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    Your Elvenar Team

Autofight Fails

StarLoad

Well-Known Member
Visual representation of why the 3* frogs are great, and I have two Witch Huts making all them frogs for Free ...

Ai5.png

Pre-battle selection
Ai6.jpg

Thye fired First

Ai7.png


Losses but considering that only 1 was or should have been a easy kill (the Dryad) and it was 2 shot, overall the will is good and shows the power of the frog with just the Fire Chicken fed.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
Actually it will likely have lower troop losses as the wonky AI wont think whom to fight whom, and just fire away. I have tried to compare my manual fighting by watching the battle to its end with the auto complete on and dont think that the losses are worse, or not that much more.
Are you manual fighting with 5 of the same units across the board or actually manual fighting with best matchup pairings?

I started manual fighting out of necessity since my troop levels stayed at 5x through a few of the early chapters. I also wrongly thought early on that if a stack got damaged, I’d lose the entire stack of troops. One day, I actually did the math to realize that’s not true, but that false belief trained me early on to be such an efficient manual fighter. So my default manual fighting mode is not just to win the encounter but do it with the least possible damage. My squad size after manual fighting vs autofighting numbers are not even close. Thankfully, I got more military wonders now and can afford to march the troops to their deaths autofighting the tourney. I still manual fight the Lab though.
 

StarLoad

Well-Known Member
Are you manual fighting with 5 of the same units across the board or actually manual fighting with best matchup pairings?
...
I usually auto-fight using 5 of the same, unless that isnt possible then I look for the best matchup usually 3 Golems and 2 Archers and only if its in a higher province will I manual fight. Usually if I manual fight it is because I want to use frogs or blossom mages to slaughter the enemy and enjoy doing it.
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I always autofight. The most I'll do is two types of troops. I learned long ago that trying to use three different kinds of troops, unless you are in a SUPER easy fight, will automatically lose you the battle. For the really really tough fights, I prefer to be able to use only 1 type of troop. For example, if the enemy has say, three waves in which the first wave is mostly heavy melee, the second wave is mostly mages, and the third wave is mostly archers, well, I might just try 5 archers, with a good ELR or two backing me up and some other buffs. But if the first wave was heavy range instead of heavy melee, I might just negotiate that spire encounter. It all depends.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
For example, if the enemy has say, three waves in which the first wave is mostly heavy melee, the second wave is mostly mages, and the third wave is mostly archers, well, I might just try 5 archers, with a good ELR or two backing me up and some other buffs.
I’ve noticed the top robot boss in the Lab has been like this for the past few weeks. It’s been a skip in the park to beat him with just archers. As I’ve mentioned in the other Spire thread, the gate bosses are the only time in the Lab where you start with a numbers advantage. So if you do meet a bunch of bumbling heavy melee, your archers will skip on to wave two untouched, which means you carry the numbers advantage into wave 2 as well. If you have ELR, high Needles, or Fire, archers can destroy mages too and skip on through again. It’s def been a lot easier to beat top boss guy than the chests before him for sure.

I get in general, the Lab is supposed to be very hard, esp since it’s no walk in the park to cater either. But for more mundane battle encounters, the autobattle system definitely needs improvement. It shouldn’t be reliant on feeding Fire Phoenix and dropping down buffs to win. Like someone starting out in only Chapter 3 prob doesn’t have access to a level 10 Fire Phoenix or even a level 5 MA to be cranking out enough CCs to be crafting buff buildings all week. Not to mention, their level 1 units are already fighting with sticks and stones. To pick 5 of the same units is also against intuition. Therefore, the default autofight mode for the average person is prob wonky battling and that is just terrible, esp since troop production early game is equally horrid.
 

Morbus

New Member
You want to know a secret about troop placement? Your placement from top to bottom is not in order of the slots from 1-5, it is 1, 3, 5, 4, 2. In other words, your first slot is the top spot, the second slot is the bottom spot, etc. This only matters when not using all of the same troop, but can be huge when mixing troops in auto-fight.

Also, it seems the worst of the AI decisions for your troops can happen on the first turn. So manually controlling your troops until after the enemy makes their first move, and then clicking auto-fight, will make a big difference. Especially if the terrain is against you.
Hi...I'm trying to understand your secret. You say slot 1-5 correspond to fight screen placement from top to bottom 1,3,5,4,2 But your next statement says the second slot is the bottom spot??? This seems contradictory to your number placement. Wouldn't that make 5 the second slot?
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Hi...I'm trying to understand your secret. You say slot 1-5 correspond to fight screen placement from top to bottom 1,3,5,4,2 But your next statement says the second slot is the bottom spot??? This seems contradictory to your number placement. Wouldn't that make 5 the second slot?

Like I said in a following post, I remembered incorrectly the exact weird placement the game uses, but regardless, it is still not 1-5 from top to bottom, like common sense says it would be.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
@Morbus It goes center, above, below, above, below, and keeps stacking like that until you run out of troops. Visual of setup position (from wiki):
Battlefield.png
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
@crackie So...the first troop I select goes in the middle and moves first?

Then above/below, above/below. So last troop I pick ends at the bottom..and moves last?
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
That's the starting placement of your units when you count across the pre-battle unit selection window to be 1,2,3,4,5. In provinces where there are still potential of battling more than 5 units at a time, that stacking order just keeps going after 5 (as shown in the image). That is not the same as the order of battle though. The initiative number determines who goes when. The higher the initiative, the earlier they go. Initiative is the last column under attributes found here.

In theory then, since archers go first so if you have ELRs, fed Fire Phoenix, or high Needles, you could easily line your archers across the mages and take them out with one shot on opening round, barring no obstacles stopping them from walking forward. In practice, they're led by the same general that decided to put a fortress in a garden.
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
@crackie So...the first troop I select goes in the middle and moves first?

Then above/below, above/below. So last troop I pick ends at the bottom..and moves last?

BTW, this is a really good question because it doesn't even show the initiative attributes in the troop info on the app, but you can see it visiting army camp on the browser version of the game. Hence, a lot of people don't even know what it is. One time, I was talking about it in chat and someone thought I was misusing the English language because he only plays on the app. I had to explain, no that's really what the fighting order attribute is called! After sending him to the wiki to confirm, he concluded it's not me, but the Germans that are butchering the English language then. But yeah, if you end up with a funnel terrain, things like initiative and position are critical. You don't want your heavy melee in the middle and clogging up the train. They go last!
 

crackie

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, Buddy's #1 Fan
This week's battle observation is if troops are of the same type (share initiative number), what determines their turn order is the highest position number. For example, if you have 5 archers (share initiative number), archer in position V goes first, then IV, III, II, then I.

Battlefield.png
 
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