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Other A possible inducement for players to do more helps

Discussion in 'Ideas and Suggestions' started by Vergazi, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. Vergazi

    Vergazi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2018
    It might be effective to have a small wildcard thing where after you get the three help chests from doing helps, one could have, perhaps, a 1% chance of getting another chest from each and every additional neighborly help that is done, either in the fs or on the world map. I believe this would a a small enough "give" if we want to use that term, in order for Inno to "get" more clicks that may get players to possibly invest more in the game they love. Additionally, I suspect it might generally improve the level of interaction between map neighbors. It would be a tweak to an existing mechanic, so hopefully it would not be a major change codewise if it were implemented.
     
  2. Loki Lyesmith

    Loki Lyesmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Players complain that there is already far too much clicking in this game as it is. Adding something with the express purpose of generating more of something people hate is not going to increase the joy around here. A one percent chance is certainly not enough to inspire someone who already has issues with all of the incessant clicking to do more of it. I assist my FS, players who pick up my trades if they're in my map area, and players who are consistently cool beans, and that's it. Nothing is going to change that.
     
  3. Gath Of Baal

    Gath Of Baal Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2016
    Better yet, just Un Nerf the Crystal Lighthouse / Bell Spire.. I went from visiting everyone on the world map and Fellowship daily to just visiting the fellowship. After I get my 3rd chest I have to force myself to do the rest of the fellowship visits
     
  4. Vergazi

    Vergazi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2018
    Socrates28 and shimmerfly like this.
  5. Nonchalant Antipathy

    Nonchalant Antipathy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2019
    I'm totally down with this idea. There are players that consistently visit everybody and giving them a chance to earn more chests would be a decent reward for their time and dedication, so I'd prefer to see a higher percentage, but any would be nice. It's not like this would force people to visit more.

    @Gath Of Baal, I'd build the darned thing again if they unnerfed the Dinky Lighthouse. The goods it gave weren't overpowered at all, and I don't understand why they took it away in the first place.
     
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  6. Emberguard

    Emberguard Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2019
    +1

    Better yet:
    - Give the option between direct visit aiding (desktop) and quick aid (mobile) for both platforms and you’ll likely see some increase even if only a small one

    - allow treasure chests to be given to quick aid as well.
     
  7. Crowella

    Crowella Active Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Does Inno want to induce us to do more helps? If so, why?
     
    Socrates28 likes this.
  8. Vergazi

    Vergazi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2018
    It's been widely said on these forums that increased clicks increases the likelihood that some players will spend diamonds. So, I suppose one would have to include a button to "complete all helps" in return for a number of diamonds. It wouldn't necessarily have to be a large amount of diamonds, since doing it everyday would quickly add up. That would take care of the players who do want to help other players and their fellows, but don't want to take much time doing it everyday. Those who do helps now would probably keep doing what they are doing. As far as players complaining about too much clicking in the game the solution is simple...don't click. No one is forcing you to click or not to click. Perhaps if Inno unnerfed the Lighthouse like @Gath Of Baal suggested this would, together with a paid "help all" button and a 1% chance per additional chest beyond the first three, might help some and potentially line Inno's pockets a bit. But, how much would the "help all" button cost in diamonds...some ask? Idk...I haven't been an actual buyer of diamonds as yet so It would probably be an uninformed opinion to comment of that specific question, but I would think no more than 5-10. Many instances exist in the game to use very small amounts of diamonds already, such as finishing up upgrades faster and productions in the MA, etc. Small diamond uses for convenience sake are clearly not unprecedented and are "at will".

    edited for grammar
     
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  9. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Players have assumed it was the goods, but in retrospect, each chest also contains something else. A player with 350 neighbours could conceivably count on roughly 150 relics a day, another 100 spells, and probably 50 KP/day.

    Aside from the other mentions, increased interaction with other players will significantly increase the retention of new players. Consider if a new player got help from 30 people instead of 3 each day.
     
  10. Nonchalant Antipathy

    Nonchalant Antipathy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2019
    I missed that part of the evolution of the Wonder. When I had a Lighthouse/Spire, the amount of chests remained the same, but you got a small amount of nonboosted goods for each neighbor you aided, in the same manner you receive supplies when returning help, whether active or not. A neat little increase in goods, especially since I still visited all at that time, but it didn't have a huge impact, more just a bit of frosting for something I already did.

    Glad you mentioned the player retention thing, which I believe is the most important part, so I didn't have to. There are very few ways in which to interact with neighbors, and Inno should make the features that already exist to do so more attractive.
     
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  11. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    The lighthouse is what provides the bonus goods (and they are boosted, not non-boosted, always). The chests exist for every player whether they have a lighthouse or not, and they always get a relic, spell, or KP. The lighthouse had no effect on those.
     
