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    Your Elvenar Team

Ancient wonders

DeletedUser23076

Guest
Hey all,
I’m about to enter chapter 4 and I have four ancient wonders available (or nearly available) to put down. Now that the Phoenix event is just about over, I should be able to clear out some space with workshops I built just for the event. I’m having a hard time deciding which to put down first:
Tome of secrets
Golden Abyss
Needles of the Tempest
About to complete ruins for Endless Excavation


Thoughts? I’m doing well in tournaments but my Phoenix is the aureate so I’m thinking Needles might be a good one to give a good boost on training speeds, since last tournament I kept running out of troops and goods before I could complete all provinces each day.

Orr should I just wait and see what the next event is since I may need to space for something else, like more tier one manufacturers? (I hear rumors it’s either a FS adventure or a Manufacturers Challenge. Not sure what an MC is, but I’d like to be prepared)

Thanks!
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
I'd go for the ToS and EE to start, hold off on the other 2 for now.

"No brainers"
  • EE, PT, ToS. Each of them are better than workshops at level 1(with extremely rare exceptions like making bread 24/7, only collecting from PT once a day, and 72H+ scout times)
  • Shrewdly shrooms- this building is an absolute must have if you want to use military. Even at level 1 it's better than a third armory, and it takes up zero pop.
  • Dwarven bulwark-generally KP invested in the shrewdly is better than the dwarven bulwark, but you might unlock the bulwark months earlier which makes this a great wonder until then, and if you level it, it's not worth deleting.
  • Needles-again, only military, but most troops come from barracks, and once you reach a point where your barracks level is always at max, then the only way to get more troops is this wonder(or crafting)
  • Monastery/sanctuary after the shrewdly this is hands down the best military wonder. The only way to gain an advantage over the enemy in tournaments is to have buffed troops, and this is the only wonder that buffs all of them.
  • Mountain halls- any build that has at least 6 factories is better off building a MThall than building a 7th factory. The more factories the better it is, and that's not even counting the pop it gives you.
  • Golden abyss-as mentioned above, once this gives better pop per square than a house (around chapter 5/6) it's an obvious win.
Special mention
  • Dragon abbey-a really cool wonder where you can get instant mana by spamming spells. The problem is that crafting might get better and better and the CC spell doesn't give mana. Also, you need to run your magic academy pretty much 24/7 to build up enough spells to make it useful meaning a greater commitment to the tournament for needed relics. Finally, you can't really use this as your only mana source and use spells often( like constant PoP or MM)
  • All other military wonders. If you get heavy into the tournaments, then you'll want to start adding in either the wonders that shore up your weak spots (human heavy ranged+toads) or doubles down on your strengths (dogs+victory springs) as space allows.
  • Elvenar trade center- good for getting needed seeds in elementals, but much less needed in Amuni...but the boost to MM is quite powerful, so I'd say it's playstyle dependent.
The absolute worst wonders are imo:
  • Maze/Enars-every event offers a building that is far far better per square at mana production.
  • Thrones- not terrible for culture, but every KP invested would better be spent elsewhere.
  • Blooming trader- if you win 1 trading post per event you are better off than having a level 11 BTG. And you save 17 squares. No, the wholesale reduction isn't great, go buy KP instead;)
  • Pyramid-craft a vallorian vallor or 2 instead, his needs to be level 9 or 13 to be better per square.
  • LoGN- very niche wonder with a fatal flaw: you need buffs on mana buildings which generally arent your best culture buildings. If someone has a strategy where this wonder makes sense, I'd love to hear it.
  • Sunset towers- this wonder comes far too late to be of any use. The need for seeds drops dramatically in Amuni, so if there isn't a massive increase in seed requirements for chapter 14 it's a rather pointless wonder.

