"Best" Military AW

[SoggyShorts]

Excellent post @TedGrau , and welcome back to the forums

 

[Risen Malchiah]

The final wonder in this category is the Flying Academy. By the time you can build it the mercenary camp troops are only slightly useful, and mages are often ineffective in combat.

Early on, I was looking forward to the Flying Academy, but over time I quickly realized one giant flaw:

It produces barracks-style mage units, but improves the speed of the merc camp. For elven cities where Blossom Mages work far better than Sorceress, those free units don't help much. For human cities where the Priests are quite powerful, there isn't much need for the Merc Camp.

Unless perhaps one thing, in case anyone has tried this. By S&D, the Blossom Mage level 2 is almost as powerful as the Priest, but has a higher initiative, which means the Blossom Mage often goes before enemy mage units. In a steel tournament, my elven city often did better than my human city precisely because my blossom mages were able to go before the enemy, whereas my priests were always taking the first hits that my blossom mages could avoid. For the first time, it has me contemplating a merc camp for my human city.

 

[DeletedUser5521]

The best military wonder is Martial Monastery/Sanctuary. Both of its benefits are important to a military build. While the culture benefit is not great earlier in the game, by the woodelves chapter it is almost higher per square than even the best event buildings. Culture is critical for military because all military building use more culture than population and often 2:1 culture : population. The health benefit is a little obvious, but what is not obvious is that the autofight AI will regularly walk your high initiative troops forward into range of lower initiative opponents giving your enemies the first hit. The health bonus ameliorates that bad choice. I suggest building the Monastery and leveling it to 6 as soon as possible and raising to maximum as opportunities present.

Military productions requires 2 things: supplies and time. Supplies can readily be gained from workshops and PoP enchantments can easily enhance that. That makes time the critical component in production. There are only 24 hours in a day and not too much you can do to change that. Instants and diamonds are better spent elsewhere. This means that wonders which improve the speed and duration of production are the second class of important wonders. Needles is the first of that category and given that it also enhances damage for a unit that dominates one tournament and supports in 4 others, the needles is the most important of this category. It should be upgraded to 6 rapidly and then considered for further upgrades later when both Bulwark and Shrewdy are L6. Next in this category are Shrewdy and Bulwark. Both should be built up equally as you have spare KP and whenever your training queue does not last for continuous 24 hour production. The free units provided by these may be enough to allow you to not have to train any of those unit types, or can free up time to produce Training Grounds and Mercenary Camp units for those weeks that would use the LM and LR unit types heavily. Keep in mind that the training grounds is sometimes faster, but usually slower than the barracks with needles. The final wonder in this category is the Flying Academy. By the time you can build it the mercenary camp troops are only slightly useful, and mages are often ineffective in combat. This wonder can be leveled slower and it is often better to focus on raising the monastery towards L16 until more of the camp units get promotions. If your FA is below L6 once the monastery has gotten to L16 then raise the academy.

The other wonders that increase troop damage are all useful and should be built if you have the space. That space can often be found by demolishing factories (I have had a 1-1-1 build since chapter 5 and keep stockpiling more goods), workshops (I reduced mine from 10 L15 to 5 max level during orcs), and the residences that were used to provide population to those buildings. However leveling those wonders should not be a high priority as the L1 bonus is the biggest single step.

Wonders that provide supplies: Prosperity Towers, Endless Excavation, and Tome of Secrets can all be useful and have ranked usefulness in about that order.

If you happen to have a city on Elcy you can check mine out. Last tournament I did nearly 3000 points and only catered 4 or 5 encounters because of silly loses. I could do that because I started the tournament with 80 squads of golems. I got 160 KP during the tournament and since my fellowship was in recovery mode only 15 more from the chests. In the last hours of the tournament, I could see I would not get any more KP and we were not close to gaining another chest so I stopped for that week and reset my training queue for heavy melee, which is often the go to choice in crystal. I expect to start the crystal tournament tomorrow with 90 squads of treants and that was nearly all trained starting from Saturday at 11am.

You're good. Really good

 

[Mykan]

Once you hit the point where 2 max armories doesn't keep your barracks running 24/7 both the SSS and Bulwark are better than getting a third armory even if you keep them at level 1.

With the added bonus of free troops

The key difference is Shrooms is based on your total armory levels while Bulwark is based on your squad size. If you skip optional squad size upgrades as I do (to keep the tournaments easier) then that suppresses the output of the Bulwark.

Just remember both give free units and at some point if you focus on the shrewdy shrooms over bulwark the bulwark will eventually give better training increase/KP. So I would build both and definitely keep an eye out on when you are best to improve the bulwark for the KP investment.

