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    Your Elvenar Team

Battle:Tactics, Tips & Tricks

Which army would you choose if entering an elimination style tourney? (equal size/all upgraded)


  • Total voters
    26

DeletedUser594

Guest
How? You have an advantage in understanding playing 2 races.
Name Attack HP Special Abilities Movement Range/Attack Range
Priest II 14 42 +40% Damage to the target for this round 1/14
  • Sorceress II 14 63 -80% Target's attack this round 4/4
Just for clarity sake ,and so we have the same starting point, let me share the definition that best conveys my intended meaning for
tactical advantage:
2. characterized by skillful tactics or adroit maneuvering or procedure:tactical movements. 3. of or relating to a maneuver or plan of action designed as an expedient toward gaining a desired end or temporary advantage.

The tactical advantages for humans vs elves (imo) would include:
---First strike--- Humans can choose to strike first with X-Bow or Cerberus
Elves limited to Archer
Cereberus -
-can often times kill archer or canoneer 1 hit in first round
- can cause significant damage to steinling, golums, necromancer/sorceress
-subsequently can be withdrawn from action for use later as attack or as a blockade<--- great as a late blocker when attempting a moving blockade of 1 or two paladin covering 1-2 archers

Paladin vs Treant
Treants are stronger but the difference is reduced by Paladins 40% bonus against heavy
Paladins can strike without risk of strike back
Paladins can reposition/retreat while still striking
Paladins can strike while protected by terrain or blocking troops//can attack enemy protected by same
Add a priest to the mix and the paladins advantage multiplies.

Priest (Pr.)attack--vs --Sorceress (Sor.)---since you put them together in your question I'll try and make a comparison but don't feel like the two units should even be compared side by side based on individual attributes because the sorceress acts more like a regular fighting unit despite the spell
while using the Priest changes the battle strategy overall to a greater degree imo
But to answer re side x side
Priest attack covers entire battlefield-vs- (4move n 4attack) for Sorceress
Pr. =low (lowest?) priority for enemy troops attack- factors into troop placement
Damage +40% damage caused to 1 enemy by each subsequent attack for one round.

1 Sorceress. weakens 1 enemy units next attack by -80%
1 Priest increases 1 enemies vulnerability to damage for up to 4 attacks that round

The human army has more tactical options and functions better as a unit imo . The addition of the priests changes how you attack bcs you want as many hits as possible on the cursed individual that round. Positioning becomes key to maximize attack while reducing vulnerability by blocking, distancing, drawing off enemy troops etc.

Elven armies just don't feel as integrated to me. It's like a collection of strong individuals vs a team--kind of like watching pro basketball vs college ball.
I haven't fully answered your question- and again-- I am no expert--this is just my take on what I've experienced thus far
 

DeletedUser

Guest
It's like a collection of strong individuals vs a team--kind of like watching pro basketball vs college ball.
Love your analogy, as I am a huge NBA fan, and you pointed out why I have felt limited by my elven army, while not fully realizing the cause. Often when I fight, I only use two or three different squads depending on the enemy, and the thought of being able to utilize all units is attractive. Alas, my brain seems to be stuck on elven tactics after playing that way for so long, and I'm still figuring out the human battle style in my other city, where I have only now unlocked the Paladins. Must devote more time to my human city.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
@varron Thank you for a well thought out tactical comparison :) I agree with almost all you said but would like to add some comments if I may.
1 Priest increases 1 enemies vulnerability to damage for up to 4 attacks that round
One priest will actually increase one enemies vulnerability to damage for up to FIVE attacks... The priest himself being the 5th. The priest's curse is untill the end of the next round which ends after the priest attacks again. But this is only possible if the other units you field are axe barbarians and/or crosbowmen.
Add a priest to the mix and the paladins advantage multiplies
Unfortunately the paladins and cerberus buffs replaces the priest's curse when they attack so the advantage is not as big as it should be. This is the same for the sorceress curse being replaced by a treant or golem hit. I am of the opinion that they should stack instead of replace, but that is an idea for another thread :)
 

DeletedUser1122

Guest
Does anyone else use Tables and calculators from Bune - Battle calculator (an accurate comparison of your army's strength and the enemy's forces)? Outstanding resource. It has help me a lot with my troop mixes. It really helps to let you know it is time to negotiate :)
Unfortunately the paladins and cerberus buffs replaces the priest's curse when they attack so the advantage is not as big as it should be.
That is a news flash thank-you so much.
 