Then come the other culture wonders. If you like the super efficient culture&pop hybrids from events and get about 30-40%+ of your pop from them, then you will have no need for pure culture buildings in your city meaning the watch tower and lighthouse combo has no value as you won't need any culture buffs to hit 150% bonus- this is an especially effective strategy for players in more casual FS where they can't count on a lot of visits as they will see a better return after about 20-30% pop from hybrids.
If, for some reason, you don't do events, or choose other event buildings than the hybrids, then YMMV.
A quick note about the "build them all" strategy: it's true that every wonder is better than not having it(ignoring space efficiency), but if you build them all then you will largely have luck dictate which ones you can level up.
Without some skipped wonders like the lighthouse or thrones that you can use to smash runes and fill wanted wonders, you need a combination of luck, patience or diamonds to get the runes you need.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
Orr should I just wait and see what the next event is since I may need to space for something else...
Unless you spend a bunch of money to buy diamonds to spend on extra expansions, you will never have enough space for everything in this game, especially once you get to chapter 6. There will always be something you do not have room for or will have to get rid of old stuff to fit in new stuff. That is just part of the strategy the devs put into playing the game.
 

DeletedUser23076

Guest
Unless you spend a bunch of money to buy diamonds to spend on extra expansions, you will never have enough space for everything in this game, especially once you get to chapter 6. There will always be something you do not have room for or will have to get rid of old stuff to fit in new stuff. That is just part of the strategy the devs put into playing the game.
Yeah, that’s why I’m trying to determine which one I should put up
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
Yeah, that’s why I’m trying to determine which one I should put up
Well, the good thing about the wonders is they never change in size as you level them up, so once you put them out, you never have to make more space for them. And most (all?) wonders get better as you get better and further along in the game, even if you do not level them up right away Also, eventually wonders like the abyss and excavation will become much better than either the residence or workshop you could have in the same space. The rewards for scouting or completing provinces that the tome and excavation give can be very useful at your early stage of the game, but late game not so much.
 

SoggyShorts

Well-Known Member
Basically, every playstyle/strategy in the game requires at least some supplies.
The Tome and Endless are each better at making supplies than a workshop is(because they don't need population or culture) so they are considered "must have" wonders since they save space.

The Golden Abyss grants coins and population just like a residence, but does not give more pop thana residence until late chapter 5 to mid chapter 6 depending on playstyle. Best to wait until then.

The Needles is an excellent wonder but for many early cities the bonus of increased training speed just means that your barracks sits idle while you are sleeping/working. For most players it is advisable to hold off on this one until you unlock the dwarven bulwark or shrewdy shrooms to help balance out your training times.
 

DeletedUser23076

Guest
Basically, every playstyle/strategy in the game requires at least some supplies.
The Tome and Endless are each better at making supplies than a workshop is(because they don't need population or culture) so they are considered "must have" wonders since they save space.

The Golden Abyss grants coins and population just like a residence, but does not give more pop thana residence until late chapter 5 to mid chapter 6 depending on playstyle. Best to wait until then.

The Needles is an excellent wonder but for many early cities the bonus of increased training speed just means that your barracks sits idle while you are sleeping/working. For most players it is advisable to hold off on this one until you unlock the dwarven bulwark or shrewdy shrooms to help balance out your training times.
Thank you! Great information!
 

Deborah M

Well-Known Member
Golden Abyss has probably always been my favorite. If you upgrade it regularly as you grow the pop is a huge help in a 4x4 space. Mine is level 29 and gives 52,203 pop compared to a 3x5 level 33 regular residence giving 3,900 pop. In my opinion it is better to not put off starting it early on so you can keep up with upgrades. I built a lot of my AW later into the game and lived to regret it when I had to play catch up on leveling them up to really see the benefits.
 

DeletedUser20951

Guest
Golden Abyss has probably always been my favorite. If you upgrade it regularly as you grow the pop is a huge help in a 4x4 space. Mine is level 29 and gives 52,203 pop compared to a 3x5 level 33 regular residence giving 3,900 pop. In my opinion it is better to not put off starting it early on so you can keep up with upgrades. I built a lot of my AW later into the game and lived to regret it when I had to play catch up on leveling them up to really see the benefits.
I've never fully understood all the warnings against placing the little Abyss immediately after unlocking, which I did, but I do prefer to allocate space ahead of time for whatever I know I want to have. Definitely agree that it seems more prudent, regardless of the fact that it isn't as good as a regular residence for a bit, to construct and work on upgrades as soon as possible.
 

