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    Your Elvenar Team

Other Comments Away Feature

Add "AWAY" button that will pause decay (see post) and also the ability to play when activated

  • In Favor

    Votes: 34 85.0%
  • Not in Favor

    Votes: 6 15.0%

  • Total voters
    40
  • Poll closed .

ajqtrz

Well-Known Member
While I think the basic idea somewhat sound, I also think the average "hard-core" player -- the type who has played long enough and steady enough to be in chapters where decay can hurt -- who goes on vacation seldom does so without logging in during vacation. I also think the reason for their logging in is seldom just to collect goods that are decaying. In other words, the decay of goods is pressure to log in, but it's not a the major one for most players. I could, of course, be wrong.

In any case, if I'm right an away button would not make much difference to them. They would still play as much as possible, even when on vacation. In the long run, if you've been playing a long time you are quite used to decay and work with it. But what you really sign in for much of the time are all kinds of other things -- tournaments, spire, events, social contact, and so on. In other words, I don't believe avoiding decay is the primary thing that drives us to log in consistently. So I suggest we deal with the decay as a simple matter. Here's a way to do it that cuts down on the programming needed and makes better use of the "inspiring meditation" spells.

In reading the previous thread, one of the responders there -- I believe it may have been "deleteduser????", (though I could be wrong), suggested the "inspiring meditation" spell be used to give us an "away" option. Now the current point of the inspiring meditation spell is to increase the amount of KP you can collect because you may be gone more than 10 hours. So the concept of being gone is tied to it If, in addition to keeping our KP bar at 20, we could use them to also stop decay and stack them a bit, players could plan a vacation that stops the decay. It would take about 7 of them per week if they were set to 24 hours (1/2 of the current 48). This would, I suspect, increase their use as I also suspect most players don't use them much....I could be wrong, of course.

Just an idea.

AJ
 

DeletedUser27062

Guest
A player with RL problems who then feels a lack of enthusiasm about returning and so picks up a different game instead...would hurt Inno far more than letting that player take a break without a penalty.
The truth is that human behaviour is quite predictable and research shows that once ppl invest time and effort into something they are hard pressed to walk away from it. It's called the sunk cost bias and is a powerful motivator that keeps people investing in unrewarding things. You see this in folks who stay in bad relationships & jobs and in gambling. One-armed bandits type gambling machines are actually designed to exploit this bias.
 

Rocce Sqirl

Active Member
People take vacations, most commonly two weeks, sometimes just one, sometimes longer, maybe months. Maybe all summer. Or winter.
People get sick. I went to the ER with a "funny feeling" in my chest and came home home three weeks later after a double bypass.
People have jobs that send them traveling hither and yon for undetermined periods, perhaps without game access.
Doesn't matter the reason. It's a game, not our primary reason for living. An "Away" option keeps it in that mode.
My IMHO, choose the "Away" and everything stops, no less than a week, no more than a year. No coding for this or that time period, just off/on and a 365 day clock. "Return" can be activated at any time after a week. Failure to reactivate after 365 days and the city gets deleted.
 

Rocce Sqirl

Active Member
If a vote option was posted I'd vote for it.
As I suggested before, keep it simple. A basic off/on option ("Away," "Return"), 7-day minimum and a 365-day maximum.
You can't "return" before 7 days (if you're back earlier you must wait it out, that's the "penalty" for using "Away" which also prevents people abusing it for short-term pauses, but it is no penalty at all for those using it as intended).
You must come back sometime (within a year; the game won't wait forever. On Day 366 your city disappears.)
 

helya

Community Manager
Elvenar Team
If a vote option was posted I'd vote for it.
As I suggested before, keep it simple. A basic off/on option ("Away," "Return"), 7-day minimum and a 365-day maximum.
You can't "return" before 7 days (if you're back earlier you must wait it out, that's the "penalty" for using "Away" which also prevents people abusing it for short-term pauses, but it is no penalty at all for those using it as intended).
You must come back sometime (within a year; the game won't wait forever. On Day 366 your city disappears.)
Forwarded suggestions then move to a vote by the CMs of all of the markets to see if they will be presented to the devs. This made it through the US community voting phase, but not through this second CM phase. Sometimes I will try again if it looks like there was enough positive response for another try
 