Early on, I was looking forward to the Flying Academy, but over time I quickly realized one giant flaw:

It produces barracks-style mage units, but improves the speed of the merc camp. For elven cities where Blossom Mages work far better than Sorceress, those free units don't help much. For human cities where the Priests are quite powerful, there isn't much need for the Merc Camp.

I have a human city and I can't get this wonder high enough currently. The boost to speed and free units is just nice. The blossom mage is badly under estimated, she is a powerful unit and definitely has her place. So many times I would take her into battle over the blossom mage. I build a lot of merc camp units for every tournament that I can. I am completely skipping training grounds units currently, not due to quality but speed. It takes me double the time for 1 slot in the training grounds to that of barracks/merc camp so I build them. The new elemental wonder will be my friend as soon as I can get my hands on it, and boosting LM troops will just be a bonus.

I agree with @TedGrau and have a similar approach. I level the monastery/sanctuary for health to make all units last longer, as Ted mentioned the culture bonus is quite crazy as it levels. I then focus on speed wonders and troop production wonders, I don't specifically level wonders boosting attack unless they are a secondary bonus to something I need in my town, specifically needles of tempest and the new elemental wonder.

My main challenge currently is balancing the rewards for the KP investment and deciding which wonder gives me the best benefit for my KP buck. So while my monastery gets the primary focus I will hold it for a bit to level the next priority wonders on occasion.

 

[Risen Malchiah]

I went hunting to find out what AW you were talking about. Victory Springs? Seems to boost light melee damage and increase speed at the training grounds. That would certainly make the training grounds more useful. No matter how much I may want them to, puppies simply don't show up at my front door on their own.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Thanks again for all the contributions to this thread. This is exactly what I had hoped for: forum participants that I respect and listen to giving thoughtful conversation.
One question I have for others focuses on balance. By devoting 5+ expansions to military AWs, do you find that you still have enough guest race space to proceed at a reasonable pace? Obviously if you're getting 2K+ tourney points each week, and in an active FS, you're going to be techlocked, because you're getting 50-100KP extra each week. But do you find that you still can moderately progress through later chapters?

@TedGrau, hearing your factory/workshop layout was very helpful. I might make any account on your server just to check out/marvel at the layout.

 

[Ashrem]

By devoting 5+ expansions to military AWs, do you find that you still have enough guest race space to proceed at a reasonable pace?

That's a tough one. Like everything else in the game, it depends on land. How much you've got from scouting, and whether you've bought expansions (and how many)

My primary city I've bought nine, and have 10 AWs. In another I've bought none and have one.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

That's a tough one. Like everything else in the game, it depends on land. How much you've got from scouting, and whether you've bought expansions (and how many)

My primary city I've bought nine, and have 10 AWs. In another I've bought none and have one.

That's the conundrum I'm in. I've well over-scouted (270+ provinces cleared in WoodElves), but I've only bought 1 expansion. Whereas some of my FS members have every province filled in (despite not being in Halflings), and they have almost every decent AW. But I can't imagine shelling out for expansions after the price changes (but I completely understand why people bought a ton back when the expansions were cheaper).

 

[Ashrem]

(but I completely understand why people bought a ton back when the expansions were cheaper).

I wish. I bought mine on the sliding scale, about a year ago, when I was still willing to put around $50/month into the game. I generally won't buy anything that isn't permanent*, so it was pretty much limited to expansions and upgrades ot the BH, MA, and Main hall and a few key wonders (Until they knifed me in the back with the Crystal Lighthouse changes).

* As permanent as anything is in this game.

 

[qaccy]

I wish. I bought mine on the sliding scale, about a year ago, when I was still willing to put around $50/month into the game. I generally won't buy anything that isn't permanent*, so it was pretty much limited to expansions and upgrades ot the BH, MA, and Main hall and a few key wonders (Until they knifed me in the back with the Crystal Lighthouse changes).

* As permanent as anything is in this game.

Space shouldn't be a problem as long as you avoid falling into the mental traps of 'I have to fill up every single square in my city at all times' and 'if I tear down any buildings I'll lose ranking points!' Starting with Orcs, I've always kept the guest race space open (and slowly growing) in my city even after I've torn the buildings for them down. I used to put temporary culture buildings in that space, but now I just keep it open since I don't need those either. Level 1 buildings usually end up going in there for events as I wait for Elementals to come out.

