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    Your Elvenar Team

Battle change

Wesley

New Member
i also noticed this change although i made to the final boss in the spire it was much harder and i lost a lot of troops. also the rewards are almost worthless now. we used to be able to get 2 or 3 Dwarven armories now for the last 2 weeks ...nothing. i have been unable to find them anyplace else. why some people like the spire i have no idea. i do it because it is required by my guild. otherwise i would ignore it
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
I did not notice any difference in the fighting itself, but what did seem off in the crystal tournament this time was the mix of enemy troop types. I know that can now vary from tournament to tournament for the same relic type, but this time the mixes made it a lot harder to get good wins. So I lost more troops than I expected, but not from some kind of bug or other adjustment.
 

DeletedUser26243

Guest
So
The lack of transparency... Inno does not do transparency. Look at when they began random gifting. Nobody had a clue what was going on and Inno's response was that they thought it was better to say nothing because people might get upset that they weren't part of the random test group. Inno is hoping people won't notice.
this random test group what’s was the test for if people liked to get a gift or if worth sending one out? Will we one day get a gift for logging in daily I log in daily but for a small gift it would be lil more better
 

DeletedUser27062

Guest
I would submit that you have misread the beta thread on this. That 5-week old bug is NOT what is being discussed.
When in doubt, assume that the forum mods are wrong and Dony is correct. I've bet on that a few dozen times over the past 5 years and it's never failed.

I suspected as much which is why I asked @Enevhar Aldarion about the perceived contradiction in Dony's comments.
 

sasmitcl16

New Member
Do you think this battle change may also have an effect on the spire? This week is the first time in the past five months that I could not reach the laboratory. I’m usually able to get to level 3 and/or the top with little issue. But, this week I couldn’t seem to get past the second boss in high halls whether it was catering or fighting, it was ridiculously difficult.
Wow how ironic,, for the first time i could fight my way through the lab with much ease... :eek:
I did not have any fight bonus aw's nor fire phoniex or anything that helps in fights (i did build the needless & got the dwarwen armory after this happened).. since im more inclined to catering in spire.. so this certainly was shocking...
 
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sasmitcl16

New Member
BTW, this is also true that the number of aw levels also play a role in determining the toughness of tourney and spire (unless what i read was wrong) so if in case you have built unneccessary aw's which do not help in your play style...the encounters might become harder...
 

Soleil Nightbloom

Well-Known Member
So, I’m happy to report that last week was an anomaly in the spire for me! I am back on track, just beat high halls and waiting to enter the laboratory. I am towards the end of chapter 10 and think the research was the reason for my spire performance. So now I just need to see how this week’s tournament goes :)
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
buff and debuff, is that like wax on, wax off?

*upgrades barracks and tries to remember how to do that crane kick thing against which no can do defense*

** The defense against the crane kick is to stand around discussing it and demonstrating it in various ways (all wrong, of course) until the one who believe he/she has mastered it, becomes do confused that when the time comes to use it, forget how to use it or use it wrongly, at which point you have defeated the un-defeatable. This method is also often used often in debate against unassailable positions.;)

AJ
 

Killy-

Well-Known Member
I can try to explain the change but I have to start with the equation:
english is not my first language + math = don't expect to much

Let's try this on the example human priests (40% defense debuff) against the favorite enemy mistwalker (70% defense against mages).

In the old system every unit had a base defense of 100. That only meant, that you do your normal damage against an enemy with 100 defense. The mistwalker had a defense of 170 (100+70) against mages, what meant the mistwalker takes 70% less dmg (only takes 30% damage). The mage debuff would decrease the 170 by 40% down to 102 (170*0.6=102). With the debuff the mistwalker would now take 2% reduces dmg (98% dmg taken) from mages.

The new system does not has the 100 base defense. Now the math simply is 0.3*1.4=0.42 (30% dmg we would do increased by 40% from the debuff) what gives us 42% of dmg (or still 58% dmg reduction for the mistwalker). In this example the priest with debuff does 42% in the new system instead of 98% in the old system what is less than half and is easy to notice in fights.
 
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Gladiola

Well-Known Member
So ... what I'm getting is that this makes the "match" of troops more important? By match I mean the pentagram, what is strong or weak against something else. Which might be why people noticed it more on fights where there was a difficult mix of troops? Because then there would always be some that did not match well?
 

