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    Your Elvenar Team

Ambassadors should not......

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
I apologize for failing to clearly explain my thoughts on the role of a successful AM. I was trying reference from a game of my youth to explain the power relationship. My point was that the AM has virtually ZERO Power. People come and go at will. Yes, the AM can write rules (that no one has to follow) and can drop people (and have no members) and change titles, but those actions are of little real consequence. The only thing that matters in a successful fellowship is the relationships developed and the sense of accomplishment, teamwork and belonging - basically, "Is the fellowship fun?" Policing suggest a threat of coercive force, impossible in Elvenar. I regret my example missed the mark.
I agree the Archmage and mages are glorified babysitters of grown adults, yet some people covet the titles. I don’t really give out honorific mage titles though because in a competitive FS, almost everyone is an overachiever, but not everyone is capable of management duties. Not every all-star makes good managers and some of the best managers were mediocre players in their day. If you want to be a mage, you have to go above and beyond gameplay and actually do the boring admin stuff of helping run a fellowship, like being available to players, maintaining spreadsheets, and dreadful recruiting. I promoted a first time player to mage because she is a college student with extra free time and enough computer know-how to maintain our spreadsheets. I also agree I do not “own” my players and they are free to come and go as they please. However, I disagree what we say is of little consequence.

Quality control is part of the job if you run a competitive group. I run a Spire-focused FS, but I’ve recently sent out a “Quality Control” message when I noticed people starting to ignore Tourney. Well, I don’t even have a Tourney minimum listed. For the record, we are averaging 15-to-16 chests so this isn’t an issue of missing out on blueprints. It’s about attitude and quality control. I spelled out why I do not have one listed, but said that doesn’t mean tourney is optional here so everyone is on the same page. Then I said if doing both Spire and Tourney is too much, then don’t do it because it will take away from your sense of fun and this is supposed to be a game. BUT it does mean this is not the right fit for both parties involved. We are a place for people who want the extra challenge bc we embrace the extra difficulty and think that makes the game more fun. If it feels like work, it ain’t the place for you. People who don’t want to tourney are free to walk away on their own to find a better suited group for their style of play. Otherwise, they have two weeks to sort out their cities to get it into Spire+Tourney shape, or I am rolling out the Archmage trebuchet in July.

Everyone has RL stuff going on too, myself included. I don’t plan to add poking the same players weekly to complete Spire and Tourney on my todo list, especially when I already have players that tell me they’re going on vacation in Greece or wherever and still manage to finish Spire and get 4k of tourney in, even when it is expected that they should have zero activity for the week! I’ve also let someone stay inactive for a whole month as she got busy selling her house. We can afford to cover for players that want to be here even when RL hits because everyone else is covering for their teammates and not just doing as they please. It is my job to keep the FS one of like-minded playing styles because that’s where most of us derive our fun points. You don’t have that if there is no enforcement from management. Policing doesn’t always have to be coercive force. I left it open for them to walk out on their own or become human projectiles in two weeks. Nobody walked out and I haven’t had to use the trebuchet…yet.
 

Yavimaya

Scroll-Keeper
I agree the Archmage and mages are glorified babysitters of grown adults, yet some people covet the titles. I don’t really give out honorific mage titles though because in a competitive FS, almost everyone is an overachiever, but not everyone is capable of management duties. Not every all-star makes good managers and some of the best managers were mediocre players in their day. If you want to be a mage, you have to go above and beyond gameplay and actually do the boring admin stuff of helping run a fellowship, like being available to players, maintaining spreadsheets, and dreadful recruiting. I promoted a first time player to mage because she is a college student with extra free time and enough computer know-how to maintain our spreadsheets. I also agree I do not “own” my players and they are free to come and go as they please. However, I disagree what we say is of little consequence.

