Armories: How Many is Too Many?

[Darielle]

I confess I've done a lot of catering in my time. I don't really know how to fight manually, and frankly, I don't want to learn. Autofight is my friend. But lately, I've been racking up the costs of catering spire and tourney and I don't think it will be sustainable forever. Mind you, I don't exclusively cater. I'm a half/half kind of person. I'm leaning towards fighting now.

Currently, I have 4 maxed armories. How many more should I make? Or is that enough to fight well without a ton of five-days? I'm half-way through Traders of Unur and I just reduced my sentient factories from 3 each to 2 each, so I have a feeling fighting is going to be my main option. I can add one more armory and max it without a problem. Will it really make a difference? Should I rearrange and add two armories? (My training grounds and merc camp are maxed.)

Any advice you can give to this "experienced newbie" if that makes any sense, I'd appreciate. I'll be back soon, and thanks!

 

[crackie]

There's no one size fits all. It's going to depend on a bunch of variables:
- How much Tourney/Spire are you doing?
- What level are your Bulwark/Shrewdy wonders?
- What level are your speed up wonders (Needles, Victory Springs, Flying Academy)?

I have 4 maxed out armories. I'm doing about +/-9k in tourney and full Spire in Constructs. Spire is 50/50 fight/catering. Tourney is full fighting. My speed up wonders are all above 25. My Shrewdy is at 22 and Bulwark is at 13. I went heavier on Shrewdy because I need an endless supply of Archers and I don't care for Sword Dancers. Shrewdy also lets me spam out temp 2x2 lvl 4 armories really quickly that I can sell off later, which I tend to do with cleared space after FA and need an instant army with a Brown Bear feed after pulling all my armories for a week. I need my barracks/merc camp/training grounds to run completely overnight with about 10hrs+ on a full queue of 5 slots. I don't have a Simia yet so recovery by Brown Bear means 10hrs+ queue makes it easier to use 5hr timers during a feed and they are the most easily acquired time instants. So pretty much any techs that lets me upgrade my 3 military buildings, I offset with Shrewdy to lengthen the queue back out again. Mainly, your queue time should be long enough to cover your overnight or you're losing out on several hours of troop production. Some people are not doing much tourney or Spire though. They might not care to need such a long queue, but if you're asking, then you're running low on troops so you'd benefit from a full overnight queue

 

[Huor]

You're way upstairs from me (just getting ready to start chapter 10). Anyway, for me, as a 80/20 (manual/auto) fighter, who only caters when I see no other option, 2 max armories with a level 1 shrooms has always kept me in all the troops I need. I have a training grounds. Never placed the merc camp. I try and get the big stuff for free from passive buildings.

 

[ajqtrz]

I have 6 armories, use 1 ELR, 1 MM, 1 DA, and 1 MM each week with my various military AW's at about 16-21. I craft madly, keep my military queues up and full 24/7. On the other side I autofight the tournament, convince my way to the top of the Spire and cater any encounters as I'm too lazy to fight them. I average just over 5k on the tournament but, at one time, did 8k average. (I dropped because my fs is getting strong I don't need to do that much each week to get to our 12 chest goal).

In reading what you've said it sounds like you are headed to play as I do...a sort of 50/50 fight/negotiate ratio. If so, my layout works very well for me and would, I think, for you, but only if you are here a LOT. I'm checking in 6-8 times a day at least.

It mostly depends on how much you want to be here. Military works, especially if you fight rather than autofight, but it takes so much time. If you don't want to be here for hours, you autofight.

In the end, a "middle of the road" approach like you appear to be headed for, seems to be the answer. And for that 6 armouries is what I found I needed (I'm in chapter 18 btw).

That's my take on it for now, anyway.

