Any obsessives out there track FA badges?

[Gkyr]

In order to lay out a proper FA slum, it would be nice to know how frequently the 3 manufactory badges were called for versus the 4 WS badges.
I have seen players tracking all manner of metrics on this forum; I wonder if anyone has been tracking badges?

I know, I know: "past performance is not a predictor of future results". Still...

 

[Nerwa]

Look in the "News from Beta" thread, around p. 76. Charts & links to spreadsheets. Because - oh, yes - FA is an obsession with some fellowships!

ETA: You say "slums"; I say "street fair".

 

[Gkyr]

Thank you, @Nerwa that was a good start. And I need even more information. Have any super-obsessives tracked the frequencies of badges demanded by The Pit? That is where the top fellowships get ranked.

 

[crackie]

Have any super-obsessives tracked the frequencies of badges demanded by The Pit? That is where the top fellowships get ranked.

Not during, because it’s impossible as some rounds fly by faster than you can refresh, but after FA ends, you can do some math to figure out how many rounds of Pit you’ve completed.

 

[Iyapo1]

@Gkyr The pit cycles through a pattern. iirc the pattern is:

One cycle(5 badges each)

Farmers, brews, druids
Ghosts, marbles, statues
Residue, carps, guards
Hats, necklaces
Braclets, wonder, coins
Tiaras, smiths.
Then the cycle repeats.

 

[samidodamage]

@Iyapo1
Jack's notes show the windows have changed for the upcoming FA. I put his info into my spreadsheet, so here's a copy/paste of that:

1	Farmers	Brewers	Druids
2	Ghosts	Marbles	Statues
3	Residues	Carpenters	Guards
4	Hats	Necklaces
5	Bracelets	Wonders	Coins
6	Tiara	Smith

Still 5 of each badge, still all 16 badges, still cycle through and repeat; they just scrambled the badges in the windows.
Each window still gives 50pts when complete.

 

[crackie]

Thank you, @Nerwa that was a good start. And I need even more information. Have any super-obsessives tracked the frequencies of badges demanded by The Pit? That is where the top fellowships get ranked.

Btw, on paper, this looks like a good approach, but in practice, it is less effective. You are correct that FAs are won in The Pit. However The Pit is more about online availability of players to flip the badges. Therefore, if you're micromanaging to the level of assigning badges to get enough made to meet a certain score threshold, then you might find yourself actually stuck due to over-planning. For example, Player X has a giant city that he committed to make a gazillion badges (HOORAY!), but a crazy storm swung through and now he's lost power for the week and the cell towers are all down (OH NOES!). It doesn't matter that he's committed to 200 badges because he can't drop any of them off as his availability is zero. If you're relying on Player X for 30 statues, then you're now down for 6+ cycles that you can't flip. In The Pit, the people who are around need to be generalists, have a cache of everything. The people who might have 9-5 schedules or only check in 2x a day, should do the long term badges (statues, necklaces, blacksmiths, farmers), because everyone will likely be stuck on those anyway.

I've been FA mage to 3 different FS and advised 2 other FS to Top 5 finishes. Have won several as well. The better your FS is at FAs, the less planning is involved until there is no planning needed. In my current FS where we can waltz to #1, we will finish all 3 maps in just about 1st day and spend the rest of the FA in The Pit. We don't even plan or track who's making what. The directive is as simple as "Make some of everything". We're retiring from competitive FAs though, but I so much rather be the FA mage than the Recruiting Mage so I kinda miss my old job

 

[ajqtrz]

We use a spreadsheet I've developed to predict our score. This means we need to predict what we need to get through the stages and the path we will take through those stages. We do that and can actually track who gave what as we record it. Once we get to the pit, then, we know the score achieved by the stages. And, once we finish we can divide to see how many badges of each type we needed. This tells us exactly how many badges we produced. In addition, since we track the players WS's and T1s we know what we are getting per square and can plan space accordingly. It's helped us to get to the top 10 each time we decide we want to go "all out" in the pit.

Now timing is critical when in the pit so we have tried to have "Pit Parties," where, at a certain time, as many show up as possible. Usually we schedule them for "before and after work" on the East Coast, and the same using Pacific Standard Time. Mountain and Central (and anybody else, for that matter) can attend the ones they want and we don't restrict people from putting things in in the middle hours. In any case, It usually helps, though it's not perfect. Unfortunately, some of of our players have other cities also doing the FA and they pop in and out...but mostly out....just when you need them. LOL.

We did try at the very beginning to assign how many this or that player made, but often they either failed to make them, or, more often, just didn't get here when needed. So now it's free floating, though we do use countdown threads on five of the badges so we don't waste too much time making what we don't need.

AJ

 

[satchmo33]

I actually LIKE FAs. I'm weird. Reading all of the info from your FA-top FSs, now I'm inquisitive. Trying to rally 'round my FS to perform more as a unit, but is like trying to herd cats.

