Brainstorming about Tournaments

[DeletedUser627]

You're trying much too hard. Collective nouns and pronouns are entirely common. http://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2012/06/collective-nouns-2.html and a great many other grammar blogs will inform you regarding their usage.
Who is this "we?" Are you speaking for the entire user community in some official capacity?

You are hoist on your own petard.

Katwijk, Reza is being politely understated. Served straight up, the private consensus is that you present yourself as something more than a player. This is just one instance of your usage of a collective pronoun, mentioned as an instance of a pattern. Overall, you do seem inclined to the "royal plural": sometimes it's you and Inno, sometimes it's you and other players.

Due to the "you and Inno" insinuations, there's speculation and distrust about your presence here. You're sooooo very pro Inno within a forum that is otherwise inclined toward passive tolerance of Inno or outright anti-Inno sentiment....it just doesn't add up.

Due to the "you and other players" representations, there's even more frustration. Your game strategy is unique - and I mean that in the trust sense of the definition. We'd love to admire it from afar...but it doesn't represent the goals / preferences of most players. That's being generous - I can't think of anyone else who measures the success of their game by how few clicks they can make. So, when you offer up opinion after opinion, and simultaneously criticize anyone else who plays differently than you...well, it's a strategy tailor made for alienation. Then when - with your solo mindset in full swing - you use a collective pronoun to direct a comment toward Inno (as if you're just "one of the guys here")...it's enough to make a saint swear. BobbyKitty is one of the most tolerant, kind-hearted people around, but she switched into feral mode due to your agitation. I dropped out of the forum for a while just to avoid you - if I didn't take a time out, the moderators would have ended up booting me. In a game where so many of us are trying hard to get Inno to pay attention to genuine issues, your over-abundance of posts - focused on ego-stroking Inno developers - is seen as undermining the majority opinions.

There's no denying that some of your observations are brilliant. Your playing style is challenging - kudos to you. But it's not better. Its very uniqueness, and your unique approach to the game, means that you seldom have authority to use a collective noun - your opinions don't represent the majority of players. And your history of bashing other players means that you don't get to conveniently forget your preference for alienation and blithely sing out, "we the players..."

 

[DeletedUser594]

I did see your post in the other forums after I wrote that- and I don't feel that I call you on stuff so much as give a little good natured ribbing. But You Reza- don't know your Elvenar history and should give your elven ears back in shame.
Back when I started there were no fellowships, no Winyandor and no Cerberus. The only thing Humans had were the pink tutu wearing fightin'44th flingers of furry fury and they are the only reason there's not a human portal in your city right now.

 

[DeletedUser61]

Has anybody collected data regarding the Troop Combinations for the various Relic sectors?

In particular, is there ALWAYS a relic that has a single defender?? I'm not very interested in an exhaustive analysis of troop strength, BUT if I could record a single number per sector, and thereby correlate troop strength with ring distance and/or the number of explored sectors, that would be worth the extra effort.

 

[DeletedUser594]

I'll keep an eye out. I just started a city on the en. server just a tad too soon to have tried the snaking route you suggested.

 

[DeletedUser61]

You're sooooo very pro Inno within a forum that is otherwise inclined toward passive tolerance of Inno or outright anti-Inno sentiment..

I've been playing city builders for 20 years, and I happen to think that InnoGames is on the right track. City Builders have been a orphan category for years and years, and kudos to InnoGames for trying to change the paradigm.

I've always played games analytically. Take a look at

• http://web.archive.org/web/20050221040341/http://www.marvl.com/serpentineum/ZigZag-Cities.htm
• http://www.atitd.org/wiki/tale3/Guides/Quarrying/Spiral_Search

I happen to have the chops for various sorts of numerical analysis, but I fully recognize that analysis is not, and SHOULD NOT BE a core element of the game. In point of fact a well designed game ALLOWS players to muddle through with no more concern for the game mechanics than you might have for how your automatic transmission works.

On the other hand, I'm no particular respecter of folks who blast through all of the available content, crow about their "high score" as if that were proof that they understand how to play the game, and then fuss and fume because they HAVE blasted through all of the available content and lack the imagination to explore the more subtle aspects of the game.

My various projects, including Nine Near Neighbors and this analysis of Scouting Costs are explicitly designed to put pressure on the developers in areas where I think they've fallen short of the mark. But I think it's simply absurd to imply malevolence or incompetence when the developers are doing a better job, by half, than I've EVER seen during my 20 years of fascination with the city builder genre.

 

[DeletedUser627]

I'd be so happy that you're fascinated with the "city builder genre" if you'd be equally happy with us poor muddlers who blast and crow and merely think we know how to play due to our pathetic lack of imagination.

So, fundamentally, you don't respect anyone who is currently finished with research because we're blasters. Patience, willingness to do tedious tasks, some strategic ability, and willingness to put money into the game - these don't moderate your opinion, we're just fools who fume.

