#Boycott the 9 Chests

[Mykan]

AJ her is why I make the statements

3) that the feedback was ignored even when asked for. Beta and from what I infer from the translations on the International forum all were of displeasure and calls for adjustments and fixes to drastically reduce or eliminate the ORC and MANA use, and to take out the penalty for growing and application of expansions, any number of items that were feedback asked for and given and ignored it seems. the beta threads are long and detailed and not allowed as I understand the rules to be linked here.

These are objective comparisons based on what has been openly given as results and background. Are my comparisons personal, no, I don't have a beta account and could not test, but I can read and understand the results of users I trust.

Agree or disagree I do not care but I do like that one way or another the discussion is here and in public rather than just in the back of the minds of players.

For the record they did make adjustments to mana, orcs and premium expansions (already implemented on live). Of course not as much or what players would like but they did tweak these based on feedback. Bottom line with expansions is it is the new difficulty direction they have decided on and started with spire.

@clusseau I hadn't looked at the EN results until your comment but yes one team got all 19 chests last week so it is achievable. I am actually surprised (pleasently) to see tourney scores still very high there, initally on beta 5K was considered top tier. 10 chests has been made way easier from what I saw, which appeared to be their goal. So it will be interesting to see how it all plays out. As you said it is the metrics they will pay attention to and tweak things if they see anomolies in those.

 

[ajqtrz]

AJ I wanted to answer this separately, the persuasion is this thread and post and all the responses and then the players that share that Idea. We don't have a News station to broadcast this idea it can only spread word of mouth. weel 1 I expect many will try to go far into the 11-19 range and I do hope that they don't expend more than they should, but I think many/some/few will and that will help to spread the displeasure of the 9 and just maybe they will come here and see this thread and think yeah I wish I had ... week 2 and after if many fewer fellowships are going past 10 it should be noticed and then questions asked and that is all we can hope to get it started with.

I hope this makes sense and explains the ramble in my mind.

It's called "organic persuasion" as it relies on the experience of the individual to sense the problem enough to take action rather than pointing out the problem, explaining it, and then suggesting the solution and why the solution will work to solve the problem (and not cause bigger or at least other problems). There are two weaknesses in "organic persuasion." First, the problem must be immediately obvious to any and everyone who comes face to face with it. And second, the problem has to be significant enough to drive people to not only complain, but complain loud enough to hear each other. Your post can only serve as a focal point is enough people find the problem significant enough to take the action of coming to the forum and looking for somebody complaining about the problem and offering a solution. After that you still have to persuade those arriving that your solution will work and can be done with a minimal cost.

Overall, I'm of the opinion that if this works it will occur within a couple weeks of the new tournament format going live (tomorrow, I believe). Otherwise, as with all organic persuasion attempts, people will adjust their expectations/actions to minimize the dissonance they feel when they are doing the tournament -- in other words they will lower their expectations and carry on.

I've not played the new tournament yet so I have no idea if your strategy will work or not. Generally speaking such strategies boil down to market impact and thus, the real strategy will, as yours' ultimately is, impact the bottom line and that will make Inno make changes.

I do wish you the best and will be interested to see how it all works out.

AJ

 

[StarLoad]

For the record they did make adjustments to mana, orcs and premium expansions (already implemented on live). Of course not as much or what players would like but they did tweak these based on feedback. Bottom line with expansions is it is the new difficulty direction they have decided on and started with spire.

Yes you are correct, I should have been clear that the minor adjustments made did not equal the requested changes and still, the feedback asked for the Orcs numbers to drastically reduce or be eliminated and not to use any decaying goods, like Mana.

 

[StarLoad]

It's called "organic persuasion" as it relies on the experience of the individual to sense the problem enough to take action rather than pointing out the problem, explaining it, and then suggesting the solution and why the solution will work to solve the problem (and not cause bigger or at least other problems). There are two weaknesses in "organic persuasion." First, the problem must be immediately obvious to any and everyone who comes face to face with it. And second, the problem has to be significant enough to drive people to not only complain, but complain loud enough to hear each other. Your post can only serve as a focal point is enough people find the problem significant enough to take the action of coming to the forum and looking for somebody complaining about the problem and offering a solution. After that you still have to persuade those arriving that your solution will work and can be done with a minimal cost.

Overall, I'm of the opinion that if this works it will occur within a couple weeks of the new tournament format going live (tomorrow, I believe). Otherwise, as with all organic persuasion attempts, people will adjust their expectations/actions to minimize the dissonance they feel when they are doing the tournament -- in other words they will lower their expectations and carry on.

I've not played the new tournament yet so I have no idea if your strategy will work or not. Generally speaking such strategies boil down to market impact and thus, the real strategy will, as yours' ultimately is, impact the bottom line and that will make Inno make changes.

I do wish you the best and will be interested to see how it all works out.

AJ

Yeah, I just use fewer words

 

[SoggyShorts]

The extra chests are akin to the carrot dangled in front of the draft animal to keep them moving even if it damages the animal. At least that is how I see them.

I take a different perspective on them: The tenth chest is the ultimate goal, but if a FS accidentally goes over 40K there is a tiny little bonus prize.
As I mentioned earlier I'm quite happy with there being a 40K cap on "good" prizes as my fellowships would have to really ramp things up if the new goal became 60,000 or even higher.

I do not believe even for a second that there is anything we could say or do that would have INNO simply add prizes to chest 11+ with no other adjustments. If we push and complain we might get them to move the best prizes ahead and add some more.
For example no blueprint until 12th chest but some extra KP for chest 11.