Quality control is part of the job if you run a competitive group. I run a Spire-focused FS, but I’ve recently sent out a “Quality Control” message when I noticed people starting to ignore Tourney. Well, I don’t even have a Tourney minimum listed. For the record, we are averaging 15-to-16 chests so this isn’t an issue of missing out on blueprints. It’s about attitude and quality control. I spelled out why I do not have one listed, but said that doesn’t mean tourney is optional here so everyone is on the same page. Then I said if doing both Spire and Tourney is too much, then don’t do it because it will take away from your sense of fun and this is supposed to be a game. BUT it does mean this is not the right fit for both parties involved. We are a place for people who want the extra challenge bc we embrace the extra difficulty and think that makes the game more fun. If it feels like work, it ain’t the place for you. People who don’t want to tourney are free to walk away on their own to find a better suited group for their style of play. Otherwise, they have two weeks to sort out their cities to get it into Spire+Tourney shape, or I am rolling out the Archmage trebuchet in July.

Everyone has RL stuff going on too, myself included. I don’t plan to add poking the same players weekly to complete Spire and Tourney on my todo list, especially when I already have players that tell me they’re going on vacation in Greece or wherever and still manage to finish Spire and get 4k of tourney in, even when it is expected that they should have zero activity for the week! I’ve also let someone stay inactive for a whole month as she got busy selling her house. We can afford to cover for players that want to be here even when RL hits because everyone else is covering for their teammates and not just doing as they please. It is my job to keep the FS one of like-minded playing styles because that’s where most of us derive our fun points. You don’t have that if there is no enforcement from management. Policing doesn’t always have to be coercive force. I left it open for them to walk out on their own or become human projectiles in two weeks. Nobody walked out and I haven’t had to use the trebuchet…yet.
I like this.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
I agree the Archmage and mages are glorified babysitters of grown adults, yet some people covet the titles. I don’t really give out honorific mage titles though because in a competitive FS, almost everyone is an overachiever, but not everyone is capable of management duties. Not every all-star makes good managers and some of the best managers were mediocre players in their day. If you want to be a mage, you have to go above and beyond gameplay and actually do the boring admin stuff of helping run a fellowship, like being available to players, maintaining spreadsheets, and dreadful recruiting. I promoted a first time player to mage because she is a college student with extra free time and enough computer know-how to maintain our spreadsheets. I also agree I do not “own” my players and they are free to come and go as they please. However, I disagree what we say is of little consequence.

Quality control is part of the job if you run a competitive group. I run a Spire-focused FS, but I’ve recently sent out a “Quality Control” message when I noticed people starting to ignore Tourney. Well, I don’t even have a Tourney minimum listed. For the record, we are averaging 15-to-16 chests so this isn’t an issue of missing out on blueprints. It’s about attitude and quality control. I spelled out why I do not have one listed, but said that doesn’t mean tourney is optional here so everyone is on the same page. Then I said if doing both Spire and Tourney is too much, then don’t do it because it will take away from your sense of fun and this is supposed to be a game. BUT it does mean this is not the right fit for both parties involved. We are a place for people who want the extra challenge bc we embrace the extra difficulty and think that makes the game more fun. If it feels like work, it ain’t the place for you. People who don’t want to tourney are free to walk away on their own to find a better suited group for their style of play. Otherwise, they have two weeks to sort out their cities to get it into Spire+Tourney shape, or I am rolling out the Archmage trebuchet in July.

Everyone has RL stuff going on too, myself included. I don’t plan to add poking the same players weekly to complete Spire and Tourney on my todo list, especially when I already have players that tell me they’re going on vacation in Greece or wherever and still manage to finish Spire and get 4k of tourney in, even when it is expected that they should have zero activity for the week! I’ve also let someone stay inactive for a whole month as she got busy selling her house. We can afford to cover for players that want to be here even when RL hits because everyone else is covering for their teammates and not just doing as they please. It is my job to keep the FS one of like-minded playing styles because that’s where most of us derive our fun points. You don’t have that if there is no enforcement from management. Policing doesn’t always have to be coercive force. I left it open for them to walk out on their own or become human projectiles in two weeks. Nobody walked out and I haven’t had to use the trebuchet…yet.
Good summary,

Tho I do not promote players to mages so they can help on a spreadsheet, they can do that perfectly fine without.
I had 2 mages at a max and run with 1 mage for most of it's existence now.

