practice of selecting the right items to produce in the right factories. This morning, I learned I had all my steel factories (my T1 boost) making platinum (not my sentient boost) overnight. :( Just when I thought I got the hang of finally getting my sentient factories to make Tree Gum instead of planks, I'm now making sentients with my non-sentient factories! Ugh. So the Amuni chapter is going to open with me making sentients over and over like the opening of The Simpsons where Bart has to repeatedly write the same sentence on the chalkboard.
Ceravyn is also a new world, so I guess the sentient market would be smaller, like Sinya Arda. Curious that there is also an apparent shortage of Tree Gum.

Well, building more Tree Gum manufactories would be helpful for everyone, including you!
 
Top