DeletedUser1016

Guest
I agree - the GA is the best in my opinion as well, it's tiny and quickly upgrades since KP is "relatively" small per level [compared to others], hence levels faster then others. Population becomes a problem once you start growing, especially when adding manufactories and leveling them up. I'm not a fan of any that need "scouting" or "clearing a province" because once that process slows down or is at a stand still, a portion go the AW's benefit becomes obsolete.
 

DeletedUser20951

Guest
I'm not a fan of any that need "scouting" or "clearing a province"
Neither am I, which is why I never built the Tome of LIES, although it's small, too, and provides KP, but I don't feel the amount gained is worth sinking KP into its upgrades. I like staying fairly close to each chapter's province requirement, as well, and would rather not have a Wonder that somewhat pressures you to scout more. Now, the Excavation's twenty-four hour production of supplies is right up my alley, and the extra relics from when I do clear provinces is a nice tiny gravy I don't really notice.

Ah, forgot to mention that the Tome has also been great for gathering broken shards to complete the Rune Circle for other Wonders. Used it for that a couple months ago, and I did have to wait for the construction to finish, where its cheap goods cost and quick building time comes in handy.
 
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MirandaZink

Active Member
As you progress you will never have enough room to build every AW so you need to decide what type of player you are - goods/supplies versus combat. Personally I fight for territory and in the tournaments. So my focus has been anything that gives me troops or improves their health or speed to develop. There isn't a perfect/right answer but eventually you will need to decide what you can live without unless you want to fork out a lot of $$$ for expansions.
 

NightshadeCS

Well-Known Member
As you progress you will never have enough room to build every AW so you need to decide what type of player you are
Well....this is definitely not the most efficient way to go, but I have every wonder built and am in Elementals. After reading a lot of good AW threads on here lately, I would like to pare down and only have the AWs that truly benefit me, but they are all at level 6 or higher, so it is a tough choice. I definitely don't have as much room for guest race buildings, so I move rather slowly, but I am in no rush to reach the end of the available chapters. I take my time, participate in all the events, and rock the tournies. So, all AWs may not be smart, but not impossible. :oops::oops::D:D
 

Deborah M

Well-Known Member
As you progress you will never have enough room to build every AW so you need to decide what type of player you are - goods/supplies versus combat. Personally I fight for territory and in the tournaments. So my focus has been anything that gives me troops or improves their health or speed to develop. There isn't a perfect/right answer but eventually you will need to decide what you can live without unless you want to fork out a lot of $$$ for expansions.
Really? I have finished Constructs and have every AW :p I do have every expansion also which obviously helps.
 

DeletedUser2207

Guest
My city on Elcysandir has all the AWs, except for the two from Constructs because I haven't finished the chapter yet. I'm not overscouted, and all diamond purchases came from free diamonds except for builder #3 and magic academy level 5. Space is a bit tight, but I've got the full constructs settlement in, have some free space for events, and can cater/negotiate as needed. Several of those AWs are "inefficient", except they are efficiently helping me reach my goal of having 100% of the AWs ;)

Regarding the abyss wait or not debate - GA is one of my favorite AWs but it's temporarily not the most useful when it first becomes available. Waiting until it compares better to residences is the strategy I would personally go with but there's also a lot of merit in just building it right away and having it available to put kp into as you get tech locked / receive KP instants
 

DeletedUser9601

Guest
You can have every AW if you want by the end of the game, but not every AW is going to support a player’s play style.

There are half a dozen AWs that are useless if you don’t fight.
There are a bunch of AWs that grant you resources you might not need (like seeds or orcs).
Some AWs support spells you might never use.

Just do some research on each AW and figure out how you like to play. It should be pretty obvious which 4 or 5 AWs you should level up at a given point.
 

Deborah M

Well-Known Member
Don’t forget that to get such a strong AW, she’s spent more than 10k+ KPs to level the GA that far.
Very true! To keep up with upgrades you need to be in a FS that has a strong KP trade system, consistently do map visits to get KP from maxing your coin multiple times daily, if you are not in game a lot use Inspiring Meditation spells so you don't lose KP from being maxed, at least do 2 rounds in a bunch of tournament provinces 10 and greater on a regular basis and belong to a 10 chest every week FS. Obviously KP has been one of my main focuses for a long time :rolleyes: