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New Game Features Allowing more than 1 builder on a Build or Upgrade

Discussion in 'Ideas and Suggestions' started by able99, Jan 1, 2019.

  1. Xelenia

    Xelenia
    Senior Forum Moderator
    Elvenar Team

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2017
    I may....or I may not :p
     
    shimmerfly likes this.
  2. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    I hope my comments didn't come across as either discouraging or thinking you are discouraged. One of the weaknesses of English is that "if you do get discouraged so easily here" can be interpreted as me thinking you are discouraged, when I didn't intend that.

    The most important point is that for an idea to have the best chance of success it needs someone invested in it, to act as a cheerleader. If you don't feel up to that, the idea will have a tough time. I'm not the person to champion it.
     
    Tedious likes this.
  3. shimmerfly

    shimmerfly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    I have to agree that I'm not sold on it. The benefits would have to be clearly defined. Another tech to get through on the tech tree does not appeal to me, and another AW doesn't either. Needs work :cool:
     
  4. able99

    able99 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2018
    Ashrem,
    Your comments were fine and pleased to get them. The issue was on my end having never been to the beta server.

    shimmerfly,
    Llet me explain the genesis of the idea to illustrate the benefits.
    In Dwarves I needed to build the portal, granite mines, copper foundries, while at the same time wanting to upgrade residences, workshops, manufacturing and barrack to the higher levels allowed in dwarves.
    If wanted to upgrade a manufacturing, but I needed more population and I had to wait for a residence upgraded to complete. If I used the builder on a different build then it would not be available when I'd want to start overnight long upgrade. There were many obstacles, similar to those described by kayleegrrl in later chapter.
    I always tried to keep everything busy and not waste any production time on anything. It became challenging to juggle everything. Often it would be better to hold a builder back waiting for some resource before starting a build. My builder was idle. Then I thought, why couldn't he help the other builder finish an ongoing build, after all he had his own tools.
    We all strive to keep everything moving and producing. Having the ability to utilize 2nd builder on a project made lots of sense to me. Its not just the reduced time, but its also keeping him busy. I think most players will find a way to benefit from the feature.
    You say the concept needs work. How would you improve it.
     
    shimmerfly likes this.
  5. shimmerfly

    shimmerfly Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2017
    This would speed things up and although your idea makes sense, Inno seems pretty set on keeping it a game of patience..
    That's what I mean when I say you'll have to work for it. Convince people here then convince Inno. Another building and more space taken? That's a lot of convincing :)
     
  6. able99

    able99 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2018
    I appreciate your comment. It will speed up idle wait time once my imaginary AW is upgraded to a sufficient level. (Remember, very cool building...:) )
    But overall I think it will keep you in the game longer if you want the Builders Guild AW, and engaged with the skill in using it effectively. Really no change if you opt to skip it other than one more research, which INNO would like.
    That too could be eliminated if its is combined with an existing research say Ancient Ground. There are many occasions where multiple things are unlocked with one research.
    If this is ever actually done we all know its INNO who will decide if extra research is required or if its added as another item to an existing research. Players will like that. Its a common complaint in this thread.
     
    shimmerfly likes this.
  7. able99

    able99 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2018
    When I posted the idea of allowing a 2nd builder on a build, I thought it was original with no one ever suggesting it before. I am wrong. I discovered a similar suggestion Double Builders posted by ThunderingJeff. He did not suggest a Builders Guild AW approach, but I give him credit for introducing the idea before me.
     
    Loki Lyesmith and shimmerfly like this.
  8. Loki Lyesmith

    Loki Lyesmith Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Beta is where everything is tested before it goes to the Live servers.

    I will tell you that no matter how good an idea is, it has to go through the process, and even if it is approved, it may literally take a year or more for it to make it to testing. If it doesn't make it through testing, then it doesn't get implemented. I'm not saying not to make your suggestion there, you should, just don't get ahead of yourself. Ashrem made an absolutely stellar suggestion quite some time back. It passed the suggestion phase, getting all of the required votes to be forwarded to the developers, and nothing was heard about it in Elvenar after that.

    If you are interested in checking out Beta, go here https://beta.elvenar.com/ and start a game account. After that, you can register for the Beta forum.

    Good luck with your idea. :)
     
    shimmerfly likes this.
  9. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    I didn't realize you thought it was original. If it seems pretty straight-forward, it's probably been brought up before. I know there are four specific threads about this in the past, along with a number of times it's been proposed in another form, or brought up in other threads.

    Besides ThunderingJeff in June of 2017, there's Edeba earlier that year, teeAon in Dec 2016, and Breann in Oct 2016, plus one for a spell to allow it by My Shadow in May 2016. I even suggested turning the builder into a mini-game, in which you could adjust both the number of builders and the number of resources in order to optimize the time it takes, and so that a person with not enough of something could still build, but it would take longer. I attracted a whole two votes, one for and one against.

    Ideas that have merit need to get brought up again every now-and-then. It keeps people thinking and increases the chance that someone will be inspired enough to shepherd it all the way through the process.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
    Loki Lyesmith and shimmerfly like this.
  10. SoggyShorts

    SoggyShorts Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2016
    The AW idea is interesting, but unless they do a serious shift in the tech tree, it wouldn't be available to players until after chapter 14.