I assume that you top guys finish all 3 paths in all 3 stages and hit the pit with storm troopers. I have to cajole/plead/force/get angry..... to get my FS (well, not MINE...the FS that I'm in) to even do all three paths just in stage 1. They rebel at doing more than one path in stage 2....so we hit stage 3 with about 4 days to go. And, because stage 3 is such a beast we just concentrate on one path...and still hit the 'pits' 'way too early.

Which turns me into a little over-stimulated four-year-old, all sweaty and purple in the face and foaming at the mouth.

Advice? (thanks)

 

[crackie]

to get my FS (well, not MINE...the FS that I'm in) to even do all three paths just in stage 1.

Even if we're "taking it easy", I have my group do the whole Stage 1. There's not that many more badges doing the other 2 paths. I'd rather give them more checkpoints to do so they have more options when they check in than be limited to only 2 badge options for one path, prob not having any of those badges when they do log in to the game and having to come back later. I find doing the whole Stage 1 less stressful. No need to herd cats and I hate waiting around for stragglers!

I assume that you top guys finish all 3 paths in all 3 stages and hit the pit with storm troopers.

No, you wouldn't do all 3 paths on stage 3. For example, the last checkpoint for blue is not worth all the blacksmiths for 300pts (unless you're choosing to do Blue path). Which checkpoints you should do is debatable and will depend on the strengths and weaknesses of the FS. My US city is in a 19-chest/Gold Spire FS full of tourney addicts. It has no problems getting Ghost badges. My EN group is less than a year old with far smaller cites and doing only 13 chests. We don't have an endless supply of Ghost badges to blow. Since FAs are won in the Pit, we elected to save some for the Pit and skipped more checkpoints.

They rebel at doing more than one path in stage 2....

I've led FAs with several different groups now. I've played with people that are new to the game and never done FAs before, diehard FA junkies, people that "never done FAs as a group event before", people who are indifferent, and people who loathe FAs. The last 2 groups always diminish in number, converting to the other camps after their first FA with me. The first part of it, I would say, is surprising themselves and seeing the group land in the Top 10 or better. That gives them the confidence that they can compete with the big boys and girls and to trust my ability to manage FAs. The other part of it is Elvenar is a sloooooooow moving game. If you're competing in the Top 5, the whole dynamic and pace of the game changes. It becomes a shootout with a massive adrenaline rush. With everyone chipping in and working as a team, the positive energy and vibes are contagious. The holdouts with less favorable attitudes at the start will melt and buy in. Then in the subsequent FAs, we will improve to hit Top 5 with more players eager to participate and do better, then Top 3, and/or eventually winning it all even.

 

[ajqtrz]

I actually LIKE FAs. I'm weird. Reading all of the info from your FA-top FSs, now I'm inquisitive. Trying to rally 'round my FS to perform more as a unit, but is like trying to herd cats.

I assume that you top guys finish all 3 paths in all 3 stages and hit the pit with storm troopers. I have to cajole/plead/force/get angry..... to get my FS (well, not MINE...the FS that I'm in) to even do all three paths just in stage 1. They rebel at doing more than one path in stage 2....so we hit stage 3 with about 4 days to go. And, because stage 3 is such a beast we just concentrate on one path...and still hit the 'pits' 'way too early.

Which turns me into a little over-stimulated four-year-old, all sweaty and purple in the face and foaming at the mouth.

Advice? (thanks)

1) Trade cats in for dogs. A dog is loyal because it's a dog. A cat is "who cares" because it's a cat. Some of your players will just sit back and ignore your pleadings and some will rise and serve their fellowship. Know which is which and slowly move the cats out. It's not "kicking" them, it's "we've changed and it's not a good match." If you start setting known goals -- like a top 10 finish in the FA, and get the "dogs" to come along, the cats will usually leave on their own as the pressure to keep up grows. Make their move friendly by even finding them fellowships that better suit their needs, even.

2) Go slow and steady. Getting to any worthy goal can be pushed, pushed, pushed, and in the process push even the most loyal dog out the door. Set intermediate goals and give it time. Constant reminders of the goals and what specific things your fs needs to do to get to those goals helps. Our FA previews start about 4 weeks before we are going to do an FA (we only do one or two at "full speed" each year) with specific suggestions of how many CC's to save up, how many instants will be needed, encouragement to delay starting a new chapter and/or finish the one they are in by a certain date, and so on. The more specific, I've found, the more likely they will do it. "Save some CC's" isn't the same as "You'll need at least 200 CC's for the FA, so start saving them now")

3) We do all stage 1 and 2 and a single path through stage 3. Remember, you don't have to finish one color of path, but can move via waypoints 2 and 5 from one color to the other. We did this and saved a lot of effort in the last FA (Finished 7th).