As mages you are mainly gatekeepers. it's your job to find likeminded players and build a group.
You want players with the same ideas in game so you do not need to motivate them. they want to do it, and therefore no pushing required. and that way no player overextend themselves and keeps having fun in the game and doesnt leave the FS or the game because it "becomes work"


when something new gets out I first try to motivate my fellow members with a form of positivity
For example my initial pitch for the spire was" How to play the spire for free" and then explain how it works and how you can make it easy for yourself and get all those goodies like diamonds and premium buildings

Once you have done your motivation you simply start gatekeeping towards a goal, you got an old member who hates the spire? keep them in there value, after a year that player decides to move on? repace them with someone who loves the spire.

Same with those 19 chests, I cannot expect everyone to improve there game to 6000+, but I can make sure I no longer accept 1600 points members, those fellowships with mighty motivators have reached 19 chests way before us and now no longer exist of underachieve, some of those AM got tired and came to us, just to find back the fun in the game.

It took us much much longer with gatekeeping, but we don't talk about 19 chests, we do not need to motivate, we just get it most of the time.

As an archmage you might not be all powerfull but you have a huge influence on how it performs.



My main gripe with the current ambassador / mage ranking is how it was initially implementen and how warped it is today.
The ambassasor was supposed to be a nice title with only non damaging powers, that could support the fellowship (invite and accept players but not kick players)
The mage is all powerfull and can intervene and kick players (damaging if you have an #!$! that abuses it when he/she is angry)

In the evolution of the game we got more things that need to be managed. for example
  • FA
  • Perks
  • Tourney Archive
  • Spire Archive
When I need to pick in which bucket eah power should be:

  • FA
this should be in the mages bucket, the ability to open chests has a permanent influence in how he FA is enjoyed and it can result in people not recieving prizes. the fact that many fellowships demote all non mages to members tells you everything how this should not fit into the ambassador function.

  • Perks
Perks and how to invest is is also a mage job, the choice directly influences the fellowship and the ability to reset them which you can only do once a month for free can have a mayor impact.

  • Tourney Archive
  • Spire archive
These abilities are amazing addons for ambassadors, this removes the burden of mages to constantly monitor spire and tourney if they can use the points or forces them to be online just before spire / tourney ends. it doesnt hurt anyone as excess points flow back into the archives and it shares the burden of monitoring.


When we look at how it is implemented we see that the "damaging power" of the FA is added to the ambassador and the non damaging power is burdened to the mages. to me it defeats the point of having ambassador titles.

I simply cannot have 25 mages, at some point you will have some dude flipping and going beserk, at that time that person can destroy the fellowship by kicking everyone, even if they come back, they all loose a week of spire/tourney/FA as you are locked out of them for a week.
And even if you gatekeep those people will come to your fellowship at some point, I had a player once who just went nuts over absolutely nothing and destroyed his entire city out of anger. Imagine such a nutcase with mage power.

But now it forces me and my fellow mage to constantly check spire / tourney to add the freebee points. something I would love to delegate to the entire fellowship to do when they see they have the opportunity.
 

MichaelMichael

Active Member
I agree the Archmage and mages are glorified babysitters of grown adults, yet some people covet the titles. I don’t really give out honorific mage titles though because in a competitive FS, almost everyone is an overachiever, but not everyone is capable of management duties. Not every all-star makes good managers and some of the best managers were mediocre players in their day. If you want to be a mage, you have to go above and beyond gameplay and actually do the boring admin stuff of helping run a fellowship, like being available to players, maintaining spreadsheets, and dreadful recruiting. I promoted a first time player to mage because she is a college student with extra free time and enough computer know-how to maintain our spreadsheets. I also agree I do not “own” my players and they are free to come and go as they please. However, I disagree what we say is of little consequence.

Quality control is part of the job if you run a competitive group. I run a Spire-focused FS, but I’ve recently sent out a “Quality Control” message when I noticed people starting to ignore Tourney. Well, I don’t even have a Tourney minimum listed. For the record, we are averaging 15-to-16 chests so this isn’t an issue of missing out on blueprints. It’s about attitude and quality control. I spelled out why I do not have one listed, but said that doesn’t mean tourney is optional here so everyone is on the same page. Then I said if doing both Spire and Tourney is too much, then don’t do it because it will take away from your sense of fun and this is supposed to be a game. BUT it does mean this is not the right fit for both parties involved. We are a place for people who want the extra challenge bc we embrace the extra difficulty and think that makes the game more fun. If it feels like work, it ain’t the place for you. People who don’t want to tourney are free to walk away on their own to find a better suited group for their style of play. Otherwise, they have two weeks to sort out their cities to get it into Spire+Tourney shape, or I am rolling out the Archmage trebuchet in July.

