DeletedUser12430
Guest
Endless Ex is built...ing. *walks away slowly*
LOL.....I had Endless built for years, but never looked at it like that.
Thanks!
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Your Elvenar Team
Endless Ex is built...ing. *walks away slowly*
LOL.....I had Endless built for years, but never looked at it like that.
Thanks!
DeletedUser19598
Guest
EE is really powerful I have it near level 9, my goal is to take it to 11. I am half dwarves and I play without workshops, I only have 6 small ones at level 1 for cyclical missions because like soggy I realized the There is a difference with the workshops, but I never consider putting the ToS but after reading Soggy it seems that it is very feasible to explore 24/7. PT I have not released it yet, but I throw back the 3 hour limit, but if I still collect twice a day in TP it is better than a workshop, so it will have to be put on. I repeat I had never considered putting the 3 but it seems good idea.
DeletedUser2207
Guest
With 401 scouted, it takes 43:48 hours, but I don't send out a scout as often as I could
As far as my own wonders go, my main city has all but Thrones of the High Men, Enar's Embassy, Maze of the Dark Matter, Sunset Towers, and Lighthouse of Good Neighborhood (Pyramid of Purification is not built *yet* but will be soon). As each non-rune level of an AW gives the same benefit and continues to increase in cost, I prefer to spread my KP out into many wonders instead of putting it all into handful of AWs with decreasing benefits per KP. Also the longer it takes to fill up a level the more bored with it I get
Of course this does hog up more space than focusing on just the space-saving wonders plus a couple of the most beneficial non-space savers, but all the ones I have do have benefits that I appreciate
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Ah yes, this is a difficult choice. Certainly, level 1 has the greatest benefit for each wonder, but after that, should you level up the cheapest one next, thereby getting more bonuses the fastest? Or perhaps push one AW to level 5 because you have the runes to go to level 6 at no additional cost in kp?
Then, of course, there are other factors such as what your current chapter is asking for, or even what you won in the last event.
Did you get some sweet pop&culture buildings? If so, maybe put the GA on the back burner for a while.
Scored a handful of mana huts, or some Seed producing buildings? DA/ETC levels can wait then.
The best wonder to put KP into is for sure a moving target.
DeletedUser2207
Guest
Yes, it's a difficult choice for sure! Although these nice long breaks between chapters helps, since there's plenty of time to work on a bunch of AWs
As far as ETC goes, the seeds can be helpful but I built it for the MM spell boost. When the spell is active on a factory, it gives more goods than Mountain Halls of the same level does, and also it works with sentient goods while mountain halls does not. So with my playstyle, less useful than Mountain Halls, more useful than Crystal Lighthouse
As far as ETC goes, the seeds can be helpful but I built it for the MM spell boost. When the spell is active on a factory, it gives more goods than Mountain Halls of the same level does, and also it works with sentient goods while mountain halls does not. So with my playstyle, less useful than Mountain Halls, more useful than Crystal Lighthouse
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Alright, so I built the pyramid, and it's not great....
91 Treants every 3h at level 1 vs
91 Treants every 13 minutes in my barracks.
That means that the wonder is increasing my military production by less than 1% per collection, and goes up about 0.1% per level.
Unless we get a new way to use sentient goods, I'm not excited about this wonder at all.
Basically, the question is "Would you build the Bulwark, shrewdy, FA, or toads if they only gave the troops?"
I have the room, and I've already built it, but I can't see myself putting any KP into it when I get more out of the other military wonders.
91 Treants every 3h at level 1 vs
91 Treants every 13 minutes in my barracks.
That means that the wonder is increasing my military production by less than 1% per collection, and goes up about 0.1% per level.
Unless we get a new way to use sentient goods, I'm not excited about this wonder at all.
Basically, the question is "Would you build the Bulwark, shrewdy, FA, or toads if they only gave the troops?"
I have the room, and I've already built it, but I can't see myself putting any KP into it when I get more out of the other military wonders.
