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    Your Elvenar Team

Blocking

Kadhrin

Well-Known Member
I asked her why, but she won't reply. I tried to visit her and it says player has received enough help. Even when she will be the only one contributing to an AW. Maybe making too much of this.
Ah. "Player has received enough help" may refer to the "give some, get some" balancing? There's a maximum you can receive in KP donations in a given time frame. Then you either have to donate KP to someone else to balance that, or wait. Eventually you can receive more.
 

Pheryll

Set Designer
I asked her why, but she won't reply. I tried to visit her and it says player has received enough help. Even when she will be the only one contributing to an AW. Maybe making too much of this.
That is the game that is blocking you to prevent excessive pushing. That is until this player gives more KP to others, (s)he is prohibited from receiving more from any player.
 

Iyapo

Personal Conductor
I asked her why, but she won't reply. I tried to visit her and it says player has received enough help. Even when she will be the only one contributing to an AW. Maybe making too much of this.
It is also possible that the player does not speak English and can not be bothered to copy and paste every word for a translation. Unlikely, but possible.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
We almost never have "poachers" now because we have an AW Mage who daily checks to see which AW's are near the next upgrade. Then, if the player hasn't already done so, he issues a Shout Out in chat that tells others there is a "poacher." All he does is add a +1 (or sometimes 2 if there are 2). That tells everyone that, in his opinion, two "foreigners" have claimed chests for less than they are worth. Almost always the members of our fs jump in and "outbid" the poacher. (I don't like the term because it implies the person is a bad person and that it's a moral failing. He/she may, as noted above by more than on response, just not know). In any case, our focus is to capture all the chests for ourselves thus minimizing the cost of our AW upgrades and building strong and helpful teamwork. So our shout outs look like this: SO: [optional player name, otherwise assumed to be the poster] [Name of AW] [number of chests left with no one claiming them] / [slash] [number of KP left to finish (always less than 100), and optionally: + [the number of foreigners claiming chests]. Usually if the foreigner is offering more than the chest he/she is claiming we let it slide. So our focus is usually on just those giving 1 to 4 KP. In addition, if one of the foreigners is a friend or possible previous fellowship mate, the poster either adds no + number or notes it in the post, like "Joe doesn't need bumped."

In the end the post might look like: SO: Jill's ToS 85/4+1 Then, as players respond they keep track by putting the countdown in chat. So the next entry might be made by Sam and say 65/3+1, meaning the immediate SO (the last one mentioned in chat) is now at 65 KP to go, 3 chests unclaimed, and a fourth claimed by a foreigner at a small amount. Next player may then move it to 55/2+1 and so on until it gets to either 0/0+0 (or "done") or the foreigner gets bumped (usually the last player does this.)

Now this may have been a rather long explanation but the bumping of foreigners is something that can be done pretty easily if your fs uses SO's and is trained well. Starship Valiant- does it very well and we see very, very few foreigners claiming what we think of as our chests.

@lyapo I appreciate your thinking outside the box. You are right that English may not be the person's first language or even a language he/she understands. What I really appreciate about it, though is that you don't just grab the first motivation -- greed -- that might explain why a person may put such a small amount on an AW, and run with it. Deeper thought realizes that most people are not really that selfish but are often ignorant, and sometimes unable to easily overcome their lack of understanding. One of the things I like about the people here is they are often willing to entertain the idea that sometimes there are multiple motives to doing something and just because I don't like what you did doesn't mean what you did was evil or selfish. So, thanks to you and the others in this thread who help us all understand others better by suggesting more positive motivations for their actions.

AJ
 
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YarL

Member
I had a player get angry at me for adding KPs (I think 15 KPs, maybe more). He was willing to explain for a long time (several messages) why he was angry. He said that he realizes that I don’t understand why he was angry, but accepts that I meant no malice.

There were times in the past where I put down just a couple KPs on an AW, so I don’t t do that anymore. Now I try to largely use runes worth 15 KP for adding to other people’s AWs. Or, at the very least 5 or more. Is there a minimum amount that is considered acceptable?

I’ve also learned to not pass up others on the reward list when an AW is almost finished.
 

Iyapo

Personal Conductor
Is there a minimum amount that is considered acceptable?
Wow! We all disagree on this and we all have our own opinions. Best of luck getting a "universally acceptable" rule.

