Brainstorming about Tournaments

[DeletedUser61]

Relic = Scrolls Ring = 8 Race = Elven Size = 252 Weighted = 1260

Defenders	Size	Thief	Bandit	War Dog	Weighted

[tr1][td2] 2a Squads [/td2][td2] 637 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 637 [/td2][td2] 637 [/td2][td2] 1274 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 2b Squads [/td2][td2] 637 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 637 [/td2][td2] 637 [/td2][td2] 1274 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 3a Squads [/td2][td2] 447 [/td2][td2] 447 [/td2][td2] 447 [/td2][td2] 447 [/td2][td2] 1341 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 3b Squads [/td2][td2] 447 [/td2][td2] 447 [/td2][td2] 447 [/td2][td2] 447 [/td2][td2] 1341 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 4 Squads [/td2][td2] 353 [/td2][td2] 353 [/td2][td2] 353 [/td2][td2] 706 [/td2][td2] 1412 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 5 Squads [/td2][td2] 296 [/td2][td2] 296 [/td2][td2] 592 [/td2][td2] 592 [/td2][td2] 1480 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 6 Squads [/td2][td2] 258 [/td2][td2] 258 [/td2][td2] 774 [/td2][td2] 516 [/td2][td2] 1548 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 7 Squads [/td2][td2] 231 [/td2][td2] 231 [/td2][td2] 693 [/td2][td2] 693 [/td2][td2] 1617 [/td2][/tr2]

Negotiate	Marble	Steel	Planks	Scrolls	Silk	Elixir	Magic D	Total	Ratio	Sort H>L	Extremes

[tr1][td2] 2a Squads [/td2][td2] 350 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 240 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 710 [/td2][td2] 506,800 [/td2][td2] 398 [/td2][td2] 506,800 [/td2][td2] 398 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 2b Squads [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 710 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 470 [/td2][td2] 329,200 [/td2][td2] 258 [/td2][td2] 676,800 [/td2][td2] 531 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 3a Squads [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 240 [/td2][td2] 710 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 590 [/td2][td2] 500,800 [/td2][td2] 373 [/td2][td2] 530,400 [/td2][td2] 396 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 3b Squads [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 940 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 240 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 710 [/td2][td2] 530,400 [/td2][td2] 396 [/td2][td2] 500,800 [/td2][td2] 373 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 4 Squads [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 590 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 470 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 350 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 322,800 [/td2][td2] 229 [/td2][td2] 423,600 [/td2][td2] 300 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 5 Squads [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 470 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 940 [/td2][td2] 676,800 [/td2][td2] 457 [/td2][td2] 329,200 [/td2][td2] 222 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 6 Squads [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 240 [/td2][td2] 710 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 123,200 [/td2][td2] 80 [/td2][td2] 322,800 [/td2][td2] 209 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 7 Squads [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 710 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 590 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 470 [/td2][td2] 423,600 [/td2][td2] 262 [/td2][td2] 123,200 [/td2][td2] 76 [/td2][/tr2]

 

[DeletedUser61]

Relic = Silk Ring = 9 (the above charts were all Ring 8) Race = Elven Size = 252 Weighted = 1260

Defenders	Size	Thief	Cannon/6	Weighted

[tr1][td2] 2 Squads [/td2][td2] 785 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 130 [/td2][td2] 1565 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr1][td2] 3 Squads [/td2][td2] 551 [/td2][td2] 551 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 1653 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr1][td2] 4a Squads [/td2][td2] 435 [/td2][td2] 1305 [/td2][td2] 72 [/td2][td2] 1737 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 4b Squads [/td2][td2] 435 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 216 [/td2][td2] 1731 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr2][td2] 5a Squads [/td2][td2] 365 [/td2][td2] 730 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 1825 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr2][td2] 5b Squads [/td2][td2] 365 [/td2][td2] 730 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 1825 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 6 Squads [/td2][td2] 318 [/td2][td2] 1272 [/td2][td2] 106 [/td2][td2] 1908 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 8 Squads [/td2][td2] 260 [/td2][td2] 1300 [/td2][td2] 129 [/td2][td2] 2074 [/td2][/tr2]