DeletedUser9601
Guest
I am interested in the Lighthouse to see if the minor boost to Sentient Goods means fewer MM spells once Ch 14 hits. But I'll be honest. I'm actually NOT interested in the Sentient Goods until about 2 weeks before Ch 14. I want to run out of T4/T5 because it will make my Trader Screen infinitely less frustrating (especially on mobile).
Is the Treant number based on Squad Size? That makes it even harder to justify.
One upside (again, once T6 comes out) is that it might be a source of T6 before you have your T6 factory up and running. Of course if that is limited until T4/T5 until you've actually researched your T6 boost, that undercuts a lot of the value... So much uncertainty!
Is the Treant number based on Squad Size? That makes it even harder to justify.
One upside (again, once T6 comes out) is that it might be a source of T6 before you have your T6 factory up and running. Of course if that is limited until T4/T5 until you've actually researched your T6 boost, that undercuts a lot of the value... So much uncertainty!
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Yes, it is, so I suppose it's a better wonder if you made the unfortunate mistake of researching all optional SS techs.
There is a significant flaw in the sentient goods system all around:
If you are endgame, then you can hit your max storage while waiting for a new chapter.
If you have a fellow in the end game they can 4:1 with you since they T4,5 have no value to them.
Basically, it's like being able to trade mana or seeds-- how easy would chapter 9-11 have been then?
DeletedUser9601
Guest
My FS is too generous (or T5 isn't THAT big of a roadblock if you use MM). I've been pushing for weeks to give people 100:1 trades (you just swap 4:1 back a few dozen times). But no one takes me up on it. So I've just tucked my sentient factories in the corner off roads, and I'll re-attach them in January, or whenever the next race shows up.
Deleted User - 841850
Guest
Wow I think I hit the gold mine with this question. I've got a better idea of what to plan for...as soon as I get some room. Arggh, If you look at my city right now it looks like "Crazy Town USA", I've got some parts that are okay , a section I like to call "Odd Lot" and a section that if it was real life would probably be the bad side of town as it is just chock full of level one workshops and level one manufactories....don't get me started about the pollution level, the high maintenance residents are starting to complain about it all!
The idea was to plan out how much space I need to accommodate the buildings required to navigate this chapter and then leave all of those workshops etc as useful little placeholders . While the plan seems sound, I'd so like to add in my EE and MM Aw's that are just gathering dust, I even have a Vallorian Vallor that would be great to have. However I don't want to build myself into an almost game ending corner like I did a few chapters ago
I'm actually 3 provinces away from an expansion,which I was going to use for another willow (I've got 8) but maybe I should reconsider and put it towards an AW or the valor, any thoughts?
Thanks
The idea was to plan out how much space I need to accommodate the buildings required to navigate this chapter and then leave all of those workshops etc as useful little placeholders . While the plan seems sound, I'd so like to add in my EE and MM Aw's that are just gathering dust, I even have a Vallorian Vallor that would be great to have. However I don't want to build myself into an almost game ending corner like I did a few chapters ago
I'm actually 3 provinces away from an expansion,which I was going to use for another willow (I've got 8) but maybe I should reconsider and put it towards an AW or the valor, any thoughts?
Thanks
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
@momestar heading into orcs makes for a tough choice. There is almost no limit on how many orc buildings you can place- the more the better(if speed is a goal) For some this means dropping to 100% culture and spamming out as many level 1 farms as possible.
One choice is simple: the EE because it saves you space. Nuke a WS, place the EE and you can move on to harder choices.
The MM is an awesome wonder, and really only takes up the space of 5 orc farms which shouldn't slow you down too much (20 orc farms is the suggested minimum) Based on your 57 level 1 workshops you should be in good shape to have well over 40 farms even with the MM.
The key to orcs is quantity, not quality. Upgrading farms costs a lot of orc stuff that farms make, so getting a return on those upgrade costs takes a long time.
