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    Your Elvenar Team

Autumn Event "random" quest testing

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
I originally posted this in the feedback thread for the event, but I figured it would just get lost in there and decided to make a separate thread to test this.

As I am preparing for whatever I get of the random, or semi-random, quests from #30 and up, I have been looking at the lists on elvengems and how they are grouped, and remembering the complaints on the Beta forum about getting the same quests more than once in a row, and I think I have realized Inno's potential screw-up with the system. There are two sets of potential quests for #30-59 and #60-89 and then for #90+. There are two specific lines of text to intro the quests, one for each set of quests. With the exception of the goods production quests, both lists in each group seem to have the same quests, but because they have different intro text, they are technically not the exact same quest. For example, one of the Beta complaints was getting Produce X Toolboxes multiple times in a row and thinking they are getting the exact same quest each time. They probably were not because the first came from one list and then the next came from the other list, etc. To the coding and the RNG of the event, they are getting a different quest each time, even though it is requesting the same thing.

So to prove if this is what is happening, and Inno screwed up their programming this way, can people watch the text of each quest to see if what seems like the same quest two or more times in a row is actually not? I do not have a Beta account, so I cannot comment about this there, but can someone here who is also on Beta ask people about this there too?

In between my original post and moving it to this thread, I got the first four "random" quests and they alternated between the two lists on the elvengems site: left list, right list, left list, right list. If this is the pattern that continues with all the "random" quests, a player could easily get the same request multiple times in a row without it actually being the same quest each time.

@Fairy Dust if this holds true, Inno will need to fix this before the next event, if they want to avoid this kind of problem and complaint.
 

Deleted User - 312108

Guest
@Enevhar Aldarion All I can say is it is one of the reasons I would prefer they have a single list of quests where each quest gives event currency based on the effort/cost involved to complete it rather than the multiple lists with a (brain moment, the word I want currently doesn't exist... so I am going to use this one) the +1 each quest award to a max. I would still like to see certain quests be conditional so that they cannot appear too often, but have more appearances of 'easy' quests such as spend KP, invest KP, give NH, Post/Accept trades, even if they were only valued for 5-10 event currency.

If you are able to progress through the event, with the event currency maxing out at 188 currency per quests, you get a lot of it. It will be interesting to see where folks max out on currency (or evolved bears) at the end of the event.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
After several more quests done today, the quests from #30 and up definitely alternate from between the two quest lists, and I finally got the same request two times in a row, but because each came from a separate list, it was technically not the exact same quest repeating. If this format continues to be used, there has to be more variation between the two lists, so that there is less chance to have to fulfill the same request multiple times in a row.
 

Deleted User - 3932582

Guest
After several more quests done today, the quests from #30 and up definitely alternate from between the two quest lists, and I finally got the same request two times in a row, but because each came from a separate list, it was technically not the exact same quest repeating. If this format continues to be used, there has to be more variation between the two lists, so that there is less chance to have to fulfill the same request multiple times in a row.
I believe it was mentioned a while ago either on elvengems or on beta forums that quests alternate between those two pools. This means you can only get T1 quests on odd-numbered quests; everything else can show up at any point. This seems to be done by design.
 

Deleted User - 3932582

Guest
And speaking of random distributions, if you still think that underlying probabilities for quests are uniformly distributed, well, we can put this idea to rest. Ability to drop probabilities to selected subset of quests (e.g. workshops) would be enough to confirm that. But kind people on beta collected more stats here:

https://beta.forum.elvenar.com/index.php?threads/autumn-zodiac.13647/page-25#post-78609

With that large sample size (1420 quests on beta and 372 quests on live so far), and the numbers they've got there - well, let's just say that it would be extremely unlikely that relics, tournaments, scouts (some of the heavy stuff) have the same true probability of appearing as, say, gain supplies quest.

You may also note that observed scouts frequencies are almost double on live vs beta - and that's likely before the increase in frequencies due to reducing WS quest frequencies.

Given that non-uniformity of RNG in at least one place is practically confirmed by this data, one can start question other non-published distributions in the game (e.g. MA recipes).
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
I believe it was mentioned a while ago either on elvengems or on beta forums that quests alternate between those two pools. This means you can only get T1 quests on odd-numbered quests; everything else can show up at any point. This seems to be done by design.

This is what elvengems has to say:

"These quests are not the same at all for players; any quest from either list could appear, in any order."

There is nothing on that website that says the quests alternate between the two lists.

And I have been reading the Beta feedback thread and do not remember seeing any posts at all about the quests alternating.

Once I have completed quests 30-59, I will post the list here.
 

Deleted User - 3932582

Guest
Once I have completed quests 30-59, I will post the list here.
I have completed this segment, and descriptions do alternate, even though I stopped checking at some point. I also checked all my T1 quests since #30, and all have been on odd quests.
 