AJ

 

[samidodamage]

I took a look at your city, and I'd recommend placing Shrewdy Shrooms AW instead of another armory. Shrewdy works off your total number of Armory levels. That's what makes @crackie's "toss out a few low level armories for a quick boost" work. Personally, at my stage of the game, I built a couple lvl 15 armories (highest level that takes 16 squares or less, relatively small and easy to place at this level). With Spire participation, teleports are not an issue, so I just pop them in and out of storage as needed. They are stored right now. BTW, I learned this trick pre-Spire and they were still relatively cheap and fast to build/sell as needed.
My lvl 23 Shrewdy creates this:

This does extend your total training time. Mine is over 15 hours, but with the collection boost from Simia, I'm making ~3 squads/slot. Since I have no issues with enough cerebus ever (and I get my Orc troops from event/crafted bldgs), never use Dryads or Banshees, I don't care that it's over 3 hours. My other 2 bldgs are also over 3hrs/slot right now, so I'm working on the Needles and Flying Academy to get those times down to 3hrs. 3 squads/3hrs = 1 squad/hr; 24 squads/day/bldg.
I chose Training Grounds for a pic because my other 2 bldgs are training units with weights of 2+, so it's harder to compare training size/squad size.

Note that I've finished Ch17 and my armories are fully leveled, so a bit higher level than yours.
The 6811 'Training Bonus' comes from a lvl 21 Bulwark. Bulwark is lower lvl because for years I skipped all optional Squad Size upgrades (to make tourney less costly). I went back and took those optional techs after they changed the tourney structure and then started upgrading the Bulwark. I *think* it was lvl 7 or so when I got Shrewdy, and from that point onward I focused on Shrewdy exclusively until those tourney changes. At this point for you, I'd think the relatively small amount of kp to upgrade Shrewdy would produce a bigger benefit to training size. Especially when you consider your lvl 21 Bulwark will take 1200kp for the next upgrade
My city parked at the beginning of Ch18 just added a 5th armory and I'm 100% combat to the top of the Spire weekly for years; 95% combat in tourneys. I only needed the 5th armory because time constraints cause me to need to auto-fight more often.* That and the fact that I'm working on the long(er) term goal of getting to 10K every week in the tourney. I like consistency, so I started in late Dec 2021 doing 8100 every week (30provincesX6rounds). I had a little blip in there one week (the beginning of my time constraints/auto-fighting) A little over a month ago I increased that to 8370/wk (31x6) and I added the 5th armory about 2 weeks ago. I also teleport 4 of them during the FA's.

*well, that and the fact that I'm a hoarder by nature, lol! I panic if my available squads drop below that >999 on browser, lol and furiously train to reduce the anxiety, lol!

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

My chapter 19 city had 6 maxed armories through chapter 17 and orcs were never a problem, since, as a fighter, I only needed them for building and upgrading and research and not for catering. So I decided to sell two or them and that worked for a while, until the need for orcs went so high late in chapter 18, and then in chapter 19, that I had to put out 4 Orc Nests, plus keep event buildings upgraded that make orcs, plus work on the AWs that give orcs. Speaking of AWs, you won't get it until end of chapter 19, but one of the AWs for that chapter gives orcs based on your total tournament points, which are awarded each Saturday when the tourney ends.

 

[crackie]

I use lvl 4 armories for quick spamming because you can more easily cram 2x2 building into nook and cranny spaces. A lvl 15 armory gets you +40 training size while 4 level 4 armories gets you +36 for the same footprint. However, you need way less population with minis. Another advantage is the little armories takes almost no time at all to build. After lvl 3, each armory upgrade is over 1.5hrs. It'll take awhile to get it to lvl 15. With a high enough Shrewdy, even a bunch of lvl 1 armories are good enough to extend the queue a long time and they only take 1 min to build. Then I don't have to worry about using teleports on them since they're all disposable!

Never placed the merc camp. I try and get the big stuff for free from passive buildings.

But but...Blossoms!!!

 

[samidodamage]

you need way less population with minis.

I think I did say I was a hoarder:

Population is not a problem, lol! And I don't have one single residence in that city either! I have several magic ones in storage if I ever feel like I'm getting low...

And I think the reason @Huor doesn't *need* the Blossoms is because he's a Human and they have Priests.

