Arena - Optional Province Vs Province Combat

[DeletedUser12423]

Hello friends,
Topics similar to this have come up many times in the passed, so I already know some players aren't interested. I also know some people do not like change, even if it were good change. The Province Vs Province system would be entirely optional, and for minimal awards. More of a mini-game to pass time, rather then build your city.

Province Vs. Province Combat (The Basics)

1) Keeping it simple, each player sets up their squad with any units of their choice. Unlike battling in the world map, though, you do not get to see who or what you're fighting. This adds an element of surprise.
2) Players increase in Tiers as they win, and can only accept or challenge (match to) others within 1 tier of their current tier.
3) To enter Province Vs Province Combat, you have to pay a fee in Coins (Determined by your Tier) and the winner takes both fees.

Current Tier__Wins needed for next Tier___Coins Fee

1____________________1________________5,000
2____________________3_______________10,000
3____________________6_______________25,000
4___________________10_______________50,000

5___________________15______________100,000
6___________________21______________250,000
7___________________28______________500,000*

8___________________36______________500,000*
9___________________45______________500,000*
10__________________________________500,000*

* 500,000 Coins are as high as Province Vs Province Awards will go

That's it for the skeleton ^ ^

How is Province Vs Province Superior to Player Vs Player? <---Patent Pending....Just Kidding ^ ^

4) You do not have to be Online to participate. Simply set your squad up and pay/collect fees.
5) You will always match within 1 Tier of your current Tier, up to Tier 9. (t10 will always get t10)
6) You can't win more then three times per day. (So players can't feed to t10)
7) Buffs do not count, from such buildings like Magnificent Mage Multiplier. <--edited
8) Units lost in Province Vs Province Combat are destroyed and must be replaced.
9) Winners will most often match other winners. Losers most often will face other losers.
10) At t10, matches are simply by win %, not the number of wins gained. For balance.

I do expect negative feedback as Elvenar currently has little to no PvP.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I'm not sure about including buffs from temp buildings or wonders is a great idea-- Players without those buildings don't stand a chance against those that have them.

 

[DeletedUser12423]

Players without those buildings don't stand a chance

Oh, true. True. Good point ^ ^

 

[DeletedUser5800]

Initial thoughts: Elvenar PvP
It would run for a week like tournaments and ranks would be reset each week.
You would have to be online and opt in. (Enter the Arena!)
Manual battle only.
Each move would be timed (say 45 seconds) at the end of which you forfeit the move.
You would use tokens to enter battle and gain a token an hr. they would bank up to 10 like Kp
You wouldn't pay in (other than with your token) winner would just gain X
You would gain Arena points for each win in addition to gold.
Optimally it would not be server limited. (never happen but optimally)
You would be grouped by percent of Arena points. (i.e. Top 5%, 5-15%, 15-30%, 30-50%, something like that)
You would be matched within your percent bracket (or within one bracket)
It would try to match you one bracket over then equal then one below.
You would get an extra Arena point for beating a bracket over you making it easier to climb and harder to stay on top.
At the close there would be bracket rewards in addition to gold per battle. Relics, spells, top 5% a mana hut, whatever
Obviously there would be some pay off in rank points as well.

It would be awesome if it stayed pure but it would have to pay off for the dev's somehow so:
There would probably be a way to buy extra tokens with diamonds, I would hope they would be limited and expensive.
Possibly a week long token bank expansion premium spell that for x diamonds lets you hold 20 instead of 10.

Note: I used to play a game with a similar system and it was fun until mid arena the dev's added a bracket of top 0.5% and lifted the cap on buy ins. In a game where the prizes were unique, game changing and the arena was a month long and you were auto opted in every hr (which was insane)
Spending went through the roof, everyone lost a bracket and hundreds of paying players quit including me.
So whereas I like the concept I would add it has to be short, auto opt in are horrible, the rewards have to be worth it but not game altering and the rules have to stay in place through the entirety of each one. Otherwise I'll quit the day it starts.

There in lies the true problem with introducing PvP, many of us are here just because there isn't any and whereas there probably is a way it could exist and add to the game, there are more ways than I can count that it could go horribly wrong and make it an entirely different game.