Everyone has RL stuff going on too, myself included. I don’t plan to add poking the same players weekly to complete Spire and Tourney on my todo list, especially when I already have players that tell me they’re going on vacation in Greece or wherever and still manage to finish Spire and get 4k of tourney in, even when it is expected that they should have zero activity for the week! I’ve also let someone stay inactive for a whole month as she got busy selling her house. We can afford to cover for players that want to be here even when RL hits because everyone else is covering for their teammates and not just doing as they please. It is my job to keep the FS one of like-minded playing styles because that’s where most of us derive our fun points. You don’t have that if there is no enforcement from management. Policing doesn’t always have to be coercive force. I left it open for them to walk out on their own or become human projectiles in two weeks. Nobody walked out and I haven’t had to use the trebuchet…yet.
My role as AM is a work in progress. We got our first spire gold during the last FA (we finished #17). I do most of the work managing the fellowship myself or at least it feels that. Lately I have been beefing up (more like cajoling) better tourney performance. We mostly do 13 or 14 chests. Two of us produce 8-9k, another 10-12 fellows do 2.5k to 3.5k each. Our stated minimum average performance is 1k but 2 or 3 are short are short of that goal. Recently I rewrote requirements to 1.5k or 1k with Spire performance to the Lab. A few times now I have pointed out that player are not making minimum requirement. My point is punctuated by identifying the high performing players that left because they felt that everyone was not pulling their share of performance. I have not technically cut anyone but it is getting close to that. Two player that were not performing left on their own as well as a third (a player managing 3 fellows will be dropping one as he is short on time) that will be replaced when I find a new candidate.

I am getting used to the new normal of interactions. I call out the player (privately) identifying that their average is bad, politely asking if there are real life issues behind this as well speaking to the losses we've had I also offer to provide whatever goods they need and point to earlier superior performance. Frankly all of our players have consistently done 2k or more at one time or another. A week or so later I follow up. Typically in the interim, there is no response but the Tourney score goes up to prior levels - I then say thank you or elucidate on the problem of low performance.

Before my fellowship got to this level, the AM role was mostly contacting players that disappeared and then waiting a week or two and dropping the missing player. Earlier still, it was very active recruiting. Now I am mostly asking for performance and reviewing new candidates and accepting them. The requirement are clear for new players and all the new ones meet them. I also stepped up the management part by identifying top performers that speak. I added them as Mages. This promotion is not actually to do much work but mostly to make sure they feel like they belong and know are valued. I put together ratings of all the players and ask their thoughts on how best to manage and promote performance. Basically, I want to ensure that the center of the fellowship does not rot out and has a say on best management practices. Sometime they do some very useful things like advising when things need to happen like prep for the FA or highlighting what we need to do in various activities Overall, AM is a lousy job, but we perform well enough that recruiting new players is not too hard.

On some level, I dominate a lot of the fellowship's activities. I trade give away all my KP to other's AW mostly via fellowship trade threads. My trades represent about 25% of that internal trade (and 50% would mean I closed every trade every time it is available - it takes 2 to trade). As it is, it's been a couple months since I did not have the KP instant to close every available KP trade in my fellowship. Consequently. whenever I see them available, I close them and my AWs are growing rapidly. Meanwhile I also close most fellowship's goods trades. Many of these are Zero star for lower chapter players. I've moved myself up to the top 50 players with my fellowship at #35, Our performance in all other areas (tourney, Spire and FA) are stronger. I generate a lot of goods and KP for AW by various means. I find the best ways to use KPs for AWs is to spend them on others. I also produce a huge amount of goods (about 10-15 million per day) and find that these are most effectively used by lower level players so I close many zero star trades. Ultimately, the only use for excess goods is catering in the Tourney. I do 50 provinces 4 times each every week - not for tourney point but more for the spells generated.