 

[defiantoneks]

i have three and find it to be sufficient. if you expect instant restock on troops, then more would be needed. i usually find, unless i overextend myself, that i can restock by the next tourney & spire rotation. and i mostly fight with catering only when it gets really nasty, so my cater is less frequent but higher costs. whatever that may mean.

 

[crackie]

I think I did say I was a hoarder:
View attachment 12829
Population is not a problem, lol! And I don't have one single residence in that city either! I have several magic ones in storage if I ever feel like I'm getting low...

And I think the reason @Huor doesn't *need* the Blossoms is because he's a Human and they have Priests.

That makes me scared to know how much population @helya has in her city...

 

[Yavimaya]

I have 4 armories. I'm a fighter that caters on the harder battles. But I'm only in ch.11.... so idk. It's all about your own playing style as everybody is different. I use my brown bear and every military AW I have unlocked and am creating buildings all the time in the ma so the 5 day military ones show up most and always craft them when they do.

 

[Darielle]

I use lvl 4 armories for quick spamming because you can more easily cram 2x2 building into nook and cranny spaces. A lvl 15 armory gets you +40 training size while 4 level 4 armories gets you +36 for the same footprint. However, you need way less population with minis. Another advantage is the little armories takes almost no time at all to build. After lvl 3, each armory upgrade is over 1.5hrs. It'll take awhile to get it to lvl 15. With a high enough Shrewdy, even a bunch of lvl 1 armories are good enough to extend the queue a long time and they only take 1 min to build. Then I don't have to worry about using teleports on them since they're all disposable!

But but...Blossoms!!!

Wow, I never would have thought about that low level armory stuff. Great info!

 

[Darielle]

I took a look at your city, and I'd recommend placing Shrewdy Shrooms AW instead of another armory. Shrewdy works off your total number of Armory levels. That's what makes @crackie's "toss out a few low level armories for a quick boost" work. Personally, at my stage of the game, I built a couple lvl 15 armories (highest level that takes 16 squares or less, relatively small and easy to place at this level). With Spire participation, teleports are not an issue, so I just pop them in and out of storage as needed. They are stored right now. BTW, I learned this trick pre-Spire and they were still relatively cheap and fast to build/sell as needed.
My lvl 23 Shrewdy creates this:
View attachment 12823View attachment 12824
This does extend your total training time. Mine is over 15 hours, but with the collection boost from Simia, I'm making ~3 squads/slot. Since I have no issues with enough cerebus ever (and I get my Orc troops from event/crafted bldgs), never use Dryads or Banshees, I don't care that it's over 3 hours. My other 2 bldgs are also over 3hrs/slot right now, so I'm working on the Needles and Flying Academy to get those times down to 3hrs. 3 squads/3hrs = 1 squad/hr; 24 squads/day/bldg.
I chose Training Grounds for a pic because my other 2 bldgs are training units with weights of 2+, so it's harder to compare training size/squad size.
View attachment 12826View attachment 12827
Note that I've finished Ch17 and my armories are fully leveled, so a bit higher level than yours.
The 6811 'Training Bonus' comes from a lvl 21 Bulwark. Bulwark is lower lvl because for years I skipped all optional Squad Size upgrades (to make tourney less costly). I went back and took those optional techs after they changed the tourney structure and then started upgrading the Bulwark. I *think* it was lvl 7 or so when I got Shrewdy, and from that point onward I focused on Shrewdy exclusively until those tourney changes. At this point for you, I'd think the relatively small amount of kp to upgrade Shrewdy would produce a bigger benefit to training size. Especially when you consider your lvl 21 Bulwark will take 1200kp for the next upgrade
My city parked at the beginning of Ch18 just added a 5th armory and I'm 100% combat to the top of the Spire weekly for years; 95% combat in tourneys. I only needed the 5th armory because time constraints cause me to need to auto-fight more often.* That and the fact that I'm working on the long(er) term goal of getting to 10K every week in the tourney. I like consistency, so I started in late Dec 2021 doing 8100 every week (30provincesX6rounds). I had a little blip in there one week (the beginning of my time constraints/auto-fighting) A little over a month ago I increased that to 8370/wk (31x6) and I added the 5th armory about 2 weeks ago. I also teleport 4 of them during the FA's.