 

[DeletedUser12423]

Optimally it would not be server limited.

This a great idea, by being cross-server there would never be a population problem, and there would be an abundance of possible matches.

there probably is a way it could exist and add to the game, there are more ways than I can count that it could go horribly wrong and make it an entirely different game.

Actually, my set up is more simple and less problematic. But thank you for your suggestion. Mine is also Province Vs Province, not manual player vs player which is a totally differant animal that can cause fighting. In Province Vs Province, you can even be offline. And there is no chat in battle. I'm not suggesting a fighting arena, at all. The squads are formed how you would fight on the worldmap, when you choose not to negotiate ^ ^ And yes, it's very possible to implement in Elvenar. Infact, almost all of the code has already been written, it only needs modifications.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@lronman
If I understand your idea correctly;
You select 5 squads and click "ready" Then at some point you are matched with another player and you auto-fight each other?

Sounds like a game of pure luck with no room for skill or strategy.
Like writing the word "Rock" or "Paper" or "Scissors" on a piece of paper and mailing it to each other.
I don't think this reaches your goal of being a mini-game to pass the time.

Perhaps if you want a combat related challenge, the arena could be something like:

• You get 20 level 2 squads of each type (240 barb, 240 xbow, 60 priests, 40 pally etc)
• Squad size is locked at 12
• Bonuses from buildings do not work.
• You have a selection of provinces in which to fight just like the world map.
• Unlike the tournament, you don't need to unlock provinces, instead they are all available in rings around you as if you had unlimited instant scouts
• Your score is determined by how many encounters you clear before running out of troops.
• Ranking points are awarded by rank.
• Other prizes are awarded for crossing certain point thresholds.
• Have it run for x days, possibly between tournaments, and allow you to try once every XX hours, which can be sped up with instants or diamonds.
• Only your highest score counts.

Pros
Level playing field regardless of player chapter or size.
Other than ranking points your prizes are determined by your skill.
Can give non-combat players a free chance to see what combat is like.
Unlike tournaments you can't gain a massive advantage by skipping techs.

Cons:
Obviously programming time.
I'm not sure how balanced Elves are vs Humans
In order to remove luck from the equation, troops that do from 2K-3K damage may need to be averaged out to always do 2.5K
Other stuff I'll probably think of right after I post this... or finish my coffee.

 

[DeletedUser12423]

I don't see any problem with a matching system that works offline, but you do not have to be offline. The province battle would still happen, without chat, and without the need of moderation. It would make more sense after the first week, when some players hit the 6th tier. It would be two weeks before the top players with 3 daily wins hit tier 10. The skill involves choice and order of units, and yes, luck is a factor ^ ^

As long as you have the coin, you could keep trying while your online, or take a break and remain in que until you get three wins. The arena idea is good, but different. If they did decide to go manual arena, I suggest no chat be allowed. I've seen too many people troll battle chats in other games. I don't think you should even see player names in Province Vs Province Combat, only UID numbers. So no moderation is involved or needed.

I'm not sure how balanced Elves are vs Humans

Damn. I'm not sure on that, either. That might be an idea-breaker >.> Good question, Sog ^ ^

Unlike the tournament, you don't need to unlock provinces, instead they are all available in rings around you as if you had unlimited instant scouts

That would work too. Attacking neighbors isn't a good idea, but that might also work lol The problem with that is, you clearly see the names xD

 

[SoggyShorts]

The skill involves choice and order of units, and yes, luck is a factor

The way combat is designed in Elvenar is a 5-way rock, paper, scissors, and unless you know the layout of the terrain, or the composition of enemy troops, luck is almost the only factor.
Manual fighting provides an edge in most cases since you can make the decision to hold back or even retreat, allowing you to strike first next round. This is something the AI doesn't do.
The advantage of hitting first is huge, and actually brings up a problem with PvP manual fights-> If you get down to one stack each, neither of you will be willing to move into range of the other, creating a stalemate.

