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    Your Elvenar Team

Artifact Exchange

Vanddal

New Member
Idea: Allow exchanges for 2 of any artifact for 1 of any other artifact.

Reason: Unusable prizes from FAs and Spire. I have 53 unused artifacts with the majority of them having no available evolution building.

Implementaion should be relatively easy considering we have already seen the phoenix artifacts available to trade for coldfire artifacts.
 

OIM20

Well-Known Member
I don't think the devs would go for this one at that exchange rate. I say that because disenchanting an artifact gets you 1500 spell fragments. The current rate for crafting an artifact in the MA is 10,000 spell fragments plus a blueprint (I think it's just one, but someone please let me know if I have that wrong). At an exchange rate of 2:1, they would be allowing a significant advantage to those who have somehow appeased the RNG gods to get the Spire artifacts.

Just the spell fragments is more than 6 artifacts, and to convert a blueprint into spell fragments, I'm not sure what that would be. I think the exchange rate would need to be significantly more "in favor of the house" for them to consider this. Maybe 10:1. I realize that sounds steep, but you're already complaining that you simply have artifacts sitting in your inventory doing nothing.

Not saying it's not a good idea, just saying I think the devs would want a higher exchange rate in order to maintain some semblance of 'fairness' or balance with the current craftable rate.

Also, is this something that would be subject to the rotational RNG whim of the MA? Or would this be something that would be more in line with @SoggyShorts' Spire Shop idea? (That one's been forwarded already; I'm just trying to see where this would be implemented best, as that's possibly something to mention in the suggestion before it goes to vote.)
 

defiantoneks

Well-Known Member
i would love to be able to have a true trade system for artifacts and maybe other items, even if its limited to fellowship members.
what a team building boost it would be to swap my extra gingy house artifacts to someone who wants them & get stonehenge in return.
 

BrinDarby

Well-Known Member
Panda Bear artifacts were (for a short time during event) exchangable 2:1 for Bear artifacts.
Ashton Ph. artifacts were (for a short time during event) exchangable 2:1 for Phoenix artifacts.

The 3BP +10,000 frags is seperate, and overpriced for just 1 artifact.

I don't have 53 odd artifacts xtra, more like 6-10, but I can see abuse here
even tho I agree with the premise of any 2 for any 1... or some type of way
to trade.... Inno tho, will see this as loss of revenue, and won't implement.
 

Yawner

New Member
I would love to find a better way to rid myself of artifacts, and I doubt anyone needs more spell fragments!
 

Huor

Guest
I personally would like to see the ability added to the trader and let the players sort it all out. You can add the entire inventory to the list for that matter. But that's just me. lol. I can see where cheating could be an issue, but it can be spread out over chapters to not make it worth while. Sorry to go off the reservation there.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
@OIM20 I agree, in general, that the exchange rate of 2:1 would be better than the current cost via the MA. However, given the 2 for 1 rate it would make pretty short work of most excess artifacts in storage and, in the long run, be a viable solution. The problem is having an abundance of artifacts you can't use and this solution would "drain" that abundance pretty quickly.

AJ
 

OIM20

Well-Known Member
The post @Lelanya referenced, excerpted:
Have an event - for instance every half year but not too often - in which players get the chance to exchange old artefacts among each other. But of course, this option is only valid if we then have a use for the old ones.
from here: https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/inde...g-with-old-overdue-artefacts.15830/post-93224

And there's always @Jackluyt's Artifact Fragments suggestion, and a thread mentioning a variation thereof: https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/evolving-buildings.15618/
_______________________________​
A little "devil's advocate", bearing in mind the first bullet point from helya's post:
Is it realistic? Does it bring added value? Does the Development Team have to change too much to the existing game? Can the Development Team time be well spent on another suggestion?
1) Is it realistic to expect the development team to completely devalue their current artifact crafting table by allowing a 2:1 exchange rate? I don't think that's a realistic expectation. So whether the low exchange rate would alleviate a single player's excess inventory isn't the issue so much as would the developers agree that allowing a benefit for any players who have this type of excess be worth alienating the rest of their user base?