DeletedUser1122

Guest
Thank-you varron for starting the thread. I'm in need of Tactics & Strategy, Tips & Tricks. Prayer hasn't work.
Paladin vs Treant
1. Treants are stronger but the difference is reduced by Paladins 40% bonus against heavy
2.1 Paladins can strike without risk of strike back
2.2 Paladins can reposition/retreat while still striking
3. Paladins can strike while protected by terrain or blocking troops//can attack enemy protected by same
Add a priest to the mix and the paladins advantage multiplies.


Name.......Attack.......HP......Class......Special Ability
Paladin II.....37..........389.....HM........-20% Target's attack this round
Treant II.....128.........504.....HM........-20% Target's attack this round

1. Treant Attack 346 % more; Hit Points 30% more. With the attack bonus of 40% against HM the Paladin attack increases to 52.
2.1 and 2.2 You avoid strike back by positioning but you never get out of harm's way.
3. This does not occur that often. Wish it did.

In Elixir provinces you face Treant, Golem (80% bonus against HM) and Necromancer with the special ability +50% Damage to the target for this round. I have found no effective way to fight the group and the "Tables and calculators from Bune" - Battle calculator (an accurate comparison of your army's strength and the enemy's forces) shows 100 % losses in 3 rounds.
My best tactics are:
Have 4 Armories
When scouting I scout alike provinces as much as I can. The more I fight the same province type the better I get. They even repeat some fights for you.
Battle calculator shows when to negotiate although every now and again the terrain will let you win a lopsided battle
Move/not move to get first strike.
Don't mix initiatives unless the terrain permits protection of high initiative units.
Try to attack only one unit at a time unit the unit is eliminated
Surrender and replace your units to align your units to suit the terrain
Never use auto fight
My position is 1,100 provinces completed and an Elixir boost of 381%
 
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DeletedUser594

Guest
Unfortunately the paladins and cerberus buffs replaces the priest's curse when they attack so the advantage is not as big as it should be.
Thanks for the info. That is a bummer. Stacking would be great but if not then the Mage power should trump the others.

I haven't used the bune sheets for battle but have used it as a resource for most other game aspects.
In Elixir provinces you face ...
Elixer is the hardest territory for humans. At even strength I take 4 or 5 provinces. Golums just make it a nightmare.

Some of the tactics you listed I'm not sure I understand:
-Don't mix initiatives... does that mean fight using an entire army with equal initiative? I know I'm reading that wrong...could you explain.
-Attack one unit at a time- I believe that tactic emerged bcs attack strength stayed the same whether there was a full squad of 30 or just 1 troop left. I believe they changed it so there is a drop off in attack strength once 50% (?) of the squad is eliminated (not sure on that number though need verification).
-Why not surrender and replace in silk provinces? There is often times a terrain advantage.

One of my favorite tactics is really a simple one. If a unit is nearly dead and can't survive a retaliation blow I check for a good placement to either block or deflect an enemy. b5.png
Instead of attacking and having the Knight kill my cerberus, I just run the cerb right up to him, block him in and end turn, opening up safe ground for the archer. The knight will have to waste a full turn clearing the cerberus out since I didn't attack and die during retaliation.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I believe they changed it so there is a drop off in attack strength once 50% (?) of the squad is eliminated (not sure on that number though need verification).
The damage calculation formula:
10% base damage + 90% time remaining squad size

For example... A squad of crossbowmen has been reduced to 80 (starting size was 120).
To calculate their damage - 80 out of 120 is 66.6% of the total squad. 66.6% of the 90% of the damage is 60% (rounded from 59.92) damage.

The final calculation based on the formula is:
10% + 60% = 70% of the total possible damage (ranged between minimum and maximum).

