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Battle Difficulty and Squad size upgrade questions

Matthias4433

New Member
Does Squad size upgrade always make tougher fights less challenging ??? and part 2 what determines difficulty, is it chapter? provinces done, areas scouted ???


squad size upgrade part only:- lets say tent 14 is challenging and i get 2 more squad upgrade sizes does that mean it becomes less challenging in the future
 

StarLoad

Well-Known Member
Short answer is SSU just lets you bring more peeps to the fight. Difficulty I cant say I know exactly I am sure some do like @Mykan but chapter, province and its relative type, your round and province number, and the types and number of enemies and terrrain.

Ed
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
All of which means, if you don't fight the provinces but cater, they don't have an effect on anything?

AJ
 

Mykan

Oh Wise One
Does Squad size upgrade always make tougher fights less challenging ??? and part 2 what determines difficulty, is it chapter? provinces done, areas scouted ???
In the majority difficulty is squad size verse squad size. Years and years ago when the system changed the devs explained that fights where the enemy outnumber us 2:1 are designed to be impossible. On the world map the difficulty rating is mostly based on what this ratio is. There are other things that will impact it like the star rating of your troops and the enemy but this is to a lesser degree then squad size. Troop combination also plays into difficulty, most people are excited to see 5 HM troops as the enemy but mix those HM with some mist walkers and that fight gets much harder.

A person then has the ability to boost their troops, this is what allows people (average person at least) to fight past the 2:1 ratio. Boosts with temp buildings, pets or wonders.

With tournaments and spire people frequently refer to difficulty but unlike the above the difficulty they are referring to is troop losses and the ability to replace them. If you can make 50 squads a day and only lose 1 squad (true squad size) a fight nothing will feel "hard" and you will fight as much as you can. However if you can only make 10 squads a day and a battle will cost you 50 squads even if you in then it will feel very hard. From memory spire difficulty in terms of squad size ratio never gets too bad, but the cost in loss of troops get very high and creates the barrier for people in the higher levels.

squad size upgrade part only:- lets say tent 14 is challenging and i get 2 more squad upgrade sizes does that mean it becomes less challenging in the future
Tent 14 sounds like the tournament so more squad upgrades won't help here. Unlike the spire the tournament ratios get harder as the provinces and the stars increase. That ratio is fixed but the amount of actual squads you bring to a fight will increase based on specific criteria. The more squads you have to bring the more losses and thus the harder to replace those for the next week. I don't recall the formula but someone can point you to the work by minmax. Brief version is wonder levels, compulsory techs and expansions all increase your tournament squad size. So those 2 SSU if compulsory will increase the number of troops you must bring, in the next tournament (its fixed for the week once tourny starts). If those are optional techs though, they have nil impact on tourny, but do help with the world map provinces.

This is why a lot of long time players complained and/or quit when the changes came in. Depending on your town you might be bringing 10 x your world map SS to a tourny or 100x (rather hard to rebuild losses of that scale). It is also the reason a lot of players now delete wonders, go very slow through chapters and even park towns while they figure out whether that next decision will be like a land mine in their spire/tournament progression or help.

Any person only ever planning to do 10 provinces in tourney can basically ignore all this and do anything they want. Those going up to 20 provinces don't need to be too stressed either, but the further you want to go and get rewards the higher that price gets.
 
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Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
For some reason, fights seem a great deal harder this week than last. I was only on the second star in tourney this morning, around the 20th province, but no matter what I did, it didn't work when it should. I tried 4 blossoms and a frog (all 3*) to fight 4 HM and a L (LM or LR; can't remember which) .... lost. Then I tried 4 archers and a orc strategist. Lost. No, I didn't have any 5 days out, but I did have the fire fed and I have a few military wonders that should have helped too. It just seems to me that a fight like that I would have won hands down before. I also noticed a much huger loss in troops in the fights I won. I don't understand the difference between this tourney and previous ones. Anyone else noticed it?
 

StarLoad

Well-Known Member
Yes, I have already done 35 prov to 6 rounds and I had the same issue at the same location prov 20 or 21 round 2 or 3 and it took me 3 tries to win and lost a lot of troops. UUU< MMM< ELR< DA all active but I had forgot to feed the fire chicken before I started, after that No lost battles but some I did lose a good number of stacks.
I started the 35-40 prov and have completed 2 rounds so far without issue and the same boosters are still active, and yes the Fire Chicken is also active.

Ed
 

StarLoad

Well-Known Member
ok I don't get it, I noticed that the Crystal Tourney was harder than Scrolls was, and this one, Silk seems to be in between them but I am only going on anecdotal information. Usually, Scrolls is the hardest of T2 tourneys.
 