You don't respect anyone with a high score - since I've never seen a discussion bragging about scores, you seem to equate "crowing" with the rank status published by Inno.

You don't respect anyone who thinks they're a bit bored now, because we lack imagination and subtlety.

You don't respect the opinions of fellow players either, because the forum remarks with regard to Wonders and the Academy are dismal, both here and in Beta, while you're way out there in "best job ever" land.

Contrastingly, I have respect for your abilities and have repeatedly said so publicly. I have zero respect for your continual disdain for any opinion at variance with your own.

 

[DeletedUser]

But You Reza- don't know your Elvenar history and should give your elven ears back in shame.

My Elvenar history? You have seen my 2 cities and the stages they are at. My Elvenar history started with my Elven city on Aren mate. That should be obvious.

So you show disdain for newer players, who recently started playing the game despite some of us having 20+ years of online gaming history in general? Build games, PvP, mixed PvP/PvE. SPG's, MPG's, etc.? So the only people who should contribute to discussions are those who have been here since day 1, pre-release Beta players? Those who have dozens and dozens of cities and accounts?

There are *shock* other games and game companies besides Inno on the InterWebz. With no pom-poms and pyramids-of-death cheerleader stacking required to play or participate...

 

[DeletedUser594]

Nah I just needed an excuse to make that ridiculous pic. Took me forever- can't photo shop to save my life. 2 hours of a Sunday morning spent on that. I'm sure my Mom would be proud.

 

[DeletedUser627]

Has anybody collected data regarding the Troop Combinations for the various Relic sectors?

In particular, is there ALWAYS a relic that has a single defender?? I'm not very interested in an exhaustive analysis of troop strength, BUT if I could record a single number per sector, and thereby correlate troop strength with ring distance and/or the number of explored sectors, that would be worth the extra effort.

I don't remember the last time I saw a single defender province, but that's not statistical. I have two provinces open in Ring 10, both with two defenders. For some time, this has been the standard.

 

[DeletedUser]

Nah I just needed an excuse to make that ridiculous pic. Took me forever- can't photo shop to save my life. 2 hours of a Sunday morning spent on that. I'm sure my Mom would be proud.

Lol! Well played mate.

 

[DeletedUser]

I don't remember the last time I saw a single defender province, but that's not statistical. I have two provinces open in Ring 10, both with two defenders. For some time, this has been the standard.

I have seen single defender areas within provinces (only massive squads of knights for example in ring 5 in my Elven city). But I have only seen single defenders in 1-2 areas in any given province I am trying to clear up to now. Perhaps this will change once I can break the Elven Army wall and move out to ring 6. But I suspect that will not be the case.

 

[DeletedUser61]

I've never seen a discussion bragging about scores, you seem to equate "crowing" with the rank status published by Inno.

And what, pray tell, was the criteria that you used to select your "top 30 players?"

The top 30 players tend to be innovative/ creative in their approach; less likely to follow rules; inclined to spend more-than-average amounts of time and money. In other online games, these are the players who establish virtual empires, groundbreak, accomplish game highs that inspire other players, etc. Rather than being encouraged to lead, they're being cut off from play time.

This is akin to the varsity basketball team assuming that they're why we have High Schools.

 

[DeletedUser]

And what, pray tell, was the criteria that you used to selected your "top 30 players?"

This is akin to the varsity basketball team assuming that they're why we have High Schools.

In many areas, the sports teams at schools ARE the only reason those schools High Schools and Colleges both( seem to exist. We have several like that in the area I live in. All money goes to upgrading gymnasiums, fields, uniforms and equipment. While Academics suffer and stumble along with 30 year old textbooks, often held together with duct tape where the bindings used to be. One of our regional High Schools is well known in the area for having State and National Champion sports teams across the board, while many alumni graduate barely able to correctly spell their own names.

Many in the communities enrolled in that particular school district have our own aside school slogan- "Learn to SCORE! Because LEARNING is such a BORE! Rah Rah Rah!"

And still... where do you see "bragging" in bobbi's post? Pray, do tell? She referenced the INNO created rank system as an example of a motivator for many top players and those who seek to emulate them. Hardly bragging mate, merely an astute observance.

 

[DeletedUser61]

Rah Rah Ree!
Kick 'em in the knee!
Rah Rah Ras!
Kick 'em in the other knee.

where do you see "bragging" in bobbi's post?

I didn't say "brag," I said "crow." It's as easy as breathing.
See Metabolic and Respiratory Costs of Increasing Song Amplitude in Zebra Finches

 

[DeletedUser]

I didn't say "brag," I said "crow." It's as easy as breathing.
See Metabolic and Respiratory Costs of Increasing Song Amplitude in Zebra Finches

I suggest you see Define "Crow"- scroll down to SYNONYMS mate...

And breathing is not always easy. Ever watched a COPD or Emphysema patient progress further into the NON REVERSIBLE decay of either or both disorders? And try to breathe? I have mate. And it was not easy for them to do, or easy for me to watch. And NEITHER were smokers, ever in their lives. The disorders were caused by a combination of genetics and ENVIRONMENT. Similar to the "Game Environment"...