Deleted User - 312108

Guest
I may have to double check the quest blurby text. I have not been going against the list, but have been tracking quests (did miss a few, but oh well). I'll run some stats later, but will probably do a more whole grouping vs. by the blurby text and lump all gain relic, solve encounter/tourney encounter into their subgroup vs. by individual.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Quests 30-59:

Gain a big amount of coins
Gain 200 spell fragments
Produce 3 toolboxes
Produce 4 advanced tools
Gain 3 enchantment items
Solve 25 tournament encounters or 5 encounters
Produce 4 baskets of groceries
Buy 10 KP
Scout, research or gain 15 VV
Produce a fair amount of marble
Produce 4 baskets of groceries
Gain 7 relics
Buy 10 KP
Recruit a stack of units
Recruit a stack of units
Spend 10 KP
Buy 10 KP
Produce a fair amount of marble
Solve 3 Spire encounters or 3 encounters
Solve 25 tournament encounters or 5 encounters
Produce 4 advanced tools
Buy 10 KP
Spend 10 KP
Produce 3 marble mosaics
Recruit a stack of units
Produce a fair amount of marble - auto-completed by whatever happened in the game Wed morning
Gain 7 relics
Recruit a stack of units
Scout, research or gain 15 VV
Gain 3 enchantments

So the randomness from the available quests for this set was fairly nice to me, with only one time having the same request back to back, and ones with longer time requirements lined up nicely with sleep and work.

I will not list all 30 of the quests my girlfriend got in her city, but she got the back-to-back stuff multiple times, getting Recruit Units back-to-back three different times and Scout, Research or VV once back-to-back.

She has an Elf city early in chapter 11 and I have a Human city done with chapter 14, but I doubt any of that is factored into the randomness.
 
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Deleted User - 3932582

Guest
Not a bad list at all - so many buy/spend KPs! I wish I had those. I am close to quest 90, so about 60 randomized quests, and I haven't had a single buy or spend KP quest. Not a single gain supplies (and only one gain coins) quest. Basically, none of these real easy stuff.
 

Deleted User - 312108

Guest
@MinMax Gamer Far too many encounter/tourney encounter, scout/research and gain relic quests.... I get so relieved when I see a workshop quest or a T1 quest or even a spell fragment quest. The 2 and 3x in a row is what is getting to me.

upload_2019-9-27_0-7-32.png
 

acefair

Member
4 of the last 5 quest have been "Scout 1 Province or Research 1 Technology or Gain 15 Vision Vapor!" My scouts run 77 hours. I have no technologies to research (at end of Constructs). So, Vision Vapor again - I don't think so. I try not to complain, but this is ridiculous.
I agree. I have had a similar issue, but one of my fellows has it worse. She received that quest FIVE times in a row!
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Finished the second batch of 30 "random" quests just before 5 full days of the event.

Quests 60-89:

Produce 3 toolboxes
Gain 9 relics
Gain 9 relics
Gain 4 enchantments
Produce 7 bread
Produce 6 advanced tools
Recruit 2 stacks of units
Recruit 2 stacks of units
Recruit 2 stacks of units
Gain 5 vision vapor OR research a tech
Gain 9 relics
Scout, Research or Gain 15 VV
Scout, Research or Gain 15 VV
Produce 47k marble
Gain 9 relics
Complete 35 tournament encounters or 7 encounters
Produce 3 toolboxes
Gain 382k supplies
Complete 35 tourn enc or 7 enc
Complete 35 tourn enc or 7 enc
Produce 6 advanced tools
Recruit 2 stacks of units
Gain 300 spell fragments OR Scout a province
Produce 5 marble mosaics
Scout, research, or gain 15 VV
Recruit 2 stacks of units
Recruit 2 stacks of units
Complete 35 tourn enc or 7 enc
Produce 3 toolboxes
Scout, research or gain 15 VV

This batch was definitely more repetitive than 30-59 was, but still done in 48 hours with some good timing and some Time reduction instants. Plus this being the marble tournament and not last week's gems tournament really helped with those encounter tasks. Getting those before the planks tournament starts next week will definitely slow me down.

Next will be the more interesting batch, since 90+ are the real never ending ones. Time to see how much of a rut I get stuck in. lol
 

DeletedUser23708

Guest
@MinMax Gamer Far too many encounter/tourney encounter, scout/research and gain relic quests.... I get so relieved when I see a workshop quest or a T1 quest or even a spell fragment quest. The 2 and 3x in a row is what is getting to me.


I am getting gain relics 3-5 times in a row, a beverage or spell fragments type quests, then gain relics 3-5 times in a row. This time I got toolboxes and I'm happy for the 24hr reprieve.

I could just stop, which is the logical thing, but my impulse control...:D:p;)

I haven't kept track of the quests like everyone else, but I have noticed the difference in the text. Like the T1 goods quests. It's produce not gain. Haven't noticed any saying gain. And some WS and T1 don't say the level limit so any level works on them.
 

Deleted User - 3932582

Guest
And some WS and T1 don't say the level limit so any level works on them.
This only happens in the first 29 quests. After that, all these quests are level-restricted.
 

DeletedUser23708

Guest
This only happens in the first 29 quests. After that, all these quests are level-restricted.

Oh! That makes sense and I wouldn't have noticed they go away since I haven't recieved WS quests for a good bit. Thank you for correcting my error or I'd have continued to maybe unknowingly lied to anyone who asked!!:D:D:D
 

DeletedUser24310

Guest
Don't like the way the quests work. I had the same quest 3 times in a row, finally got into another quest, now I have the same quest again. It is the one that you need 15 vapor, scout a province or get a new technology. Note that at my level of play, it takes 5 days to scout a province and I have no new technologies to get. This is really not fair to the people at the higher levels. There are no alternatives to the quest and if I wait for the province, the quests will be over.
 
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