Also, to go back to what @TedGrau said about the Flying Academy...that one depends a bit on whether you're playing a human or an elf city, but I think it's useful to any battler. Priests are excellent units that I love getting for free; sorceresses less so. But both races can make use of the mercenary camp bonus. As @Mykan said, blossom mages are somewhat underrated. They have fairly obvious benefit to elves as a long-range mage option, but they also have powerful defense against heavy melee, which is something that priests are lacking, and they're the hardest-hitting mage unit. Rangers are also superb units. Fastest light range unit we have with the strongest mage bonuses, and the only light range able to retaliate against attacks which is useful against almost everything. Additionally, elves really like (or should like) Vallorian Guards. If I had a choice between more health (treants) or more attack range (VGs), I'll pick the attack range every time. More health doesn't let you attack through barriers!

 

[DeletedUser7370]

@TedGrau, hearing your factory/workshop layout was very helpful. I might make any account on your server just to check out/marvel at the layout.

It is a little cramped right now since I am borrowing space from my woodelf settlement for the stupid redbeard event. That is slowing my woodelf progression, but since I have all of these wonders to build up I don't mind.

I am not over scouted. In fact I only have 199 completed provinces. That leaves 21 to do before I can start S&D. I have 18 of those scouted. And only a few have been partially completed. It is a strategy I came up with when I was in chapter 6. I had spent a week or 2 before starting dwarves province locked as my military built up too slowly. I had also learned that events often have some scout and some conquer quests. Which makes it more efficient to reserve some provinces for each until the end of the chapter, and then rush them all dumping the points straight into the next advanced scout. The drawback to this strategy is that I might not have as many province expansions to work with...the upside is in events and the majority of the conquering is done after mandatory SS tech reduce my costs. Another upside is that I can grab a province expansion on short notice if I need extra space for an event.

The woodelf chapter is the first one since chapter 5 that has me packing the whole city in tight. I could free up some of my culture space if I want to, because I currently have 2000 some points above the requirement for 70% bonus. And a planned transition is to dump my Mountain Halls to make room for the higher levels of the Mercenary Camp which perfectly makes the reserve area for the Flying Academy.

I think the conquering at the end of the woodelf chapter will give me 2 expansion with a 3rd province expansion available shortly into S&D. I am thinking I will probably have enough room but it might be tight. The easy solution for me would be to get rid of junk and upgrade my residences, 5 squirrel squares would free a fair bit of space. I could also reduce my number of residences as I currently have 2000 extra people. I have chosen to not upgrade residences or armories fully and have been saving those upgrades for event quests, but if space becomes an issue I will do the upgrades and sales. I even have held onto some fairy residences (9) because they worked nicely space wise and I wasn't ready to part with them...perhaps S&D space requirements will change that.

In any case I tend to plan out the finished layout for the next chapter at least 1 week before getting there. I have some time yet.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Space shouldn't be a problem as long as you avoid falling into the mental traps of 'I have to fill up every single square in my city at all times' and 'if I tear down any buildings I'll lose ranking points!' Starting with Orcs, I've always kept the guest race space open (and slowly growing) in my city even after I've torn the buildings for them down. I used to put temporary culture buildings in that space, but now I just keep it open since I don't need those either. Level 1 buildings usually end up going in there for events as I wait for Elementals to come out.

I was fortunate that I finished Orcs right as the Winter Event started, so I had 10+ expansions to devote to level 1 buildings. But I am ruthless about tearing down buildings, especially old event buildings. Right now I've found a decent equilibrium (though I may have too much space devoted to mana). I'm running 4/3/3, with 9 workshops, and 2 armories, and don't have a ton of extra space, though.

I think once Woodelves ends, I'll have room for a Martial Monastery, and I think I'll be able to delete some residences (since S&D residences seem much more efficient). I also think as the natural tech-locking that occurs in later chapters lets me improve my GA and Mtn Halls, I'll free up some space that way.

 

[Mykan]

One question I have for others focuses on balance. By devoting 5+ expansions to military AWs, do you find that you still have enough guest race space to proceed at a reasonable pace? Obviously if you're getting 2K+ tourney points each week, and in an active FS, you're going to be techlocked, because you're getting 50-100KP extra each week. But do you find that you still can moderately progress through later chapters?

A big part to the space issue is your factory and armory space allocations. There are 2 obvious wonders to help with armory and the culture bonus on the monastery/sanctuary does help a lot with culture space (just wish people could give help to it ). As to tech lock remember part of the idea is to be building your wonders to assist your army so it really isn't an issue in that respect, also not enough wonders levels is likely to cause you problems in halflings and elementals and beyond.