EiLeNeva

Member
I have been playing this game a long time and I understand how all the decay stuff works, so if I have to be away for a while, I expect all that to happen. I got caught up on the chapters back when 14 was new, so each time I reached the end of a chapter, and knew it would be a while until a new one was added and the decaying goods would be needed again, I did not stress over everything decaying while I waited for a new chapter. If this type of thing were around at those times, I could have gamed the system and saved my decaying goods and taken a couple of weeks, or more, off from the game. So while something like an Away feature that freezes your account for a set minimum amount of time is good for people with emergencies, that is the only reason I see it should be used. If you can figure out a way to make this suggestion not abusable, then go for it.

On a totally separate line, I also wonder how the EU privacy laws, that all the servers have to follow, play into why the 2020 suggestion went nowhere because making a system where the players are required to tell Inno why they need to be Away may be giving them more private information than the laws allow.
I have been playing this game a long time and I understand how all the decay stuff works, so if I have to be away for a while, I expect all that to happen. I got caught up on the chapters back when 14 was new, so each time I reached the end of a chapter, and knew it would be a while until a new one was added and the decaying goods would be needed again, I did not stress over everything decaying while I waited for a new chapter. If this type of thing were around at those times, I could have gamed the system and saved my decaying goods and taken a couple of weeks, or more, off from the game. So while something like an Away feature that freezes your account for a set minimum amount of time is good for people with emergencies, that is the only reason I see it should be used. If you can figure out a way to make this suggestion not abusable, then go for it.

On a totally separate line, I also wonder how the EU privacy laws, that all the servers have to follow, play into why the 2020 suggestion went nowhere because making a system where the players are required to tell Inno why they need to be Away may be giving them more private information than the laws allow.

I to totally agree with the use "for emergencies only"... and perhaps providing a "choice button" that loosely defines the emergency issues could sidestep privacy issues.

Imposing time limits is reasonable. I'm sure there must be studies, complete with graphics, that compare "Emergency Time Loss" situations to base the limits on. (OSHA, Insurance Tables, Military Studies, etc.)
Emergency Leave should be just that...Vacations are planned, and part of that planning includes schedules for dealing with with known issues.
I just lost my husband, who was a 100% Service Connected DAV...and as with most interaction with beaurocratic entities, I have had a "Hurry Up and Wait" scenario...that the Pandemic has complicated beyond comprehension. If it weren't for Elvenar, and the diversion it creates...I would be totally losing my ever loving mind!
InnoGame devs could program in those time lines, and catalog a loosely defined choice list for the player to choose from that should not violate privacy laws. It could be accessed in the Forum in an isolated, closed communication...that only notifies the devs. They have the algorhythms...so attrition and decay could be meted out fairly on an established time line.

The Medicare Model was prime in developing "time management" for diagnosis related groups (DRG's) and they are used internationally to "time tech" emergency management departments (FEMA), hospital stays, etc. The Pandemic threw a monkey wrench into their carefully planned world...but prayerfully, this too shall pass.
Vacations are planned, climbing Mount Everest is planned.
This a GAME...not a job...and time off for good behavior isn't awarded, because we do vacations by choice, for our own edification...like Elvenar.
....THE END....
 
Last edited:

ajqtrz

Well-Known Member
And, because I've already commented on this, I would add that it might be in Inno's best interest to have an away button as the pressure to be here, for those who struggle with decay, may burn them out so they never return. I'm thinking of WHY Inno's employee's get vacations....because if you work at something every day (or are penalized a lot for NOT showing up for a few days), you can easily dread when you have to be away. Worrying, on vacation, about if your job will still be there when you return, is not the way to take a vacation. Knowing that you've put your desk away and can take it out when you return without arriving to find somebody took all you pens, pencils, post-it notes, notepaper, stapler and so on, would be nice.

And, if you've been paying attention, and I'm sure you have -- many players do find the need to take a vacation from the game from time to time. So why not do that. I'm more in the favor of a "minimum" time away -- 7 days -- rather than anything less, and the ability to come in after that are reset the away button, than anything shorter (could you imagine being away for 1 day without penalty for returning early? Every night everybody would be "away" just before the decay time, and come back just after. LOL).