BTW my idea doesn't have direct PvP, just a contest of who is better against the computer. Chat wouldn't even be an option.
--------------------------
I think the bottom line for me is that
PvP on autofight without seeing the enemy troop composition would be based on sheer luck.
PvP on manual would require a whole new game.

 

[DeletedUser5800]

The way combat is designed in Elvenar is a 5-way rock, paper, scissors

Dead rip off of Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock is what it is!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock–paper–scissors#Additional_weapons

Spoiler

 

[DeletedUser12423]

BTW my idea doesn't have direct PvP, just a contest of who is better against the computer. Chat wouldn't even be an option.

Ok, that's fair ^ ^
And some viable points there, I would especially like to see how Humans Vs Computer and Elves Vs Computer go. Because honestly, I run humans as my main and I made an elven city that is just hitting chapter 3 now. So far, the only differences I've noticed are minor. I think humans get a little more range, so that might be the tie-breaker? Really not sure, though.

Dead rip off of Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock is what it is!

Woah, you're right! That's exactly the same system o.o

 

[SoggyShorts]

I would especially like to see how Humans Vs Computer and Elves Vs Computer go.

I can tell you that when auto fighting in round 2 of the marble tournament the Priests are awesome, often winning with 95%+ troops remaining in most fights, and 1 stack dying in others. Elven sorcs often lost 2-3 stacks, and completely wiped quite a few times. The difference between 3 range and 5 is massive.

 

[DeletedUser12423]

That makes sense, and, maybe that's a reason Inno hasn't already designed an event or competition with Elves Vs Human? Maybe humans are slighly or even signifigantly superior?

 

[DeletedUser5800]

Maybe humans are slighly or even signifigantly superior?

My theory is that humans do have an edge in battle but elves have an edge in building. I always refer to elves as easy mode.

 

[SoggyShorts]

My theory is that humans do have an edge in battle but elves have an edge in building. I always refer to elves as easy mode.

Loads has changed since I looked into this, but but iirc it seemed like humans had better troops, but elves had better culture buildings. Unfortunately this balance isn't maintained anymore since you can get most of your culture from event buildings, which removes the elf advantage.

It wouldn't be that hard to separate things into 2 leader boards, and that would remove the problem(if there is one)

 

[DeletedUser12423]

My theory is that humans do have an edge in battle but elves have an edge in building. I always refer to elves as easy mode.

That makes sense, they have to balance it out somehow. That's probably how they do it ^ ^

most of your culture from event buildings, which removes the elf advantage.

Ah, true. Poor elves... lol

 

[DeletedUser5800]

Loads has changed since I looked into this, but but iirc it seemed like humans had better troops, but elves had better culture buildings. Unfortunately this balance isn't maintained anymore since you can get most of your culture from event buildings, which removes the elf advantage.

...and even then it all balances out at orcs with the orc strategist and the uniform buildings right? Elves is easy build mode until then, humans easy combat, but by the end of Chapter 8 it's all the same thing pretty much.

Edit: Wouldn't it be fun if you couldn't unlock PvP until Chapter 8.
The war like orcs bring a new feature to your city. Mwhahahaha

 

[DeletedUser12423]

Edit: Wouldn't it be fun if you couldn't unlock PvP until Chapter 9.

It is true, it would probably be more fair, but less of a point at end game. I have come to the conclusion that this was not as good as an idea as I first thought it would be. There are too many factors. But thank you, very much for your imput.

 

[SoggyShorts]

...and even then it all balances out at orcs with the orc strategist and the uniform buildings right?

While the orc strategist does help balance things a little, it doesn't help the mage slot deficiency that elves have. Other than culture buildings (which don't matter as much due to event frequency) I'm not sure what "easy build" mode you are referring to...although it has been a long time since I brought a human city up through the lower chapters.

 

[DeletedUser5800]

I'm not sure what "easy build" mode you are referring to...

For starters, elves 3x3 res. vs humans 4x3. But which race is easier is probably a whole dif. thread.

 

[DeletedUser9469]

The way combat is designed in Elvenar is a 5-way rock, paper, scissors, and unless you know the layout of the terrain, or the composition of enemy troops, luck is almost the only factor.

In the geek world we call that Rock Paper Scissor Lizard Spock