I guess what I am agreeing with you on (which is a disagreement on another level) is that the Mage title is meaningful, but the Ambassador, not so much. Unlike you, my Mages don't do so much work so the title really means is "you are a part of management and the leadership team". They are granted the POWER to remove and add player as well as revising the fellowship description, but in fact never need to do so. Mage or AM, the trick is to have power but not to use it, but rather explain why and when it might be appropriate to use. Since my mages have that power, it is appropriate to share the burden of deciding how best to manage the group. I very much appreciate their advise, but don't actually expect them to do much other than stay in the group, present a united front and present themselves as role models and help other players as needed. I am a spreadsheet guru so that spreadsheet work is mine whether it is identifying best paths in the FA or ideal choices in the events or analyzing the group build out for the FA or how best to cater in the Tourney.

As I suggested AM is a lousy job.
 
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crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Tho I do not promote players to mages so they can help on a spreadsheet, they can do that perfectly fine without.
But now it forces me and my fellow mage to constantly check spire / tourney to add the freebee points. something I would love to delegate to the entire fellowship to do when they see they have the opportunity.
My mages do all these regular mage duties on top of running spreadsheets. Maintaining spreadsheets is a lot of added busywork, but it makes the experience so much smoother and enjoyable for everyone else in the fellowship. To give them all the extra busywork without the recognition and respect is to treat them like unpaid interns. I'm not that kind of person. :) Plus, one of our spreadsheets tracks FA and has a Dynamic Straggler List function to keep track of who still hasn't dumped a badge yet, which is super helpful before they implemented the participation info. They are essentially co-piloting the FA.
I simply cannot have 25 mages, at some point you will have some dude flipping and going beserk, at that time that person can destroy the fellowship by kicking everyone, even if they come back, they all loose a week of spire/tourney/FA as you are locked out of them for a week.
That goes back to what I said about being an All-Star player doesn't mean it automatically makes you a good manager and some of the best managers were not the most stellar players in their day. Remember, some people are great players because it's all ego-driven. They strive/feed on individual achievement of being the "best". Unfortunately, that doesn't always translate to becoming great leaders because some are incapable of putting the team before themselves or listening to suggestions.
As I suggested AM is a lousy job.
From my observations, a lot of players stay in a FS they've outgrown way longer than they should, often out of some misguided sense of loyalty. Likewise, a lot of AM also keep ill-fitted players around longer than they should, mostly because they dread the recruiting process, which is totally understandable. I've concluded I disdain babysitting grown adults more than dreading the recruiting process, but neither really spark any joy so I'm going to Mary Kondo both of them out the window and it's been liberating! I'm not going to spend my time and effort cajoling people to do more. Teeth pulling is not my idea of good use of spare time. They either want to do it or they don't, and it's their choice. Feel free to exercise that choice in a more casual fellowship though! I'm not scared of them leaving or scared I can't find anyone to replace them anymore. If you maintain the quality standard, you will naturally draw the quality players so trust your product. I started the FS to test the thesis that it's actually not that difficult to create a Gold FS from scratch. There are plenty of players who can climb the Spire out there. It's a matter of getting 22 of them under one umbrella. In the past when I was a mage, I didn't have control of personnel. Now I do and I want like-minded playing styles only, but you can be as big or small of a city as long as we share similar group goals. It took me 2 months to get us to Gold, and that included waiting for baby cities to get to chapter 3 to access Spire in our original group of 22. We have a lot of spoiled brats where we are their first and only FS they've known and it's a Gold FS. Archmages need to figure out what they want and then build to it. The mixing of casual and competitive players is what creates most of the problems. Stop torturing yourselves! Let the chips fall as they may and only pick up the pieces that fit.
 