A very good way to do the chapter is to start with as many as 60 level 1 farms and keep at least half of them at level 1 so that you can later replace them with orc rally points. This works because the first half of the chapter needs mostly farms stuff and that flips about halfway.
Also if your timing is good(lucky) then you can use that transition phase to build a little turd town for an event (winter maybe?)
One choice is simple: the EE because it saves you space. Nuke a WS, place the EE and you can move on to harder choices.
The MM is an awesome wonder, and really only takes up the space of 5 orc farms which shouldn't slow you down too much (20 orc farms is the suggested minimum) Based on your 57 level 1 workshops you should be in good shape to have well over 40 farms even with the MM.
The key to orcs is quantity, not quality. Upgrading farms costs a lot of orc stuff that farms make, so getting a return on those upgrade costs takes a long time.
A very good way to do the chapter is to start with as many as 60 level 1 farms and keep at least half of them at level 1 so that you can later replace them with orc rally points. This works because the first half of the chapter needs mostly farms stuff and that flips about halfway.
Also if your timing is good(lucky) then you can use that transition phase to build a little turd town for an event (winter maybe?)
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Deleted User - 841850
Guest
I'm actually in Woodelves now, your advice and help with restructuring my city is what helped me survive Orcs (Thanks!) and is also the reason that I have space to put out those level ones (another thank you).
Those level ones are placemarking for the forest glade with level 4 size in mind, 6 forest fabrications, 6 marble and 6 steel grafting sites, and 4 plank grafting sites..Can you give me similar advice, but from a Woodelves point of view?
Thanks.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
@momestar
http://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/5bbcfc7bc582446d956b5ac2f18b0d76/
Replaced 1 Workshop with the Endless Excavation, because it makes more supplies and needs zero pop.
Loads of space in the south end so you can keep whatever nostalgic event stuff that you wish.
Please try to square up your city going forwards, those little expansions sticking out from the town are really hard to work with
http://www.elvenarchitect.com/city/planner/5bbcfc7bc582446d956b5ac2f18b0d76/
Replaced 1 Workshop with the Endless Excavation, because it makes more supplies and needs zero pop.
Loads of space in the south end so you can keep whatever nostalgic event stuff that you wish.
Please try to square up your city going forwards, those little expansions sticking out from the town are really hard to work with
Mykan
Oh Wise One
Actually it is not necessarily. If you built it for coins, then yes it is always great. If you built it for population then it is utter rubbish early on, I have a town in dwarves (end of that chapter) and the abyss is still less efficient population wise then a house (including support costs). Depending on town design the abyss should come good around chapter 5 thru 7. Once the abyss matches a house in population per square it only continues to shine more and more.
In chapter 2 players should place the ToS asap and just wait on the abyss. Check the abyss each chapter or after major upgrades to see if it is ready to be useful.
For me, yes I would. The troop production saves me a bunch of supplies and stockpiles the troops between tournaments. Heavy melee is used for 2/9 tournaments and some minor support occasions. The free troops either give me a head start for those tournaments or let me focus on some speciality troops, not to mention saving me a lot of supplies. I am looking forward to getting this wonder to level 6 as soon as I can, granted I am also keen for the sentient goods bonus to be equivalent to orc production. I am keen to see how much goods I can stockpile with this wonder.
There has been some great information so far but one area that has been missed is some wonders have synergies with other wonders/buildings. The synergy effect might change the benefit of a wonder. For example the heroes forge and pyramid of purification. If your building the pyramid then the forge suddenly gets a boost in becoming a sentient goods producers, the pyramid also has synergies with other orc producing buildings like armouries or event buildings giving free orcs.
Another classic synergy is the crystal lighthouse/bell spire and the watchtower.