Raccon

Well-Known Member
I don't remember enemy lineup in 2nd star provinces 20, 21, or 22 but I remember at 20 and 21 I lost around 2 squads to win, the enemy in 22nd province was a mix bag of criss cross enemy types so I had to cater.
I tried 4 blossoms and a frog (all 3*) to fight 4 HM and a L (LM or LR; can't remember which) .... lost. Then I tried 4 archers and a orc strategist. Lost.
For 4 HMs and a LM or LE in provinces 20 or 21, I used 5 crossbowmen, usually I win by losing as little as 2 squads without ELR boost.
In upper provincecs I noticed that my losses are much higher when I go 4 mage or LR + one Orc Strat or mortar (frog for elves) as oppose to all five LRs. 5 long range Mages worked for me in this turnament against 4 HM or HR + 1 LM except a dog. (I never put mages where there is even one enemy dog or LR present)
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
I don't remember enemy lineup in 2nd star provinces 20, 21, or 22 but I remember at 20 and 21 I lost around 2 squads to win, the enemy in 22nd province was a mix bag of criss cross enemy types so I had to cater.

For 4 HMs and a LM or LE in provinces 20 or 21, I used 5 crossbowmen, usually I win by losing as little as 2 squads without ELR boost.
In upper provincecs I noticed that my losses are much higher when I go 4 mage or LR + one Orc Strat or mortar (frog for elves) as oppose to all five LRs. 5 long range Mages worked for me in this turnament against 4 HM or HR + 1 LM except a dog. (I never put mages where there is even one enemy dog or LR present)
I think humans have a different outcome than elves on fights, but I will try it next time and see what happens. Thanks.
 

Raccon

Well-Known Member
Yes, I forgot that. 3* Human crossbowmen would debuff the enemy by %20 for 3 rounds, so my LR would recieve a weaker strike back = better chance to survive. 3* Mortars, unlike 3* frogs, also have the advantage of debuffing enemy by %20 for 3 rounds
3* Human Mages are almost on par with 3* Blossoms though.
 

Gkyr

Chef
Just finished round 2 of provs 20, 21, 22.

21: one LM (hellhound), one LR, three HM. No one has mentioned terrain, which is all-important. In this field the enemy movement is constricted by a large parallel hedge, open at both ends, trapping LM and LR in the middle. I agree with Darielle in principle but this arrangement allows for three frogs with an Archer top and bottom. All were 3*. I didn't lose any combatants.

22: three LM (1 hellhound, ancient orc and thief), one HR, one HM. Terrain was open with 3 islands. Hellhound was position1 so I centered 3 golems in pos. 1,2,3 with an Archer at 4 and a banshee at 5. I could have used a 3:2 golem:buddy combo but chose this for the fewer losses. Even so, it was a win but 1-1/2 squads of Golems were chewed up by the opposing Knight. Also lost 1/2 squad of Archers but Banshee was untouched.

23: two LM, one LR, one Priest, one HM. Each side had a 1/2 length parallel hedge constricting their 1,3 and 5 pos. and my 1 and 3 pos. I chose three HR at 1,2,3 and Archers at 4 and 5 so they could retreat into the corners to come out in the later battle. I chose an Orc Strat at pos. 1 to counter their LR and flanked with Golems. It was a win with 1-1/2 squads of Golems lost and a few OS.
 

StarLoad

Well-Known Member
21: one LM (hellhound), one LR, three HM. No one has mentioned terrain, which is all-important. In this field the enemy movement is constricted by a large parallel hedge, open at both ends, trapping LM and LR in the middle. I agree with Darielle in principle but this arrangement allows for three frogs with an Archer top and bottom. All were 3*. I didn't lose any combatants.
You are correct on the terrain issue, I think I had the same terrain pattern but not in prov 20, in my prov 20, it was open in the middle 2 wide and hashes to the side with 1 wide opening at the ends. unfortunately, I don't remember the troops as I did mine Tuesday morning.

Ed
 

Raccon

Well-Known Member
Since I auto fight on mobile I wouldn't be able to factor in the terrain.
I wish I had time for manual fighting but, it takes a long time to finish and I'm not always at home by my desktop.
When I manual fought, neither I could do more than 12-15 provinces nor topping the Spire as often.
However I strongly suggest new players learn to manual fight to get the grip of different units strenghts and weaknesses and their proper deployment according to enemy lineup. I wouldn't do as good in auto fight if I hadn't learned the manual fight and each unit type's proper use.
 
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