2) Do the developers even see this as a problem at all? And more, one that requires a solution?
  • They have allowed exchanges during events, but this would allow that access all the time. If the developers are limiting the exchange access to events in order to get players online during financially lucrative points of the year, why would they permit the exact same exchange rate during points that are not as fiscally profitable to them?
  • There is no inventory cap, so no reason to see this as limiting gameplay.
  • They may already have plans to use some of the artifacts for exchanges. The Spire prizes that exist now were in the works, I believe @helya said, for over a year. It is entirely possible that the devs already have something in mind for the artifacts they see the most of sitting in active players' inventories.
3) Assuming that there are no plans already in development regarding some of the artifacts that can be used in recurring themed events, what would they need to change to allow such an artifact exchange?
  • Is this something that would be added to the trader?
    • If so, are we talking about just adding a new tab? Or would this require adding a new researchable tech to the tech tree? What chapter would you put it in? Where would you put it on the tree? How much would it cost in KP? How much would it cost to activate it?
    • Would the feature be something that would be restricted to your FS? Would it be server-wide? (Since there is no "FS only" trade feature currently, that would have to be created as well.)
  • Is this something that would have more place in the Spire Shop that's already been presented to them?
    • In Soggy's shop, the points for purple goo are already being accrued and exchanged for desired artifacts, which are only available for a limited period. (Thread is linked above.) Adding in a feature to exchange inventoried artifacts for the artifacts currently existing in the Spire (which would then be available in the shop) would be significantly easier than adding this to the trader. It would also be more conducive to obtaining the 2:1 ratio.
    • Yes, I realize that working with an idea that has not yet been implemented in the game as though it can be modified already can be risky. However, there is also reward in this approach: by showing the devs the potential of the feature already under consideration but not yet implemented in the game, you increase the value of that feature to them. I'm in favor of that. And if showing them the potential solutions to persistent player complaints lies not in modifying existing features but in modifying proposed features can convince the devs that the proposed changes are beneficial and results in them creating the features we want, then I would happily use that tactic in presenting the idea to them.
4) You can't really answer that question without having more detail on what this would entail to create, considering what it would cause to become 'unbalanced' or 'unfair', and what other proposals might possibly be sitting in front of the devs for consideration, along with their requirements and detractions. This particular proposal immediately brings to mind the artifacts in the MA and how those crafting them would feel slighted by the low proposed exchange rate. It's a con of the proposal for those who don't have beaucoups of previous artifacts in their inventories as well as to the devs who sat around deciding what a single phoenix artifact should cost to craft. That's a relatively new feature itself, and saying, "What about using old artifacts instead of blueprints?" is a world different from saying, "What about decreasing the cost by a factor of 7?" (number is arbitrary; no math was involved in picking it)

Bear in mind that these are the questions the devs have to sit around and think about when creating these features. They want to make the game fun and interesting.

I am more than supportive of measures that reward rather than punish players, especially those who have been here for a time. Without their having continued to play the game, it wouldn't still be here for people like me who only discovered it earlier this year due to an ad on the Firefox homepage. My intent in offering counterpoints is only to promote consideration of some of the points the devs would likely question. (I can't possibly think of them all.)

So while I think having an exchange for artifacts that are simply sitting in the inventory is a decent proposal, I also think there are some points the devs are going to want more thought on before attempting to implement such a plan. Consider: if you present a concise yet precise plan for implementation of the idea up front, that is less time that they have to spend hashing out how to add the feature you want into the game and more time they can dedicate to simply adding it.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
@OIM20

Answers:

1) Is it realistic? It may be unrealistic for the developers to "devalue" their MA artifact table, but this isn't really what would occur except on a limited time scale. There may be a period of time that the offers to craft artifacts are less accepted, but in the long run the excess artifact inventory would shrink and the actual perceived value of the artifacts return to the price asked. Right now the excess inventory is an unusable resource. Once that resource is used up, it's gone and the asked for price will be the price accepted if the player determines it's worth it.

In addition, is the use of a wide ranging 2:1 ratio of exchange anything more than what has twice been done in the MA? -- though for specific exchanges, of course. The ratio has twice been 2:1 and only the duration and ranges of the offer would change. Since it's been done, short term, the only issue is making it, more or less, permanent and building a rotation of offers. One week two of these for one of those, sort of thing. This would "draw down" the amount of artifact inventory, and give the players a sense that they artifacts they earn/win have some value (they have none in inventory if they are for evolving buildings already built and at maximum evolution). This would help a lot of mid-range players who might be short one or two artifacts they need because they were unable to earn the full compliment needed during the event and the FA afterward. In essence they could substitute the "extras" or ones they didn't intend to use, for what they were short.

2) Do the developers see this as a problem? I doubt they see it as much of a problem for the reasons you offer. However, game play is not about what the developers see as a problem, but what needlessly hinders or undermines the value of the time and effort the players put into the game. If you can make the game more enjoyable without drastically changing it's game play, and you can do it fairly easily, it should be done for the "bottom line."

I can't answer to how it might work in the trader, but mechanics for the MA are already in place and all that needs to be done is make a rotation of offers -- just as they do in the Spire for artifacts. The OP seemed to have this in mind in his/her post as well.

3) While it is possible to add this to the Spire, via Soggy's good suggestion, it would be easier to parallel the method used in offering artifacts in the Spire, as noted immediately above. Easier, faster, and just as effective in solving the excess artifact inventory problem many of us perceive to be a problem.

4) Predicting real world responses to change is a matter of looking at who benefits and who looses. In this case a lot of mid to upper level players who have accumulated a bunch of, now worthless, artifacts, would benefit. Lower level players, not so much, but how would they be harmed? Maybe they would be offered only the offers for the excesses they actually have? I they have 2 cold phoenix artifacts in their inventory they might be able to trade them for 1 bear, for instance. If they don't then the offer isn't made. Here I'm thinking of the MA offer rather than the Spire idea.

In the end I do see some downsides to the idea, but not enough to think it a bad idea. And I do think the alternative proposed by Soggy would take a lot more programming and, since it seems to be offered as a solution to largely the same problem, perhaps cheaper and easier to implement is better?

Finally, I appreciate, very much, your measured and careful analysis and discussion of this matter. As one who, too often, "shoots from the hip" you remind me to be more careful and think a bit more before I respond. Thanks.!

AJ
 
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