With above formula any squad (player or AI) below 10% of the starting squad size hits above its weight.
My position is 1,100 provinces completed
I am assuming you made a typo and mean 1100 relics. That would put at roughly 137 provinces or less. Between your 220th and 245th province you will hit the proverbial brick wall... depending on your pattern of scouting. Your scouting cost will be more than the coins your main hall(max level) can currently hold. Once the new chapter is released it would change of course :)
n Elixir provinces you face Treant, Golem (80% bonus against HM) and Necromancer with the special ability +50% Damage to the target for this round. I have found no effective way to fight the group
A lot of players discounts the first two units after unlocking paladins and priests. A viable tactic would be 3 squads axe barbarians and 2 squads crossbowmen. 1 squad priests or cerberus in place of a squad of axe barbarians depending on terrain and enemy squads. Position the axemen and cerberus so that the necro and golem must come in range. then use all units to take them out while ignoring the treants. You will most likely lose all the axe and cerberus squads to the treants but will be left with 1 or two squads of crossbow to slowly kill the treant while using a terrain obstacle to stay out the way. The storm barbarian is AWESOME in those situations.

Another tip is to always consider the replacement speed when calculating possible losses. Two squads of axe barbariansII trains faster than one squad of paladinsII for example.
 

DeletedUser1122

Guest
Thanks for the info. That is a bummer. Stacking would be great but if not then the Mage power should trump the others.

I haven't used the bune sheets for battle but have used it as a resource for most other game aspects.

Elixer is the hardest territory for humans. At even strength I take 4 or 5 provinces. Golums just make it a nightmare.

Some of the tactics you listed I'm not sure I understand:
-Don't mix initiatives... does that mean fight using an entire army with equal initiative? I know I'm reading that wrong...could you explain.
-Attack one unit at a time- I believe that tactic emerged bcs attack strength stayed the same whether there was a full squad of 30 or just 1 troop left. I believe they changed it so there is a drop off in attack strength once 50% (?) of the squad is eliminated (not sure on that number though need verification).
-Why not surrender and replace in silk provinces? There is often times a terrain advantage.

One of my favorite tactics is really a simple one. If a unit is nearly dead and can't survive a retaliation blow I check for a good placement to either block or deflect an enemy.View attachment 293
Instead of attacking and having the Knight kill my cerberus, I just run the cerb right up to him, block him in and end turn, opening up safe ground for the archer. The knight will have to waste a full turn clearing the cerberus out since I didn't attack and die during retaliation.
The high initiatives: Axe barbarian, Crossbowman and Cerberus are the first to be attacked. If mixed with the low initiatives and facing
Cerberus, Archer, Necromancer or Cannoneer they will eliminate first. Of course the Cerberus is born to take the Canoneer and is usually eliminated in the process. If they can be protected the crossbow and Paladin are an effect combination.
Silk provinces have a slightly different intro. Something to the effect that if I win I get your some of your troops. I belive when you start and surrender you lose some or all of your troops. Sorry I don't have a silk open right now to double check.
 

DeletedUser1122

Guest
The damage calculation formula:
10% base damage + 90% time remaining squad size

For example... A squad of crossbowmen has been reduced to 80 (starting size was 120).
To calculate their damage - 80 out of 120 is 66.6% of the total squad. 66.6% of the 90% of the damage is 60% (rounded from 59.92) damage.

The final calculation based on the formula is:
10% + 60% = 70% of the total possible damage (ranged between minimum and maximum).

With above formula any squad (player or AI) below 10% of the starting squad size hits above its weight.
I am assuming you made a typo and mean 1100 relics. That would put at roughly 137 provinces or less. Between your 220th and 245th province you will hit the proverbial brick wall... depending on your pattern of scouting. Your scouting cost will be more than the coins your main hall(max level) can currently hold. Once the new chapter is released it would change of course :)
A lot of players discounts the first two units after unlocking paladins and priests. A viable tactic would be 3 squads axe barbarians and 2 squads crossbowmen. 1 squad priests or cerberus in place of a squad of axe barbarians depending on terrain and enemy squads. Position the axemen and cerberus so that the necro and golem must come in range. then use all units to take them out while ignoring the treants. You will most likely lose all the axe and cerberus squads to the treants but will be left with 1 or two squads of crossbow to slowly kill the treant while using a terrain obstacle to stay out the way. The storm barbarian is AWESOME in those situations.

Another tip is to always consider the replacement speed when calculating possible losses. Two squads of axe barbariansII trains faster than one squad of paladinsII for example.
Thank-you for the formula. It's not as bad as it was but it still is not good.
Not a typo more like a brain burp. You are correct it is 1,100 relics.
I will try the axe/bow combo on some of the easier relics again. The Axe just can't take a hit.
 