In my opinion, any KP donation to my wonders are free KP. I would never send a mail asking someone to not or stop giving me KP. I can ask my fellowship to bump them if I am bothered. 1 or 2 kp bothers me unless it is a brand new city. But 3 is an AW KP instant and probably a "Hey thanks for the trade".
I’ve also learned to not pass up others on the reward list when an AW is almost finished.
Always best to follow your fellowships rules on this. If they don't have rules, ask everyone for opinions in a mail.

Out side of the Fellowship it is generally considered rude to bump a player's fellowship mates but. . .a lot of players love getting help on their wonders so they do not have a problem with you bumping someone that gave them 5 kp on a 120 kp chest, mate or not.
 

Smooper

Well-Known Member
Wow! We all disagree on this and we all have our own opinions. Best of luck getting a "universally acceptable" rule.

In my opinion, any KP donation to my wonders are free KP. I would never send a mail asking someone to not or stop giving me KP. I can ask my fellowship to bump them if I am bothered. 1 or 2 kp bothers me unless it is a brand new city. But 3 is an AW KP instant and probably a "Hey thanks for the trade".

Always best to follow your fellowships rules on this. If they don't have rules, ask everyone for opinions in a mail.

Out side of the Fellowship it is generally considered rude to bump a player's fellowship mates but. . .a lot of players love getting help on their wonders so they do not have a problem with you bumping someone that gave them 5 kp on a 120 kp chest, mate or not.
Here is the problem, when is bumping a thing. Does the first person to donate have claim to the top chest? So everyone is supposed to fall in order? I just give them as much KP as I think I can afford at that time and don't worry about getting chests. I am just trying to help a teammate get a AW level. Netzero could help with this if you have the patience to run it in your fellowship.
 

Iyapo

Personal Conductor
Netzero could help with this if you have the patience to run it in your fellowship.
You can bump on net zero. If a player drops more than chest value and bumps the players already on a chest, then the owner of the wonder has to pay back the losses of the Fellowship members who were bumped.
It is net zero, so no loss for the wonder owner but it does create work.

Edit to add: a lot of fellowships have no bumping rules for shout outs and some players get down right pissy about an outsider bumping any fellowship member off a chest for any reason. Wonder Society fellowships actively boot outside chest claims. Active Swap threads passively boot outside chest claims.
 
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free-spirit

Well-Known Member
I get a ton of random small donations in my wonders. Sometimes it's just players giving a bit as a thank you for taking a trade; sometimes, I suspect they're hoping for cheap chests, and sometimes, I think new players just don't know what to do with their kp instants. I appreciate any and all donations.

Our FS is excellent at bumping outsiders off the chests, so if I see a small city has donated, I do make a point to go to their city and give them some kp back. Sometimes I bump down a fellow, but I always make sure I donate the full value of any chest I might be earning.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
Here is the problem, when is bumping a thing. Does the first person to donate have claim to the top chest?

No, unless the first person to donate puts in enough to only break even with what they get back, they do not deserve the first chest. And I say this about both outsiders and fellowship members. But then, I do not like selfish people. As for bumping, my general rule is that bumping, by me or of me, is not a problem so long as the person being bumped is not reduced to getting back less than they put in. Say someone put in 30 kp and is sitting in the top spot, but that top spot, between rune shards and AK, rewards back 50. And say the 3rd spot gives back 30. I would put in more than 30, so long as that player is not bumped down lower than that 3rd spot, so that they do not lose anything. Of course, some jerk may come along and bump everyone again and we all end up losing out, but that is what we have to deal with.
 

Smooper

Well-Known Member
No, unless the first person to donate puts in enough to only break even with what they get back, they do not deserve the first chest. And I say this about both outsiders and fellowship members. But then, I do not like selfish people. As for bumping, my general rule is that bumping, by me or of me, is not a problem so long as the person being bumped is not reduced to getting back less than they put in. Say someone put in 30 kp and is sitting in the top spot, but that top spot, between rune shards and AK, rewards back 50. And say the 3rd spot gives back 30. I would put in more than 30, so long as that player is not bumped down lower than that 3rd spot, so that they do not lose anything. Of course, some jerk may come along and bump everyone again and we all end up losing out, but that is what we have to deal with.
This is definitely not how I donate or play this game. I give gifts, I don't really expect anything back. I am not going to analyze the chests and compare to all the donors. I give 10, 20, 30 pts and don't even look where I fall on the list. If someone has a complaint they can come to me but our fellowship is not about being the most efficient with our donations.
 
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