Negotiate	Marble	Planks	Scrolls	Silk	Magic D	Gems	Total	Ratio	Sort H>L	Extremes

[tr1][td2] 2 Squads [/td2][td2] 1600 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 390 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 1200 [/td2][td2] 894,400 [/td2][td2] 572 [/td2][td2] 894,400 [/td2][td2] 572 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr1][td2] 3 Squads [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 790 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 590 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 390 [/td2][td2] 375,600 [/td2][td2] 227 [/td2][td2] 854,000 [/td2][td2] 517 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr1][td2] 4a Squads [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 1200 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 790 [/td2][td2] 553,600 [/td2][td2] 319 [/td2][td2] 834,800 [/td2][td2] 481 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 4b Squads [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 590 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 390 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 1200 [/td2][td2] 854,000 [/td2][td2] 493 [/td2][td2] 710,400 [/td2][td2] 410 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr2][td2] 5a Squads [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 1200 [/td2][td2] 980 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 790 [/td2][td2] 710,400 [/td2][td2] 389 [/td2][td2] 553,600 [/td2][td2] 303 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr2][td2] 5b Squads [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 390 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 1200 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 207,600 [/td2][td2] 114 [/td2][td2] 537,200 [/td2][td2] 294 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 6 Squads [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 790 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 1600 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 390 [/td2][td2] 537,200 [/td2][td2] 282 [/td2][td2] 375,600 [/td2][td2] 197 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 8 Squads [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 390 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 1200 [/td2][td2] 980 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 834,800 [/td2][td2] 403 [/td2][td2] 207,600 [/td2][td2] 100 [/td2][/tr2]

 

[DeletedUser61]

Relic = Crystal Ring = 8 Race = Elven Size = 252 Weighted = 1260

Defenders	Size	War Dog	Orc	Weighted

[tr1][td2] 2a Squads [/td2][td2] 650 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 1300 [/td2][td2] 1300 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 2b Squads [/td2][td2] 650 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 1300 [/td2][td2] 1300 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 3a Squads [/td2][td2] 456 [/td2][td2] 456 [/td2][td2] 912 [/td2][td2] 1368 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 3b Squads [/td2][td2] 456 [/td2][td2] 456 [/td2][td2] 912 [/td2][td2] 1368 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 4 Squads [/td2][td2] 360 [/td2][td2] 360 [/td2][td2] 1080 [/td2][td2] 1440 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 5 Squads [/td2][td2] 302 [/td2][td2] 302 [/td2][td2] 1208 [/td2][td2] 1510 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 6 Squads [/td2][td2] 263 [/td2][td2] 263 [/td2][td2] 1315 [/td2][td2] 1578 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 8 Squads [/td2][td2] 215 [/td2][td2] 430 [/td2][td2] 1290 [/td2][td2] 1720 [/td2][/tr2]

Negotiate	Marble		Crystal	Elixir	Total	Ratio	Sort H>L	Extremes

[tr1][td2] 2a Squads [/td2][td2] 500 [/td2][td2] [/td2][td2] 370 [/td2][td2] 250 [/td2][td2] 239,200 [/td2][td2] 184 [/td2][td2] 720,000 [/td2][td2] 554 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 2b Squads [/td2][td2] 750 [/td2][td2] [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 500 [/td2][td2] 350,000 [/td2][td2] 269 [/td2][td2] 534,800 [/td2][td2] 411 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 3a Squads [/td2][td2] 250 [/td2][td2] [/td2][td2] 750 [/td2][td2] 620 [/td2][td2] 526,800 [/td2][td2] 385 [/td2][td2] 526,800 [/td2][td2] 385 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 3b Squads [/td2][td2] 250 [/td2][td2] [/td2][td2] 750 [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] 130,000 [/td2][td2] 95 [/td2][td2] 449,200 [/td2][td2] 328 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 4 Squads [/td2][td2] 750 [/td2][td2] [/td2][td2] 620 [/td2][td2] 500 [/td2][td2] 449,200 [/td2][td2] 312 [/td2][td2] 350,000 [/td2][td2] 243 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 5 Squads [/td2][td2] 0 [/td2][td2] [/td2][td2] 500 [/td2][td2] 1000 [/td2][td2] 720,000 [/td2][td2] 477 [/td2][td2] 341,600 [/td2][td2] 226 [/td2][/tr2]
[tr1][td2] 6 Squads [/td2][td2] 370 [/td2][td2] [/td2][td2] 250 [/td2][td2] 750 [/td2][td2] 534,800 [/td2][td2] 339 [/td2][td2] 239,200 [/td2][td2] 152 [/td2][/tr1]
[tr2][td2] 8 Squads [/td2][td2] 620 [/td2][td2] [/td2][td2] 500 [/td2][td2] 370 [/td2][td2] 341,600 [/td2][td2] 199 [/td2][td2] 130,000 [/td2][td2] 76 [/td2][/tr2]

 

[DeletedUser61]

We now have a benchmark snapshot for all 9 Relic Sector types.