*well, that and the fact that I'm a hoarder by nature, lol! I panic if my available squads drop below that >999 on browser, lol and furiously train to reduce the anxiety, lol!

I never really thought about a Shrewdy ... after you posted this I went back to look at it and I think, "Woah, brain freeze that I haven't gotten it sooner."

Thanks so much for all this info.

 

[Darielle]

I have 6 armories, use 1 ELR, 1 MM, 1 DA, and 1 MM each week with my various military AW's at about 16-21. I craft madly, keep my military queues up and full 24/7. On the other side I autofight the tournament, convince my way to the top of the Spire and cater any encounters as I'm too lazy to fight them. I average just over 5k on the tournament but, at one time, did 8k average. (I dropped because my fs is getting strong I don't need to do that much each week to get to our 12 chest goal).

In reading what you've said it sounds like you are headed to play as I do...a sort of 50/50 fight/negotiate ratio. If so, my layout works very well for me and would, I think, for you, but only if you are here a LOT. I'm checking in 6-8 times a day at least.

It mostly depends on how much you want to be here. Military works, especially if you fight rather than autofight, but it takes so much time. If you don't want to be here for hours, you autofight.

In the end, a "middle of the road" approach like you appear to be headed for, seems to be the answer. And for that 6 armouries is what I found I needed (I'm in chapter 18 btw).

That's my take on it for now, anyway.

AJ

I'm going to need to rethink everything, based on all the advice in this thread. Thanks for the input; it's very valuable.

 

[Darielle]

I'm looking forward to working on my city, armed with this knowledge.

And for those who asked, I'll tell you what I have:
4- level 37 armories
1-level 37 barracks
1- level 20 merc camp
1- level 28 training grounds
military wonders:
level 21 Martial Monastery
level 16 needles
level 16 dwarven bulwark
level 13 temple toads

As you can see, I haven't built up many fighting wonders, concentrating on prosperity tower, pyramid of p, golden abyss, sunset towers, simia, timewarp, dragon abbey, mountain halls.

Should I do flying academy or heroes forge, in addition to shrewdy?

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Not sure why you are counting the Dragon Abbey as a military Wonder, since it increases mage damage.

 

[samidodamage]

Personally, I'd do Flying Academy. I find I have plenty of orcs (lol, of course I do!) and the increased damage for HeavyMelee troops that I rarely use (and get the boost from my Fire Chicken when I do) is unimportant for me. The FA, however, helps reduce the training time in the Merc Camp; I find I need to use it and Needles for the Barracks to help offset outrageous training times caused by really high training size.

 

[Yavimaya]

I'm looking forward to working on my city, armed with this knowledge.

And for those who asked, I'll tell you what I have:
4- level 37 armories
1-level 37 barracks
1- level 20 merc camp
1- level 28 training grounds
military wonders:
level 21 Martial Monastery
level 16 needles
level 16 dwarven bulwark
level 13 temple toads

As you can see, I haven't built up many fighting wonders, concentrating on prosperity tower, pyramid of p, golden abyss, sunset towers, simia, timewarp, dragon abbey, mountain halls.

Should I do flying academy or heroes forge, in addition to shrewdy?

I would personally. I have those ones.

 

[Darielle]

Not sure why you are counting the Dragon Abbey as a military Wonder, since it increases mage damage.

Nope, not counting Dragon as a military. It's in the lower section with the other non military. I probably wasn't clear in the way I worded it.

 

[Darielle]

Personally, I'd do Flying Academy. I find I have plenty of orcs (lol, of course I do!) and the increased damage for HeavyMelee troops that I rarely use (and get the boost from my Fire Chicken when I do) is unimportant for me. The FA, however, helps reduce the training time in the Merc Camp; I find I need to use it and Needles for the Barracks to help offset outrageous training times caused by really high training size.

I can't think of anyone who would know more about fighting, so I'll take that advice as soon as I can. Thank you again.