Your analogy is invalid.

 

[DeletedUser627]

Synonym Discussion of crow

boast, brag, vaunt, crow mean to express pride in oneself or one's accomplishments. boast often suggests ostentation and exaggeration <boasts of every trivial success>, but it may imply a claiming with proper and justifiable pride <the town boasts one of the best museums in the area>. brag suggests crudity and artlessness in glorifying oneself <bragging of their exploits>.vaunt usually connotes more pomp and bombast than boast and less crudity or naïveté than brag<vaunted his country's military might>. crow usually implies exultant boasting or bragging<crowed after winning the championship>.

 

[DeletedUser61]

it would still be nice to have opinions differentiated from unequivocal facts

In an odd way I very much agree with bobbipiazza. There are two reasons why I'm putting so much effort into my analyses of the map related portions of the game.

1. Vacancies, Immigrants, Visitation, Trading, Relics, Runes, and the upcoming Provincial Tournaments are all map-centric. The better we understand how the maps work, the better we'll be at the game.
2. "Trouble-shooting" the maps is extremely difficult. Merely establishing what's "supposed" to be happening is hard enough, but the upcoming Provincial Tournaments will (hopefully) provide us with a "practice field" wherein we can test and polish various strategies and tactics.

I think Provincial Tournaments will be the hub of the Elvenar wheel. We'll never be "done" with the Provincial Tournaments. They're a journey, rather than a destination.

Quite frankly, there's a lot of weirdness and simplistic thinking that exhibits when you start looking at the maps analytically. They're messy. But so what? People are actually pretty good at messy. Would you rather have them sterile and predictable? Before you can improve things you need to understand how they work, and there's still a LOT that we don't understand about Elvenar. In this case "we" most certainly includes the development team.

Much of what we're seeing is emergent behavior. The developers quite clearly didn't expect declinable quests to go where they went. When you plant a garden you'll have a general idea of what you expect, and you'll need to stay ahead of the weeds, but it's the expression of that idea that's the enjoyable part.

This is all a fancy way of saying that Elvenar is blossoming quite nicely. It's already better than most of the games that I've ever played, and that's a long list. It's wonderfully complex if you take the time to enjoy it.

 

[DeletedUser]

This is all a fancy way of saying that Elvenar is blossoming very nicely. It's already better than most of the games that I've ever played, and that's a long list. It's wonderfully complex if you take the time to enjoy it.

Fantastic. It all fits your singular obsession with Inno, this game and the genre as you would like to play it.

You are entitled to your singular opinion and obsession mate. Others, such as myself, are entitled to ours, and our game style, our ways, our opinions and differences with your take on it. I have played many builder type games, and may war games and more genres over the last 20 + years. Legends of Future Past ring a bell? Or Zork>Dungeon? Or Avalon: The Legend Lives? Adventure? MUD? Civony>Evony?

I have seen many, Many, MANY games in my lifetime. And this one IMHO does not outshine a single other one ever created. It has it's points. Sadly, at this stage, many of those points are not connected, and orphaned out in cyberspace as it were. Perhaps they will string them together. Perhaps. But they better do it before those of us who are not Inno obsessed and pocketed decide to walk away without a single glance backwards. Or another dime dropped into the pockets some seem to find so warm to sit in.

 

[DeletedUser61]

You can also print your own graph paper. Download a free PDF from http://www.printablepaper.net/preview/hexagon-portrait-letter-4

 

[DeletedUser61]

I've charted the first few battles in the snake pattern that I'm exploring, and while there ARE some interesting patterns, I don't really have enough data, as yet, to say anything definitive.

If you look at Scout #8, Scrolls, which is two posts down this thread, you'll note several elements that bear watching.

• Three different battles have 45 troops in a single squad.
• Three different battles have 13+13+13+13=52 in the pool
• Two different battles have 17+17+17=51 in the pool

For each of the battles I'm noting the Scouting Costs and dividing by the LEAST number of weighted troops in any of the battles. I don't have enough data yet, to be sure of the pattern, but it appears to be 5th grade division, with an even distribution plus a remainder. Maybe, just maybe, the cost to pool ratio will be the key to predicting how difficult a battle will be.

It will also be interesting to compare the various types of relic sectors, at various distance, to see how much similarity actually exists.

I lifted the unit weights from the wiki, at https://en.wiki.elvenar.com/index.php?title=Units#Unit_Stats_Provinces

Provicial	Weight	Size
Thief	1	Light Melee
Bandit	1	Short Ranged
War Dog	1	Light Melee
Orc	1	Light Melee
Archer	1	Short Ranged
Knight	4	Heavy Melee
Steinling	4	Heavy Ranged
Swamp Monster	6	Heavy Melee
Necromancer	4	Mage
Cannonneer	6	Heavy Ranged