• We'd like to know if other Accounts/Elves/Human see an identical sector, or merely a similar one
• We're anticipating that the Provincial Tournaments will be DIFFERENT than the regular sectors, and will perhaps vary from week to week by both type an composition, but chances are that they WON'T be different for each player, if there's any sort of competition.
• OR the Provincial Tournament sectors could be more or less difficult, depending on each player's Squad Size technology

There's still plenty that we need to know about how the developers set up the sectors. A player unique random seed is probably involved, so that the same player will get the same results but a different player will get different results, but I'm also guessing that the actual results are influenced by both relic type and distance.

While you can't tell just from looking at the above sectors

• My city in Chapter VII, and I've acquired around 140 sectors
• I've scouted around 160 sectors, because I needed access to unacquired sectors for the above research

Conclusions

1. Both Combat Difficulty and Negotiation Costs are linear over the 8 encounters per sector, but they are NOT correlated
2. As we've shown in the "Extremes" column, the ratio between the Difficulty of Combat and the Cost of Negotiation can vary by 500%
3. You CAN be stubborn and insist on all Combat or all Negotiation, but the smart money will

• Negotiate in the cheap sectors
• Toss a coin in the balanced sectors
• Fight in the easy sectors

 

[DeletedUser61]

People have scouted over 330 provinces. Why do you call 234 the limit?

• You'll have 130 Relic sectors if you've acquired the bare minimum sector count that you'll need to get into chapter VII.
• For each tessellation triple, 2 of the 27 sectors will be of the appropriate relic type, but we can simplify it by just looking at the Relic sectors. 1 of every 9 relic sectors will be of the same type.
• 130*9=14.4 Provincial Tournaments per week, if they're all available.
  (The more distant rings will have more sectors, and therefore more relic sectors)
• If you're getting 2 relics per Tournament that's 29 Relics per week
• Your accumulated total for the week contributes to the Weekly Payout as well, so if you have 200/29=7, ie 6 like minded neighbors, then EACH of you will get an additional Relic from each of the tournaments.
• 29+7=36 relics per week.
• 36 * 9 = 324 relics for a full cycle of 9 weeks.

As you indicated, quite a few folks have already acquired more than 130 sectors, so the above numbers are conservative for your own 29 relics per week, but it's pretty optimistic to think that you're going to have 6 like minded neighbors in all of your tournaments, and unless you get the checkpoint totals up to 200, at 29 or so per participant, nobody gets a bonus.

There's NOTHING to indicate that YOUR encounters will be graduated by the same factors as when you originally acquired those sectors, nor that you'll be seeing the same squad sizes that your neighbors are seeing, unless they happen to be at the same tech tree level. It may well be that ALL of the difficulties will be keyed to your own Squad Size technology, with only a modest near to far adjustment in the size of the defensive squads.

 

[DeletedUser61]

Forge of Empires has just release a Beta feature called Guild Expeditions, that appears to have many of the same features that we're expecting for our Provincial Tournaments. If you're curious, it's worth a look.

Spoiler: FoE Beta

https://forum.beta.forgeofempires.com/index.php?threads/guild-expeditions-are-here.5849/
In particular, the difficulty varies person by person, depending on where they are in their tech tree. You can attempt a maximum of 8 battles per session, and then you have to wait for several hours before you can try again. Some of the battles have two waves of defenders, but the FoE continent map has been that way for a while now.

Similarly, tournaments are now available in the Elvenar Beta.

Spoiler: Our Beta

There's not much point in providing a link to the announcement, because it doesn't say anything, nor has the Wiki information been released.

But once you've unlocked the related technology, in Beta Chapter II, you'll find several indication that the reward structure is wide open, including direct Ranking Points for Tournament Points.

As I anticipated, the difficulty of a tournament depends on YOUR squad size, but it's a bit of a surprise that ALL of the defending squads contain exactly squads. It also appears that there's two Tournament Points per ENCOUNTER, which is 8 times more than we anticipated. Sixteen Tournament Points per sector suggests that you'll only need one like-minded neighbor to kick your Checkpoint totals up over the 200 point threshold. I still have to run the numbers to see if the total weights vary. The "catering" costs are trivial, 73 Coins and 36 Supplies???? but I suspect that's a bug."

 

[DeletedUser61]

The developers have hit a Bullseye with the Provincial Tournaments. They're currently in Beta, and seem to be relatively bug-free, so we should be seeing them by the end of April.

• Tournaments are tuned to be quite a bit easier than the original acquisition of the sectors
• The nearest of the tournaments are medium easy, while the more distant tournaments are medium hard
• You can sequentially waltz through 1/9=11% of your acquired sectors.
  (All of your acquired relic sectors of the weekly type.)
• Four days every week
• Two Tournament Points per encounter plus Twenty per sector = 36 Tournament Points per sector
• If you wait 10 hours, you can do all of the tournaments again and get 4 Tournament Points per encounter, plus 50 per sector = 82 Tournament Points per sector. And so forth.
• You'll be getting Knowledge Point and Relics as well, and occasional Rune Shards have been popping up when sectors are completed.
• If you're in the top 100 when the tournaments are reset, once per week, you'll also get a few ranking points. 1st gets 100 ranking points, 100th gets 1 ranking points, which is pretty small potatoes. The extra KPs will have more of an effect, if they're contributed to an Ancient Wonder.