4) Plan ahead and let them know the plan. I have a spreadsheet that let's me try different paths and tells me exactly what path through State 3 is the best (actually it does the same for stage 1 and 2 but we do all of those so we don't really care about that). I let them know how many of each badge we will need to reach our goal (top ten) and then ask them to tell me their plans -- usualy about a week ahead. Based upon that I adjust our goals. Usually I find they exceed what I estimate so that's always a positive. (Which means you need to be conservative in your goal setting as it's always better for the team to exceed a goal than to fall short).

Now there is another approach. You can simply insist all the cats be dogs and if they aren't, kick them. I know a Starfleet officer who seems to do that. She does have a lot of turnover at the beginning from what I can tell, but in the end gets to a certain level faster. But once she reaches that level things level off. My belief is that the underlying method is not healthy as it undermines the trust and puts a lot more unnecessary pressure on the team. But it is effective in getting groups to a certain, high, level. My personality doesn't lend itself to that method.

Hope this helps.

AJ

 

[Iyapo1]

1) Trade cats in for dogs. A dog is loyal because it's a dog. A cat is "who cares" because it's a cat. Some of your players will just sit back and ignore your pleadings and some will rise and serve their fellowship. Know which is which and slowly move the cats out. It's not "kicking" them, it's "we've changed and it's not a good match." If you start setting known goals -- like a top 10 finish in the FA, and get the "dogs" to come along, the cats will usually leave on their own as the pressure to keep up grows. Make their move friendly by even finding them fellowships that better suit their needs, even.

2) Go slow and steady. Getting to any worthy goal can be pushed, pushed, pushed, and in the process push even the most loyal dog out the door. Set intermediate goals and give it time. Constant reminders of the goals and what specific things your fs needs to do to get to those goals helps. Our FA previews start about 4 weeks before we are going to do an FA (we only do one or two at "full speed" each year) with specific suggestions of how many CC's to save up, how many instants will be needed, encouragement to delay starting a new chapter and/or finish the one they are in by a certain date, and so on. The more specific, I've found, the more likely they will do it. "Save some CC's" isn't the same as "You'll need at least 200 CC's for the FA, so start saving them now")

3) We do all stage 1 and 2 and a single path through stage 3. Remember, you don't have to finish one color of path, but can move via waypoints 2 and 5 from one color to the other. We did this and saved a lot of effort in the last FA (Finished 7th).

4) Plan ahead and let them know the plan. I have a spreadsheet that let's me try different paths and tells me exactly what path through State 3 is the best (actually it does the same for stage 1 and 2 but we do all of those so we don't really care about that). I let them know how many of each badge we will need to reach our goal (top ten) and then ask them to tell me their plans -- usualy about a week ahead. Based upon that I adjust our goals. Usually I find they exceed what I estimate so that's always a positive. (Which means you need to be conservative in your goal setting as it's always better for the team to exceed a goal than to fall short).

Now there is another approach. You can simply insist all the cats be dogs and if they aren't, kick them. I know a Starfleet officer who seems to do that. She does have a lot of turnover at the beginning from what I can tell, but in the end gets to a certain level faster. But once she reaches that level things level off. My belief is that the underlying method is not healthy as it undermines the trust and puts a lot more unnecessary pressure on the team. But it is effective in getting groups to a certain, high, level. My personality doesn't lend itself to that method.

Hope this helps.

AJ

Sorry, I just had to quote it before you had a chance to edit. This is hilarious and wildly offensive.

 

[Swordkin]

This works if youre the AM @ajqtrz but @satchmo33 said it wasnt his fellowship, just the one he was in. So i would like to offer e simpler approach.

Monitor the fellowships that meet your goals, all the canine ones as @ajqtrz would put it. When an opening arises, make a friendly message to the archmage, tell them what your ambition is and bark a little so they recognise you as a dog. But be humble, they allready have an Alpha!

 

[Alram]

@satchmo33
My advice would be to join a FS of like minded players before you hurt yourself. Those of us who actively dislike FAs are not going to be swayed by anything or anyone.

 

[Ibison]

Sorry, I just had to quote it before you had a chance to edit. This is hilarious and wildly offensive.

What in this post is "wildly offensive."

 

[Iyapo1]

That's a very good boy!

 

[crackie]

That's a very good boy!

That means they're domesticated and therefore, at worst, only tamely offensive.
Watch your words. There are people armed with OEDs around these parts. They are heavy enough to damage petals if dropped.

 

[satchmo33]

@ajqrtz!
1. THANK YOU for taking the time and effort to so completely offer assistance! You. Rock.

2. You write extraordinarily well. (and I, also, could not find anything remotely offensive...much less "wildly" so)

3. We are of completely like minds. Most of what you said was already in my mind - you helped 'put it together', and at the same time, provided MUCH needed laughter here.

 

[satchmo33]

If you'll look at my avatar, you'll see that I'm definitely NOT a "he". I Am Woman! Hear me roar!

 

[satchmo33]

@crackie:
Thank YOU, too, for your time/effort in writing your response. SUPER helpful.
And.....you're hilarious!! I bet if we ever got together we'd have lively debates and fall on the floor and roll around laughing at each other!