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  12. Nonchalant Antipathy

    Nonchalant Antipathy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2019
    Aye, I thought we might have gotten tangled up on what we were talking about; I was referring specifically to the Lighthouse in the section you quoted. There's always only been three chests awarded, far as I know, when it comes to base neighborly help. I remember being happy about the addition of chests, then disappointed that there were so few given. XD

    And I finally realized that my wording is still ambiguous. I was originally grumbling about the extra goods provided by the Lighthouse being taken away, but mistook your response as meaning that it, at one point, granted extra chests, too.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2019
    Socrates28 likes this.
  13. Loki Lyesmith

    Loki Lyesmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Count all of the clicks you make every time you log in to the game. Nearly every single thing we do in the game requires a click. So even simpler, don't play the game, I suppose. ;)
     
  14. Vergazi

    Vergazi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2018
    Treason! :eek:
     
  15. Loki Lyesmith

    Loki Lyesmith Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    laughtingoutloud-icon.png

    +1

    This idea I like. In FOE we have a "collect all" option for everything produced in your city, which costs 5 diamonds. Many players have been asking for a 'help all' option there too, but we all know that's never going to happen. Their interface and game mechanic is different from ours, so possibly it could work out for us.
     
  16. Crowella

    Crowella Active Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Neighborly help is not all that helpful for very new players. Very new players have no culture items that can be helped (unless they bought the one for diamonds or started during an event) and don't usually benefit that much from extra culture (if a very new player has an event building, it probably provides plenty of culture without neighborly help. and only have two levels of builders hut. Building times are already extremely short, so motivating builders doesn't make that much of a difference. Basically you end up with a lot of coins, which are nice, but you probably get a lot of coins from residences anyway, and without a trader you have nothing to do with them. Even with a trader, coins are of limited utility early in the game. Usually you can't return most of the neighborly help because it comes from neighbors you haven't discovered, so you don't benefit from getting supplies.

    Access to players willing to trade for your goods is actually far more beneficial early in the game than neighborly help, but Inno chooses to limit that through the use of the trader fee and limits on trade partners. I don't have a beef with this, just pointing out that Inno's primary motivation in their design of features in which players interact with each other does not necessarily seem to be to make gameplay more effective for new players.

    Neighborly help is much more beneficial to players who have medium to large cities with many cultural buildings and/or have a higher need for coins because they are more advanced in the game.

    In sum, retaining new players seems unlikely to be a motivation for Inno wanting to encourage neighborly help. If it were, surely they could have developed something more effective. So ... why do they want to? If they do?
     
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  17. Vergazi

    Vergazi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2018
    Whoah! I don't know what world you live in, but I have a tiny city I'm tinkering with in my huge amounts of spare time and I freakin' love all the NH I get, especially the MH helps. Gold you say? Give it to me! Hell yeah I'll take all the gold I can get and buy kp with it to jumpstart my city. Or I can upgrade buildings sooner and take better advantage of this event that's going on atm. What's not to love about NHs? And....if new players who say many times the game is too dang slow to get fun ( with larger city and more to do ) might be able to get to the "fun stages" a little quicker...could that not possibly lead to new players hanging around and spending diamonds and/or just playing more and into the future? :D
     
  18. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    First, that's completely untrue. New players are frequently short of coin and supplies to continue. Help is not one way. Getting to return help 20 or 30 times a day (without even being in a FS) would give them a substantial source of coins and supplies, and give them targets to aim for in their explorations, regardless of their culture level. It might, in fact, make the culture surplus irrelevant. That said, secondly, and more importantly, it fills the world with a sense of live and vibrancy. Knowing that the cities around you are not abandoned is a significant mental pick-me-up.
     
  19. Crowella

    Crowella Active Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2015
    Very new players who are not in a fellowship cannot return neighborly help 20 or 30 times a day because they haven't scouted that far yet. Unless they've overshot for their chapter. I'm speaking here for example of players in chapter 1, who should not scout more than 10 provinces and thus have perhaps 10-15 discovered neighbors at most.

    It would be interesting to see where players "drop off" in terms of gameplay. Based on my observation of dead cities around me, of course the steepest dropoff is almost immediately after people complete the tutorial (or even before). That's probably 75% of the new players right there. Another 10-15% don't get their tier 1 factories beyond level 1 or 2 (or never build them and upgrade barracks and armories and try to fight their way all the way through, which doesn't seem to work very well). Then there's another dropoff around the point of entry into making tier 2 goods (you will often see a dead city with one or two tier 2 goods factories but no progress beyond that). I've seen some evidence that people drop out after beginning new guest races, based on having one or two guest race buildings but not fully implemented (and usually a fair amount of empty space). However, this is at most 1% of the dead cities I've looked at. (I consider a city dead if there's no tournament performance or score change on elvenstats.)

    If the point is to keep newish players playing longer, I'm not sure neighborly help as its currently configured has substantial impact in any of those scenarios. Fellowship membership and access to wisdom and advice probably has more impact. Would be interesting to see the results of the surveys they send out to players to stop playing.
     
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  20. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    That's the point we're trying to make. Neighbourly help needs to be worth doing if it is going to achieve the goals it aims for.

    Twenty or thirty extra helps a day is a random number to make a point about activity. More people helping is more opportunity for coin and/or supplies. Those are things that small cities need.

    And to reassert it, you focused on what I consider the least important point. It's far more important for very new players to feel like the game isn't abandoned, than whether or not they can return help for everyone who helps them. A world that feels empty is a problem for any game. It's why the drop-out rate for people who end up on the forums is much lower than the drop-out rate for the general population. We know that there are other people playing, and the sense of community helps make the game more interesting.
     

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