Deleted User - 849402856

Guest
I agree with @Gladiola.

From the defender's point of view, this change will increase the effectiveness of defense bonuses, because the bonuses will no longer be so easily nullified by defense debuffs. From the attacker's point of view, units with defense debuffs (e.g., human priests or frog princes) will no longer be able to deal so much damage to enemy units with defense bonuses against them. As a result, the pentagram will become more important.
 

samidodamage

Buddy Fan Club member
If I'm understanding it correctly, I think you're right @Kazaaar
As a manual fighter, I look at what that does to the enemy fighters and how to best use it to my advantage. For ex: I've been able to ignore the presence of 1-2 Orc Generals in an enemy lineup that was otherwise good for my frogs. The Orc Generals have a defense buff against heavy range, but they were so slow the frogs could take them out before the Orc Generals could get to them. Now, the amount of damage done by my frogs will not be as great; they may reach my frogs. I may have to pay more attention to them now. I was already more leery of the Swamp Monsters and Knights in the above scenario instead of Orc Generals. 1 of those was a maybe, 2 was definitely not without support troops. Those enemies are sturdier troops and the Knights have a slightly larger strike range (2), so both types could reach my frogs while they were taking out the immediate light melee threat. Though I didn't lose a fight, the amount of damage to the frogs even though the enemies were somewhat weakened was severe. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. The other example I can think of is my cerebus v enemy mages. The mage almost always gets first strike on the cerebus, but now that damage should not be as severe. I depend mostly on Rangers (higher initiative, first strike, long range) for mages now, but this might mean cerebus are more viable. Especially in early tourney rounds or 1st floor of the Spire; I'll have to play around with it.
Could be interesting...
 

Gkyr

Chef
The new system does not has the 100 base defense. Now the math simply is 0.3*1.4=0.42 (30% dmg we would do increased by 40% from the debuff) what gives us 42% of dmg (or still 58% dmg reduction for the mistwalker). In this example the priest with debuff does 42% in the new system instead of 98% in the old system what is less than half and is easy to notice in fights.
So this is the case of Inno allowing everyone to have a Fire Chicken and then globally weakening our attacks.
 

Kawhi is a Raptor

Active Member
as an autobattler i use notation in my head for enemy formations that reads x+y+a/b/c where

x = troops you hard/soft counter
y = troops that are neutral (same)
a/b/c = troops that counter you hard/medium/soft

anyhoo have discovered that formations of 3+1+a/b at like province ~22 and above that used to be fine can now completely ruin your day (unless maybe you're going super ham on buffs?)
 

The Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
as an autobattler i use notation in my head for enemy formations that reads x+y+a/b/c where

x = troops you hard/soft counter
y = troops that are neutral (same)
a/b/c = troops that counter you hard/medium/soft

anyhoo have discovered that formations of 3+1+a/b at like province ~22 and above that used to be fine can now completely ruin your day (unless maybe you're going super ham on buffs?)
Don't forget to factor the terrain nightmare into the equation though...

Had a couple fights today for example in the tourney where I should have easily countered the enemy, for example;
2x Dark Abbot + Thornrose Mage + Myst Walker + Bandit
...so I sent in 5x Xbows and got auto-wiped while barely killing half the enemy line-up! Decided to throw in 1x Barbie just to scout the battle field to see WTF just happened, and low and behold, the terrain was basically a giant barrier of bushes & tree stumps on top of my deployment zone, while the enemy had free reign to run into the giant cull-de-sack on their side and magic me to death, while my Xbows had to circumvent the entire outer ring the battlefield just to get into range! :mad::mad:

Had another fight that was;
1x Thief + 1x Ancient Ork + 1x Hellhound + 2x Archers...
Threw 5x Mortars (god these guys are so useless!) and got auto-wiped yet again... chucked down a Barbie for a peek at the terrain, except there basically wasn't any this time and my Mortars got their faces beaten in by all the enemy light infantry. (...so much for having an "advantage" >.< )
 

Deleted User - 849402856

Guest
It is a very specific bug fix for a very specific problem that only applies to tournament encounters with more than 5 enemy squads

@Eudaemonia I have a question. Does this change in the battle formula apply only to the types of tournament encounters you mentioned? I am asking because I thought the change applied more broadly, including the spire.
 
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