Getting 1,600 points required 144-200 encounters in the old tournaments, and now it's down to 36-50. YAY!
I have no desire to increase my required encounters up to 54-75 by moving the goalposts to 2,400.
I don't usually like slippery slope arguments, but that's just at 60K, and there are many chests after that.

I'm curious as to your personal reasons for wanting this change-- on US1 you've only done over 2k three times, and on US 4 your average is ~800. Do you really want to triple your score every week from now on?

 

[StarLoad]

I take a different perspective on them: The tenth chest is the ultimate goal, but if a FS accidentally goes over 40K there is a tiny little bonus prize.
As I mentioned earlier I'm quite happy with there being a 40K cap on "good" prizes as my fellowships would have to really ramp things up if the new goal became 60,000 or even higher.

I do not believe even for a second that there is anything we could say or do that would have INNO simply add prizes to chest 11+ with no other adjustments. If we push and complain we might get them to move the best prizes ahead and add some more.
For example no blueprint until 12th chest but some extra KP for chest 11.

Getting 1,600 points required 144-200 encounters in the old tournaments, and now it's down to 36-50. YAY!
I have no desire to increase my required encounters up to 54-75 by moving the goalposts to 2,400.
I don't usually like slippery slope arguments, but that's just at 60K, and there are many chests after that.

I'm curious as to your personal reasons for wanting this change-- on US1 you've only done over 2k three times, and on US 4 your average is ~800. Do you really want to triple your score every week from now on?

I was one of those players that catered all the tourney play, until one day I realized I was running out of goods and that I had to battle.
I was WAY behind the majority of players in AW and the few I had were not military in nature, oh, and yes the Barracks, TG, and Merc camp were not updated. So battling has been a slow process, but I am now better placed to do more, however, over the past several months I am lucky to finish 4 rounds but now that I have a timewarp and am building that up it should help.

I am not advocating any change to expand the tourney or the prizes to higher chests at all, I am or was pointing out that the chests 11-19 are like a dangling carrot. If I gave that impression I am sorry.

 

[DeletedUser21570]

I agree with Soggy. I want them to keep the 11-19 chests as just "extra".

And for those looking at the tournament on EN where the fellowship got all 19 chests - that FS is 25 members who are HARDCORE tournament players. ALL 25 of them. Their main goal as an FS is to outscore all other FS on ALL other servers in the tournament. It is a source of pride for them. You tell me how many other FS are comprised of 25 members that care that much about the tournament. Not many

And even members of that group have said in the EN forum what they did is not sustainable in the new format. They did it to try and keep their top ranking across servers knowing that nobody else was on this tournament format. Oh, and there may have been accepting the challenge that was thrown down by INNO in the announcement stating that 19 chests wouldn't be possible right away. I have a feeling their scores will drop once all other servers are on the new format.

That being said, I don't agree with a boycott.

 

[qaccy]

The way I see it, those chests just mean extra rewards for what I and my FS are already doing. We already go well beyond 10 chests as it is, so it'll be nice to have extra rewards thrown in for essentially free.

 

[Deleted User - 849120185]

Wow, for a new player, joining a forum to see the 1st Announcement is about a boycott of something I do not even understand does not give me any good vibes about this game.
Thanks for the heads up.

 

[StarLoad]

Wow, for a new player, joining a forum to see the 1st Announcement is about a boycott of something I do not even understand does not give me any good vibes about this game.
Thanks for the heads up.

I sent you a message to help explain and do not take this as an inditement of the game, it is still fun overall

 

[Yogi Dave]

Wow, for a new player, joining a forum to see the 1st Announcement is about a boycott of something I do not even understand does not give me any good vibes about this game.
Thanks for the heads up.

There are lots of complains by people in the forum. It's not indicative of the fun in the game. You may have noticed almost everybody who replied in this thread don't agree with a boycott.

 

[Kekune]

Wow, for a new player, joining a forum to see the 1st Announcement is about a boycott of something I do not even understand does not give me any good vibes about this game.
Thanks for the heads up.

Also, fwiw, people only try to organize boycotts when they feel strongly about something. So at least you know people like the game enough to care. If not, there'd be no suggested boycott or resulting discussion - people would just leave.

 

[NightshadeCS]

As with many elements in this game, personal perspective is sometimes the thing that needs adjustment rather than the game mechanics.

In one of my groups, we get 10 chests every week, but also have a minimum requirement per player. Almost every week, a few players go beyond the required points, and a few players are doing a round right at the end of the tourney to make their quota. It is really nice now to have the prospect of getting something for those efforts, whereas before it felt like a waste.

So, really, we can go with Ed's suggestion without really thinking of it as a boycott. Keep 40,000 and 10 chests as the goal, and then enjoy the "extras" if everyone is rocking it.

 

[Shellizzie]

We are a FS that hits the 10th chest on Wednesday night or Thursday morning. Obviously we have a group of overachievers We are currently almost done with the 15th chest. Not sure how far we will get but the goal is the individual prizes. Not the group prizes, although we love those too. We have almost always gone over and above the 10 chests so the extras are a bonus right now. It would be nice to have better prizes in the,, but since we always go over anyway something is better than nothing.

 

[Heymrdiedier]

if you wanna boycott something, it makes more sense to me that you don't even start the next chapter that should be coming to beta soon. Think thats a more proper way. There is no point in doing it, since it only makes your game harder, and they wasted money developing a chapter that nobody wants to play, so im prettys sure that's a signal they will feel, some players holding themselves in on tournament while others suddenly do more. They won't even notice that. If you consider that its the end game players who suffer the most by these tournament changes, boycotting the next chapter makes perfect sense to me.

 

[DeletedUser7791]

Not everyone who enjoys hiking climbs Mt. Everest. But some people do it, "Because it's there".