AJ
 

Rocce Sqirl

Active Member
I'm sorry, but I must disagree with the latest posts. I see no reason "Away" has to be an emergency.
Parallels are made with taking care of business before a planned vacation -- assuring care for the pets, turning off the HVAC, cancelling appointments, etc. Thing is, decaying items are not things you can "take care of" beforehand. It happens whether you are present or not. The "fix" is to add more in than is taken out (play the game). If you are gone for a week, or more, the decay happens and you can do nothing about it.
An "Away" option would be turning off the heater while you're gone. it would be "taking care of business." You are not adding anything, gaining anything, mounting any advantage, accumulating anything. You are simply avoiding being taxed when you're not in a position to pay the tax, not using the service the tax is for. Your stuff just sits there, unmolested.
To avoid abuse, the 7-day minimum/365-day maximum I suggested earlier helps with that. You could, I suppose, include a feature that it could be used no more than four times a year. As in, whenever you use it you get three more tries within the next 365 days (doesn't matter whether the use is 7 days, 30 days, 300 days -- one "away" for whatever length is one "away."). Use it twice in April, twice in May, you can't use it again until next April. Use it once in April for six months you have three more available, but next April you again have four available (the unused ones do not accumulate).
And of course we are speaking only of the few things that do decay -- sentient goods, Mana and seeds, etc. And maybe expiring buildings. All the other stuff, non-sentient goods, residences and workshops, most culture buildings, coins and tools -- those just sit there forever, not gaining, not producing, because you are not there to collect them.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
To avoid abuse, the 7-day minimum/365-day maximum I suggested earlier helps with that.

With the auto-move/auto-delete/auto-archive system working again, even if Inno did go for this, no way a maximum Away time should be allowed to exceed 30 days. There are still too many inactive or dead cities and we don't need more that are Away for half a year, or something else excessive, taking up valuable spots on the world maps.
 

Rocce Sqirl

Active Member
With the auto-move/auto-delete/auto-archive system working again, even if Inno did go for this, no way a maximum Away time should be allowed to exceed 30 days. There are still too many inactive or dead cities and we don't need more that are Away for half a year, or something else excessive, taking up valuable spots on the world maps.
Philosophically, I absolutely agree with you. Thing is Inno doesn't get rid of those cities anyway. They just sit there. For-freekin'-ever.
There is a player named Gallivant The Great. He was two rows below me when I first signed on in 2017. In all that time from then to now, he NEVER played on his city. He has a score of 571 points. FIVE YEARS LATER HE IS STILL THERE! Why? Because, once, he bought a Magic Workshop. A 365-day rule, for someone who never returns. at least puts him on a clock.
 

ajqtrz

Well-Known Member
@Rocce Sqirl I think Enevhar Aldarion meant the maximum away time you could use would be 30 days, not the maximum time you could be away. The idea of limiting a player to 30 days maximum away (i.e. between visits) with his/her decay being turned off, is different than the maximum time a player can be away before being deleted. Personally I do think 30 days would be about right for a "I'm away, please don't decay things", and a maximum away time of 365 days for those who are then declared to be "never returning," would also be a good thing.

Anyway, that's how I read the post.

AJ
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
@ajqtrz Yep, I was referring to the max a player should able to set their city/account as Away would be 30 days. Longer than that and it can run afoul of the automated system Inno uses for moving/archiving/deleting inactive cities.
 

Rocce Sqirl

Active Member
First of all, there's no One Right Way to achieve the suggestion. My way will work. Enevhar's would work. AJ's would work. We're really just making a variety of suggestions of how to do the same thing, create an "Away" feature.
It's also a fact Inno does not delete some "inactive" cities. They'll delete the looky-loos who peek in, build a couple residences and/or workshops and are never heard from again, but you play into another chapter or, god help us, actually spend five bucks to build a magic whatever, and we are stuck with them forever. It's actually because of that I'm willing to allow a 365-day max. But if Inno created an "Away" with a 30-day max I would not complain. :)
 
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