Regarding comments about the MM and non combat players. If your a non combat players I would look at the watchtower as a must have. The culture bonus on MM and watchtower is the same and while people build the MM for combat its culture effect can be significant. One of these wonders for its culture bonus is very useful and can save you space by reducing culture buildings in your town. I have both watchtower and MM, from memory I get around 50% of my total culture needs from these 2 buildings alone. That sort of culture benefit allows you to look at different strategy options around culture and the culture combo buildings.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
As soon as crafting comes to live I might replace the pyramid with a couple of Vallors. 20% less space needed, +6.6K culture, and double the troops (640 per day with easy collect vs 91/3h) Even someone collecting 4x per day will need to level up to 5 and spent 1,000 KP to do so in order to beat a couple of vallors.
Edit: truthfully, until a new guest race comes I'll keep the pyramid since I have 20 empty expansions.
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Mykan
Oh Wise One
Picking up on the comment about KP and levels, and not directed specifically at Soggy.
The levelling of wonders is another important aspect when comparing them. Comparing a level 1 wonder is good for a casual tournament player and worst case scenario. For a person who aims to do a lot of tournaments then a level 6 wonder really is very cheap. Looking at the KP contributions from one of my fellowships the active tournament/wonder people are contributing between 400-600 KP a week to wonders, so 2-3 weeks to get any wonder to level 6. Plus plenty of runes and broken shards to get past the rune stage. If a person is/wishes to be active in tournaments then a comparison of wonders at level 6 is reasonable (in my opinion).
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
Fair enough, let's say you don't have the heroes forge or pyramid. Pretty simple:
Pyramid gives you 85, 113, or 140 stacks depending on activity level (and most optional SS techs skipped)
Heroes gives +12% damage to heavy melee.
For me, 85 squads is about 3.5% of my 9-week production
I use heavy melee about 22% of the time. 22% *12 = 2.6% overall boost with the heroes.
so 3.5% more troops vs 2.6% stronger troops.
That's actually pretty close since IMO stronger troops are better than more troops
Perhaps a better option:
For the same KP I could take my needles from 11 to 13, increasing my production of troops by 3.5%, and increasing archer damage, and saving the 26 squares that the pyramid needs.
Granted, pyramid troops are free, and barracks troops cost supplies, but I give supplies a very low value since they are so plentiful.
I think I would need level 16+ needles before putting KP into the pyramid made more sense.
DeletedUser9601
Guest
Off-topic, but how much do people value overall AW levels? I was in Amuni without ever having been at the "end-game," so I always felt that my total AW level was low for whatever chapter I was in (Halfling, Elemental, Amuni) and that Seeds were sometimes a challenge. Now that I'm at end-game, I find myself levelling AWs I once considered "eh" (like Tome of Secrets) if only because I can spend say 600 KP (wild guess) on 6 AW levels, or 500 KP on another level of my GA. And I'd much rather increase my total AW levels by 6 than increase any one particular AW by 1 level.
There's definitely going to be diminishing returns here, but given that Amuni was secretly pretty "seed-intensive," and I expect Ch 14 to be even moreso (assuming seed costs of T4, T5 and T6 production), I want to keep productivity solid.
There's definitely going to be diminishing returns here, but given that Amuni was secretly pretty "seed-intensive," and I expect Ch 14 to be even moreso (assuming seed costs of T4, T5 and T6 production), I want to keep productivity solid.
SoggyShorts
Mathematician par Excellence
For me, not all all anymore. a couple of event buildings that give seeds and done, the Amuni chapter didn't ask for much at all imo.
@73 AW levels my Beta city is cruising through with my seeds never dropping under 70K in Amuni
Level 6 ETC, and no seed-giving event buildings
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Mykan
Oh Wise One
I think the total number of AW levels you have (for seed production) plays into it. If you have say 60 AWlevels in amuni with minimal event options I would think AW levels overall is pretty important. For me I have a lot of AW levels so 1 more is less of an issue. I consider more what area my town might be missing and focus on the wonders that help that. For example I love my GA and would like to level it up to 16 (from 12ish) but I currently don't need the gold or pop, so it is just sitting there. Similarly my prosperity tower is only level 3 as I currently am not in need of supplies.Any wonder just below a rune level also tends to demand some attention as the rune level is basically a free level.