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
I don't actually recruit. I invite anyone who wants to give us a shot to stop on by and see if we are a fit for them. If someone is toxic, I have no problem kicking them. I do keep inactives around a bit longer than I should. But when I do actually boot them for inactivity, I write them a message telling them why and then tell them, even if they aren't going to join back up with us, that they should let me know how they are doing and if I can help. I don't have full fellowships. I wish I did but they are all a work in progress. And ever so slowly we have built a core group of really great people... scores and stuff are way secondary to the fact they we are a great group of peeps.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
My mages do all these regular mage duties on top of running spreadsheets. Maintaining spreadsheets is a lot of added busywork, but it makes the experience so much smoother and enjoyable for everyone else in the fellowship. To give them all the extra busywork without the recognition and respect is to treat them like unpaid interns. I'm not that kind of person. :) Plus, one of our spreadsheets tracks FA and has a Dynamic Straggler List function to keep track of who still hasn't dumped a badge yet, which is super helpful before they implemented the participation info. They are essentially co-piloting the FA.

That goes back to what I said about being an All-Star player doesn't mean it automatically makes you a good manager and some of the best managers were not the most stellar players in their day. Remember, some people are great players because it's all ego-driven. They strive/feed on individual achievement of being the "best". Unfortunately, that doesn't always translate to becoming great leaders because some are incapable of putting the team before themselves or listening to suggestions.

From my observations, a lot of players stay in a FS they've outgrown way longer than they should, often out of some misguided sense of loyalty. Likewise, a lot of AM also keep ill-fitted players around longer than they should, mostly because they dread the recruiting process, which is totally understandable. I've concluded I disdain babysitting grown adults more than dreading the recruiting process, but neither really spark any joy so I'm going to Mary Kondo both of them out the window and it's been liberating! I'm not going to spend my time and effort cajoling people to do more. Teeth pulling is not my idea of good use of spare time. They either want to do it or they don't, and it's their choice. Feel free to exercise that choice in a more casual fellowship though! I'm not scared of them leaving or scared I can't find anyone to replace them anymore. If you maintain the quality standard, you will naturally draw the quality players so trust your product. I started the FS to test the thesis that it's actually not that difficult to create a Gold FS from scratch. There are plenty of players who can climb the Spire out there. It's a matter of getting 22 of them under one umbrella. In the past when I was a mage, I didn't have control of personnel. Now I do and I want like-minded playing styles only, but you can be as big or small of a city as long as we share similar group goals. It took me 2 months to get us to Gold, and that included waiting for baby cities to get to chapter 3 to access Spire in our original group of 22. We have a lot of spoiled brats where we are their first and only FS they've known and it's a Gold FS. Archmages need to figure out what they want and then build to it. The mixing of casual and competitive players is what creates most of the problems. Stop torturing yourselves! Let the chips fall as they may and only pick up the pieces that fit.
what do you consider mage duties?

Nobody in my fellowship has duties, I just build a team that manages itself, I don't use clearly defined roles.
Guess thas not to common because new recruits sometimes ask if I want to do xxx, to which I am often respond "you dont have to ask me for permission you can do that yourself"

Recruiting? I have a recruitment post that I bump every 4-8 weeks or so.
We never approach other players, players have to approach us this saves me both time, and getting the wrong players.
I do not like poaching and if you ask them and they turn out to be douchebags it's hard to refuse them.

When they send us a mail to ask of they can join we do a small background check and then give them an positive answer or a refusal.
Funny part is that sometimes great players will be refused because of the words they use. words they write often say a lot about the character of the person behind it.

And when you get a giant rant about how I dare to refuse "his royal amazing highness" and that I should be glad and "kiss his feet" out of joy he/she is willing to join you know you are right in your decision ;)
 

mucksterme

Well-Known Member
Nobody in my fellowship has duties, I just build a team that manages itself, I don't use clearly defined roles.
Guess thas not to common because new recruits sometimes ask if I want to do xxx, to which I am often respond "you dont have to ask me for permission you can do that yourself"

I just recently had a new person join. They said, "I am on the forum and the FB page. If you want I can post info, that was my job in my old FS"
I was like, "If you have useful info feel free to post. We don't assign people for stuff like that."

Like you we don't have any assigned roles though there are some things that certain people have taken on themselves.

Except for FA boss. We always have someone who decides on paths and such.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
what do you consider mage duties?
Help players with game questions, help newer players streamline cities, recruit, track FA, track wonder society, lead by example in group events, spend Perk archive points, be on the lookout of potential FS issues, and generally be available for other FS members.