    Perhaps it would be an all-around simpler thing to just let the Builders hut be upgraded?
    Levels 1-5 each add a builder
    Levels 6-9 allow an additional builder on the same project.
    Sells diamonds, but since players can get free diamonds from quests and wishing wells it's available to everyone.
    Whether upgrading changes the size of the hut is open to debate, and what effect adding a builder has is too, as is cost.

    Maybe
    2 builders on 1 project (level 6 BH required) is 125% efficient
    3 builders on 1 project (level 7 BH required) is 150% efficient
    4 builders on 1 project (level 8 BH required) is 175% efficient
    5 builders on 1 project (level 9 BH required) is 200% efficient

    Or non-linear going from 125% to 300%
    Or more generous going up 50% each builder/level.
    Etc
     
    Tedious and Ashrem like this.
  11. able99

    able99 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2018
    I felt pretty good thinking I had an original Idea, but I am actually happier the concept has been around much longer. I have a better appreciation for Ashrem's suggestion to run poll, and champion the idea in Beta. Thank you to Lori Lyesmith highlighting the path to beta.

    In Ashrem's post referencing many of the previous times the idea was discussed , begs the question "Why has this idea not been introduce in beta before by any of the the people suggesting it earlier? And if it has, What happened?"

    Now I feel obligated to further research the past history of the idea, in this forum and in beta. This is starting to sound like it will take as long as my getting thru the Dwarves Chapter, or worst, Orcs or beyond.

    Although I love this game, and would like to see the 2nd builder concept introduce in some form, I'm not sure I want to commit the time needed to champion this to a conclusion. Someone else needs to step forward to champion the idea.

    Thank you everyone who chimed in.
     
  12. Enevhar Aldarion

    Enevhar Aldarion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2016
    So I just skimmed through this thread and did not look at those older, similar idea threads at all, so this may just be a repeat. lol

    Each builder speeds up a construction by 10%. for someone with a maxed Builder's Hut, that means five separate time reductions available. Here is a simple option. Each builder applied after the first reduced construction time by another 5%. For example, with a full Builder's Hut, you could speed up five different constructions by 10% each, or apply all five to the same building and speed it up by 25%. That is not overpowered at all and it would give those people something to use the extra builders on when they only need to do one or two constructions. I would be very happy to reduce my main hall upgrade time by 25%, rather than 10% and have four more builders sitting there doing nothing.
     
  13. Alistaire

    Alistaire New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2018
    Or maybe Inno would look at it as "something that would encourage people to buy extra builders". Putting 2 builders on a thing wouldn't actually speed up building either, 2 buildings taking 2 days each to upgrade with 1 builder on each vs 1 day with 2 builders on 1 building still means the same time spent to upgrade 2 buildings. So then the only real boost is still buying more builders, which Inno wants people to do.
     
  14. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    That might seem correct at low levels, but for most of us with several builders, our builders sit idle for more often than they are busy

    I don't recall that. Are you certain? Can anyone else confirm it?

    You must be in a strange area, or a strange server. I maxed my BH during the first event in which I participated. I just took a look at the top three players in Felyndral, and as I expected, all three have level 5 (max) Builders' huts,
     
  15. Loki Lyesmith

    Loki Lyesmith Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    I was in err...my only excuse is that I have not had my coffee yet. :p

    Why must I, just because I haven't seen dozens of players with maxed builders? I stated that I have not seen it, not that no one has ever done it. It's not like I said that I've done an in-depth study of the maps of the servers I've played on. It's just something I've done while waiting for productions to finish. That's all. :)
     
  16. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    Actually, there's a big difference between "I've never seen" something and "I haven't seen dozens" because the former implies that it is a rare occurrence. It is, in fact, not all that unusual.
     
  17. Loki Lyesmith

    Loki Lyesmith Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Oh my lord...I need a pot and a half of coffee this morning. LOL
     
  18. Ashrem

    Ashrem Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2016
    We all have those mornings.
     
    Loki Lyesmith likes this.
  19. Loki Lyesmith

    Loki Lyesmith Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    This is very, very true. I seem to be having more than usual lately.
     
  20. able99

    able99 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2018
    I wanted to see if I left this idea to stew for a while, would anyone still visit this thread. Nice to see some of you are still commenting here.

    I was hoping a consensus on how the idea should be implemented would develop, for either upgrading the builders hut, or implementing a new AW. Personally, I prefer the AW approach, but took to heart the comment that each chapter has only 2 AW's. Adding an other one early on throws a monkey wrench into the design of the game.
    Then I wondered, Does INNO keeps statistics how many people build each AW. They must. Is there one that is not very popular and could be a candidate for a replacement. Of course I realize, the least popular AW may be someone's favorite, but that's life.
    I built the Needle of the Tempest in my city, never upgrade it and hate having it. I consider getting rid of it every week of so, whenever I need more space. Then I wondered, when the Needle was introduce, what did it replace??
    Bingo, Let replace the Needle with a Builders Guild AW. Same footprint, upgrade parameters, and benefits on upgrades...
    Any support or comments on this revised idea??? Before I consider promoting on Beta I want some consensus here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2019

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