The folks who have been maximizing their rank by ignoring Ancient Wonders and Spells are going to be sucking wind. Required Workers plus Required Culture, maximized once every few months, can't possibly keep up with 15*36=540 additional points every 10 hours. The bonuses provided by the Ancient Wonders, and by the Spells, have suddenly become VERY important.

Your Tournament Scores do NOT aggregate across all of your tournaments. The above mentioned 36 points means that another 164 points will still be needed to get the 200 point bonus threshold for that particular tournament. While you "could" perhaps reach that goal by yourself with 36*6=216 points, which would require 6*10 =60 hours, the obvious intention is that you'll have 5 like-minded neighbors.

Now, here's the fun part.

• If you chew through your ENTIRE inventory of goods and troops this week, you're going to be in hurt status next week.
• Elvenar is now even MORE conducive to a relaxed playing style that includes plenty of recovery time.
• You should probably avoid spending Diamonds to revive your troops.

 

[DeletedUser43]

The folks who have been maximizing their rank by ignoring Ancient Wonders and Spells are going to be sucking wind. Required Workers plus Required Culture, maximized once every few months, can't possibly keep up with 15*36=540 additional points every 10 hours. The bonuses provided by the Ancient Wonders, and by the Spells, have suddenly become VERY important.

Huh? How are wonders or spells useful in the tournaments?

 

[DeletedUser61]

Huh? How are wonders or spells useful in the tournaments?

There won't be much point in trying to maximize the footprint score of your buildings, because that will be capped for months at a time. Optimizing your city for the goods and troops that you can USE in the Provincial Tournaments will, finally, become far more important.

Ancient Wonders and the Magic Academy are multipliers for all of the other buildings in your city. Building them doesn't immediately contribute to your score, but their long term effect just keeps growing.

Very much to the point, the Provincial Tournaments are mostly about putting in the time and effort. You can perhaps squeak through a tight spot by using Diamonds to revive troops, but it's not a viable long-term strategy. If you can't keep up with the Provincial Tournaments you'll have to either lower your expectations, retune your city, or both.

 

[DeletedUser43]

Optimizing your city for the goods and troops that you can USE in the Provincial Tournaments will, finally, become far more important.

Ancient Wonders and the Magic Academy are multipliers for all of the other buildings in your city. Building them doesn't immediately contribute to your score, but their long term effect just keeps growing.

Right...so as we have all been saying, only the dwarven wonders will do you any good because you get more goods and troops. The people who built the elven wonders will be "sucking wind" because those buildings COST you goods. They took your boosted relics and now you produce fewer goods than people who weren't suckered into them.

If you saved your space for more factories then you will do much better in the tournaments.

 

[DeletedUser]

I certainly don't claim to know any numbers like the two of you, so this is more of an inquiring statement. Although it does suck down some relics, could the martial monastery/sanctuary be more valuable now to extend the use of your troops by increasing their HP? It would seem on the surface that it would be helpful if you now would be burning through troops for both expansions and the tournaments.

 

[DeletedUser43]

You have a point there Overflow. That might be true. There are so many tournaments and it does take a toll on your troops after a while.

 

[DeletedUser1122]

There won't be much point in trying to maximize the footprint score of your buildings, because that will be capped for months at a time. Optimizing your city for the goods and troops that you can USE in the Provincial Tournaments will, finally, become far more important.

Sure hope you are wrong. I liked the game. The fighting sucks but I didn't do much of it. Maybe time to look for a city builder game.

 

[DeletedUser43]

6pac, you might like fighting in the tournaments. It is much easier than normal fighting. Plus, if you don't want to fight, you can negotiate super cheaply for the first few provinces. (A couple hundred coins and supplies). You get 2 kp per province you clear plus relics. If those relics happen to be your boosted relic then your boost goes up! woohoo! Pretty much everything you like about the game is about to get easier. I think you might like it.

 

[DeletedUser1122]

like-minded neighbors

How do you define a like-minded neighbor?

 

[DeletedUser61]

You're both interested in helping each other. You're stretching a bit further toward their city, and vis versa, than you might otherwise.

 

[DeletedUser1122]

I am still discovering provinces based on boosts. We have 5 fellowship players discovered and as such we are always helping each other.