You’ve been around the block and it sounds like your FS is pretty old/established. If you don’t even want 1600pt players, then it’s unlikely you are willing to take new players. Therefore, your FS has less hand-holding. That’s fine, well earned, and understandable, esp if you’re getting 19-chests! Personally, I think a well-run FS changes the game for the better. For that reason, I don’t want to exclude new players. You read a lot around here about players in FSs with missing Archmages or half their roster is inactive, but they still don’t know any better than to look for greener pastures. Worse is they DO know better, but stay out of some misguided sense of loyalty. Yeah, you can only help those that want to be helped, but I think it would be a very positive experience for new players to play in a good fellowship and enjoy the game from the beginning in a highly functional FS. I know they just changed the early chapter tech trees too, but I firmly believe chapter 3 cities are capable of climbing full Spires and can be excellent Gold Spire candidates too. Most servers only have 10 or 15 Gold Spire groups so it’s hard to get into one so they will obviously take the more established player over a raw newbie. If we have an opening and the candidate has the right attitude and willingness to improve, I am willing to give them a chance so I am willing to do more teaching and hand-holding til they get their legs under them.
 

SoulsSilhouette

Buddy Fan Club member
I like having new players. Yes, they have tiny cities, but sometimes new players to Elvenar have a perspective that is refreshing. I'm a bit jaded about some stuff (as if you hadn't noticed by some of my posts) but they bring an enthusiasm that is infectious. Yes, some of them move on because they want something different and good luck to them. They all know they are always welcome to come back if we have room, which we mostly do. So if in Khel or Win, you have some players that don't fit your criteria, send them my way. I don't hold their cyberhands but I will help them in whatever way they need if I can. So will my fellowship members because I am happy to say, they are all wonderful.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Help players with game questions, help newer players streamline cities, recruit, track FA, track wonder society, lead by example in group events, spend Perk archive points, be on the lookout of potential FS issues, and generally be available for other FS members.

You’ve been around the block and it sounds like your FS is pretty old/established. If you don’t even want 1600pt players, then it’s unlikely you are willing to take new players. Therefore, your FS has less hand-holding. That’s fine, well earned, and understandable, esp if you’re getting 19-chests! Personally, I think a well-run FS changes the game for the better. For that reason, I don’t want to exclude new players. You read a lot around here about players in FSs with missing Archmages or half their roster is inactive, but they still don’t know any better than to look for greener pastures. Worse is they DO know better, but stay out of some misguided sense of loyalty. Yeah, you can only help those that want to be helped, but I think it would be a very positive experience for new players to play in a good fellowship and enjoy the game from the beginning in a highly functional FS. I know they just changed the early chapter tech trees too, but I firmly believe chapter 3 cities are capable of climbing full Spires and can be excellent Gold Spire candidates too. Most servers only have 10 or 15 Gold Spire groups so it’s hard to get into one so they will obviously take the more established player over a raw newbie. If we have an opening and the candidate has the right attitude and willingness to improve, I am willing to give them a chance so I am willing to do more teaching and hand-holding til they get their legs under them.
Yes my main fellowship is espetblished it's about 7 years old, doesnt mean people who join us have nothing to learn, but it should not be the mage job to provide information and help, thats something we all do.
But remember that we have also been a noobs, but we have always been so that people help eachother no matter what there title is.
Very first fellowship adventure we won, someone good with excel made the first sheet, and someone who liked numbers counted the workshops and factories at competing fellowships. Similar with the very firs FA that had the glorious arch as prize. these are the moment where enthousiasm can kick it up a notch but the bow cannot be in tension all the time or the tensions becomes too high and it fails.

I also helped 2 fellowships of noobs to successfull fellowships in none of them have I been a mage.
I do not see this as a "mage job". people have questions you explain. it should not be that you need a mage title before you can answer question.
It's the job of us all to teach eachother.

As the (Arch)mage me and my fellow mage decide the direction of the fellowship, do we like tournaments? and what do we need to reach that goal? What is our goal in he spire? what is our FA goal? we do not dictate what others should do but can select recruit who have similar ideas and therefore mold the fellowship to our ideals.
This is the prime "job" of the mage in my opinion.