DeletedUser1122

Guest
depending on your pattern of scouting
I was scouting based on cost or by accident (darn map). Now I am attempting to scout only for boosted relics/provinces. What difference does it make?
Once the new chapter is released it would change of course
How come all the best answers involve a crystal ball. Why would it change?
I have just tried the Paladin/crossbow combo on a easy province (plank). Forgot that Swamps would go around/through a group of Paladin and wipe out a full squad with one swipe.
The storm barbarian is AWESOME in those situations.
Wiki indicates they are best against light melee units. They are good against Treant/Golem combo's too? (please say yes :))
Well back to the drawing board. I'm tired of losing 2/3 of my units in a encounter
Thank-you Avatrix and varron. I will be back
 

DeletedUser594

Guest
It changes with a new chapter because the first tech unlocked is advanced scouts which lowers costs, and there would be a main hall upgrade to carry more coin.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
How come all the best answers involve a crystal ball. Why would it change?
when the new chapter gets released we will get a new advanced scouting research. Thus reducing the cost of scouting. And possible new levels for the main hall which would increase coin capasity.
Wiki indicates they are best against light melee units. They are good against Treant/Golem combo's too
They have an advantage against light melee, but I was refering to a elixir province with necros, golems and treant mix. The are not good vs treants. but can take out necros and golem before the treants take them out. Then the crossbows can take care of the treants.
Treant/Golem combo's
For this I would use 1 squad priests and 4 squads crossbows or 3 crosbows and one axe barbarian depending if it is golem II. Take out golems first then treants.
Paladin/crossbow combo
When using that combo the role of the paladin changes to defensive. Placement of them should be made to prevent enemy reaching the crossbows rather than where they can attack from.
 

DeletedUser1122

Guest
Thank-you Avatrix. I am looking forward to trying these army configurations. If sucessful I will be sharing with our fellowship. There is a lot of info for the elves in the forums but so little for humans.
It changes with a new chapter because the first tech unlocked is advanced scouts which lowers costs, and there would be a main hall upgrade to carry more coin
Did this happen with Chapter 6?
I have lined up 5 Dust provinces so I hope to provide a summary of what works for Dust.
 

DeletedUser594

Guest
Thank-you Avatrix. I am looking forward to trying these army configurations. If sucessful I will be sharing with our fellowship. There is a lot of info for the elves in the forums but so little for humans.

Did this happen with Chapter 6?
I have lined up 5 Dust provinces so I hope to provide a summary of what works for Dust.
Yes. If you look out ahead on the research tree you can see every chapter starts with a scout upgrade. Upgraded scouts are faster and cost less to send out.
 

DeletedUser1122

Guest
Silk Provinces Avatar states when you go to fight: "So, if I lose, you get the Relic. If I win, your troops will be Mine. Ok, I’m in". That is why surrending reads "DEFEAT"
 

DeletedUser594

Guest
You know I had to go and test that one out. I went to a silk territory on Winyandor and placed 204 Axe Barbarians in a fight on a silk territory.
Before placing 8939 and after surrender 8939. The count is the same in my battle window as it does in my city.

The enemy Avatar states "I have to admit, the large spider's webs hanging from the trees are a bit intimidating. However, this is the only place where you can find these amazing Silk Relics. Trust me: You want them, you need them. And I sell them to you."

I will try it again if I can find one that states what you mentioned.
 

DeletedUser1122

Guest
ok, I got stupid quest lose 33 priests. Get back to you:)
 
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DeletedUser1122

Guest
Yep, satisfied quest, no additional loses. Silk is just the same as all the other provinces. Could of swore....
 

DeletedUser

Guest
Reading this thread and re-reading this thread, and learning a ton. Thanks to all who contribute here. Definitely finding at my small size right now on Khel, the Human troops are quite effective, especially my puppies. We shall see how it goes ans I scout further out. Still stuck and unable to win with only SD I, Arch II and Treant I in my Elven city an Aren. So, just stockpiling Goods for research, beginning to produce Tier 3 Goods and plugging away until I get more expansions and better troops and squad sizes. I'll keep checking here to see what to try and see what I can learn. Many thanks guys. :)
 
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