I did have a town (in S&D) that was free-to-play and on minimum expansions with all wonders built. Space was tight but achievable and I was getting through the chapters in a decent time, well I was catching up to my end-game towns. I have only stopped playing it due to t

It is a little cramped right now since I am borrowing space from my woodelf settlement for the stupid redbeard event. That is slowing my woodelf progression, but since I have all of these wonders to build up I don't mind.

I am not over scouted. In fact I only have 199 completed provinces. That leaves 21 to do before I can start S&D.

Over scouting is a vague concept. There are no rules and the only guidelines we have is expectation wee would be 10-30 provinces above the minimum, still able to fight and scout times around or under 24hrs. Unless your specifically chasing minimum provinces you will find at those later chapters you can safely do several more provinces than the minimum. My town in halflings doing minimum expansions only had very easy (blue) provinces, that is a lot of potential expansions just sitting there waiting to be accessed. Each person has to determine their approach, every chapter makes it easier and easier to stretch beyond minimum and still have very easy and easy fights.

 

[SoggyShorts]

. Right now I've found a decent equilibrium (though I may have too much space devoted to mana). I'm running 4/3/3, with 9 workshops, and 2 armories, and don't have a ton of extra space, though.

Do you have supplies wonders? The EE and PT should be more efficient at making supplies than a workshop, even at level 1, which would allow you to remove a workshop or 2 and all of the support buildings they need. Same goes for the ToS as long as you scout a few times per week.
That in turn can let you add more military wonders.

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Do you have supplies wonders? The EE and PT should be more efficient at making supplies than a workshop, even at level 1, which would allow you to remove a workshop or 2 and all of the support buildings they need. Same goes for the ToS as long as you scout a few times per week.
That in turn can let you add more military wonders.

I know you've posted the math, but I've been meaning to confirm it for myself. Hopefully tomorrow, since today I am running PoP spells on my workshops. I think its going to boil down to me accepting that a. getting to delete a residence+ worth of buildings due to freeing up population, and b. its ok to have level 1 AWs that will rarely, if ever, get levelled.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Running pop spells does make a workshop better than a level 1 wonder, but using them on all of your workshops all the time isn't sustainable.
Even getting PoP from the tournament isn't enough which means you need to cook your T4 relics into PoP spells.
The drop from 9 WS with PoP to 7 WS with PoP and some wonders isn't that significant in most cases.
Lastly, The PT increases both the effectiveness and duration of those PoP spells

 

[DeletedUser9601]

Even getting PoP from the tournament isn't enough which means you need to cook your T4 relics into PoP spells.

This is something I am really interested to see come out of beta. And if you need a significant number of T4 relics to get to 700% boost, I wonder how much that guts the Dragon Abbey mana strategy?

 

[SoggyShorts]

This is something I am really interested to see come out of beta. And if you need a significant number of T4 relics to get to 700% boost, I wonder how much that guts the Dragon Abbey mana strategy?

I had just over 500 relics (700% boost), so I switched from PoP to MM which I will use constantly on sentient productions.

 

[Mykan]

I know you've posted the math, but I've been meaning to confirm it for myself. Hopefully tomorrow, since today I am running PoP spells on my workshops. I think its going to boil down to me accepting that a. getting to delete a residence+ worth of buildings due to freeing up population, and b. its ok to have level 1 AWs that will rarely, if ever, get levelled.

Some graphs to go with the maths, Analysis of some Wonders
One thing it shows is just because you discount a level 1 wonder in x chapter doesn't mean you shouldn't consider it in the next chapter. Every chapter the gap between wonders and workshops in efficiency increases in favour of wonders.

 

[DeletedUser7370]

There are no rules and the only guidelines we have is expectation wee would be 10-30 provinces above the minimum, still able to fight and scout times around or under 24hrs.

I have been aiming for the blutopia since the beginning. I see provinces as an exhaustible resource, while tournaments are a renewable resource. Therefore I plan and devote troops heavily to tournaments and want to minimize how man troops are used conquering provinces. The only reason to push for more provinces is space and I have not had any significant space issues since chapter 5. As I said I could deal with my current cramped situation very easily.

since today I am running PoP spells on my workshops.

I tend to run PoPs once a week on a day when I can collect every hour. With only 5 workshops it doesn't take many to do and tournament provinces 10 and beyond all give a PoP on round 1. Which mean I get 10+ per week with no cooking.

I am with Soggy on the math for T4. When I get there I will be using MM enchantments at a rate of 1 per day because I will have just 1 factory. The tournament can easily provide 7 each week. Leaving me to only cook Inspiring Meditations as I need them.