I have so many fellowships seen failing because the bow broke, some lasted longer than others but in the end they all broke.
Several (arc)mages have joined us and quit there fellowships because they found it a job and lost the fun in the game because of it.

To them our fellowship is an eyeopener, you can reach goals without pushing and whining all the time, and they have openly said so by commenting the positivity that "how nice it is that we just do it without asking".

Goals can be little and small, you do not need to be a "big fellowship" to set a goal, as said I have joined noob fellowships and with just a bit of explaining got them to 10 chest in 6-8 weeks (in the old format)
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
but it should not be the mage job to provide information and help
Sure it is because the mage's job is whatever the Archmage defines it as :)
You and I might find it naturally to do help and guide others, but I have been in many FS where the mages don't do anything. These include 10-chest fellowships. Now considering a lot of FS still struggle to get 10th chest, that means most FS are even less organized. Therefore, I would say it is more of the norm that most mages sit around and don't help out. I don't have need for mages that hide in the corner with a name plate so I expect my mages to be seen, available, and approachable.
 

Smooper

Member
From my perspective of taking over a 5 or 6 chest fellowship over a year ago to making it a 10+ chest fellowship within 6 months and still doing spire pushes, I will say there is room for all kinds of fellowships. I don't require anything of anyone, just activity and everyone knows that. So if you are highly competitive and don't feel like doing a misproportioned amount of work, you won't like it here because some players don't participate. The thing about somone who gets 4000 pts in tournament and someone who gets 400 is that the 4000 pt person should be doing it for the challenge and individual rewards in our fellowship, not because of the thought that we can get a few more bonus chests if everyone did the same. Lowkey can be good. I also have a points system on becoming a Mage. It helps keep people engaged. So now we have 8 mages and if players want mage and work for it, I will take 24 mages. There is no negative to it for me. I just want players to have a good experience playing the game and to grow their city.
P.S. I do all the organizing here and have said anyone who wants can do administrative work here but nobody volunteers. Point is, this is all the free time I have to run a fellowship, it won't get any better by myself.
 

MichaelMichael

Active Member
We never approach other players, players have to approach us this saves me both time, and getting the wrong players.
EXACTLY!!!
When they send us a mail to ask of they can join we do a small background check and then give them an positive answer or a refusal.
Funny part is that sometimes great players will be refused because of the words they use. words they write often say a lot about the character of the person behind it.

And when you get a giant rant about how I dare to refuse "his royal amazing highness" and that I should be glad and "kiss his feet" out of joy he/she is willing to join you know you are right in your decision ;)
100% agreed!!!
 

MichaelMichael

Active Member
I have reached an inflection point. We have earned Gold in the Spire twice - four weeks apart. It will be 3 weeks this time, but I want to push to every time eventually. About 11 players go to the top each time. Another 2 or 3 get to the Lab. About 8 barely perform in the spire. I am transforming the fellowship now. I identify the worst performers and am cutting them one at a time and filling back with players that want to perform. I feel some obligation to keep the low performers in the spire if the perform elsewhere, but the logic will not change. Cut out the bottom until I only have players that perform. My criterion for membership rose from 500 to 750 to 1000 to 1500/1000+Lab in the Spire. Frankly, I have reach the point where 1,500 is not that great but I still likely need to replace another 3 to 6 low performers to get to spire gold every week.

BTW, I have no problem accepting low chapter players. The last I added was in Chapter 6, but the key issue is time and desire more than anything else. Re-forcusing a fellowship is a process of evolution not revolution.
 

ajqtrz

Chef
How do you accidentally accept the prizes when you have to open the chest then hit the big green accept button?
View attachment 12854
Yep, one green button to push and not to "reject" "stop" or whatever. Some people don't realize the red "X" in the corner is even there. So, push the green button and carry on" wold be there response. That's how. There should be a second red button, "Stop, and continue with this stage" or something like that. I can't be "reject" because that would mean rejecting the rewards. Perhaps the word "accept" should say "Accept rewards and move to next stage?" I don't know, but I can see how, having opened this, one could see only one option as there is, in the box itself, only one option, the red "X" being a standard part of every window and thus, not unique to this one.

AJ
 
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