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    Your Elvenar Team

Cancelled. After reading through it, this thread is irrecoverable.

sam767

Active Member
Sadly, the penultimate version was completely unambiguous. For some reason I backed off to a vague recommendation.
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Recommend updating the spire rewards system to have fewer Spell Fragment spells in the High Halls and none in the Laboratory.
Replacement rewards are open as long as they are easy for the devs to implement..
- Some have suggested troops, but those only help those who fight.
- Coin and supply instants are neutral, but I already have more than I will ever use. My guess this is true of players who routinely go to the top. But that is a guess.
- I like mana and gum trees. I have a large moonstone footprint that produces 72.6K mana for me every collection. My FS was critically short scrolls until Moonstone came along. My junior members are producing our current shortage item: Dust.
- I also like time instants.
- Teleport spells are always good. I used 31 to prep for the recently completed FA.
- No new rewards types are considered. This makes whatever the final recommendation is very easy to implement.

Detailed recommendation (to get the conversation going - the only strong opinions I have is nothing new, and fewer SFs.):
High Halls:
R1C3 replace 1250 with gum tree
R2C1 replace 500 with 30 min time instant (go from useless and annoying to slightly useful)
R2C3 replace 1250 with mana tree
R3C1 replace 500 with 30 min time instant
R3C4 replace 2000 with 5H
R4C1 replace 500 with 30 min time instant
R4C3 replace 1250 with mana tree
Laboratory:
Replace all 500 with 30 minute
Replace all 1000 with 1HR
Replace all 1250 with mana or gum tree
Replace all 2000 with 5H
 

AtaguS

Well-Known Member
I see no way to continue without either getting permission to change that line. Or cancelling the vote and starting over with a well-defined proposal. As the OP, @sam767 you have that option if you wish to start over.
Agreed. Reducing the frequency of spell fragments - having a more proportional to how they are distributed - is a worthy ask. It would be a shame to it go just because of wording issues. You'll need permission though
 

sam767

Active Member
The poll has been cancelled. I have cleaned up the wording in the suggestion. Removed the spoilers and added a link to the detailed suggestion that tried to replace like value for like value in a way that favored neither fighters nor negotiators. What do you all think about this wording?
TIA
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
Detailed recommendation (to get the conversation going - the only strong opinions I have is nothing new, and fewer SFs.):
High Halls:
R1C3 replace 1250 with gum tree
R2C1 replace 500 with 30 min time instant (go from useless and annoying to slightly useful)
R2C3 replace 1250 with mana tree
R3C1 replace 500 with 30 min time instant
R3C4 replace 2000 with 5H
R4C1 replace 500 with 30 min time instant
R4C3 replace 1250 with mana tree
Laboratory:
Replace all 500 with 30 minute
Replace all 1000 with 1HR
Replace all 1250 with mana or gum tree
Replace all 2000 with 5H
Time instants are cheap. And personally I'd steer away from trying to dictate specifics.

How about this?:
  • Gateway: Increase prevalence of Spell fragments by 10-25% Through adjusting quantities in middle-floors.
  • High Halls (Spire second level) Replace x of y (I haven't paid attention to the numbers) spell fragment prizes with alternate prizes, from some mix of instants for timers, coins, supplies, and troops plus additional catalysts.
  • Laboratory (Spire third level) Replace x of y spell fragment prizes with alternate prizes, primarily a mix of instants for Troops and timers, with some coins, supplies and catalysts and a small number of additional 1X1 building chances (gum and mana trees or other)
 
Last edited:

Pheryll

Well-Known Member
The poll has been cancelled. I have cleaned up the wording in the suggestion. Removed the spoilers and added a link to the detailed suggestion that tried to replace like value for like value in a way that favored neither fighters nor negotiators. What do you all think about this wording?
TIA
Here is what I understand the direction of the proposal to be.

1) The aim of the petition is to replace, rather than reduce. Spell fragments, specifically, are being replaced, not other rewards as well. The title could be amended to "Replace proportion of spell fragments in the spire in the HH and Lab." Also in the description change reduce to replace, and rewards to spell fragments.

2) From what I see, there is a consensus as to what to replace the spell fragments with. Specifically instants and summons. Examples of what to use where can be in a cited table or list. Remember spell fragments are your bargaining chip. Bargain out of strength and unity rather than indicating weakness and division.
 

sam767

Active Member
Here is what I understand the direction of the proposal to be.

1) The aim of the petition is to replace, rather than reduce. Spell fragments, specifically, are being replaced, not other rewards as well. The title could be amended to "Replace proportion of spell fragments in the spire in the HH and Lab." Also in the description change reduce to replace, and rewards to spell fragments.
Replace proportion is not quite right so I changed to replace portion. Good suggestion, thanks
 

AtaguS

Well-Known Member
Time instants are cheap. And personally I'd steer away from trying to dictate specifics.

How about this?:
  • Gateway: Increase prevalence of Spell fragments by 10-25% Through adjusting quantities in middle-floors.
  • High Halls (Spire second level) Replace x of y (I haven't paid attention to the numbers) spell fragment prizes with alternate prizes, from some mix of instants for timers, coins, supplies, and troops plus additional catalysts.
  • Laboratory (Spire second level) Replace x of y spell fragment prizes with alternate prizes, primarily a mix of instants for Troops and timers, with some coins, supplies and catalysts and a small number of additional 1X1 building chances (gum and mana trees or other)
I like this... clear and to the point
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
It all still feels way too complicated for the way the devs work. I would be for something simple, such as "replace all spell fragment prizes on the third floor". Dont give them specific demands for replacement prizes. And remember, any changes will be for all the players on all the servers, not just here in the US, so they have to make sure any changes are acceptable everywhere.
 

Dividius

New Member
I am a new player currently at L4. I have an L4 MA as well. I have had a few times when I was out of fragments. At this point, I am still hoping for more spell fragments. From other games, I have had an opportunity to choose between two items. Perhaps a simple choice would work. One solution could be vision vapor. Of course one spell fragment would not equal 1 vision vapor, but perhaps 150-200 spell fragments could equal one vision vapor.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
I am a new player currently at L4. I have an L4 MA as well. I have had a few times when I was out of fragments. At this point, I am still hoping for more spell fragments. From other games, I have had an opportunity to choose between two items. Perhaps a simple choice would work. One solution could be vision vapor. Of course one spell fragment would not equal 1 vision vapor, but perhaps 150-200 spell fragments could equal one vision vapor.
This is why I lean to more fragments on the first floor and fewer on the other floors. I think there are still some people who need more, not less, though it's hard for me to imagine, personally.
 

Risen Malchiah

Well-Known Member
Time instants are cheap. And personally I'd steer away from trying to dictate specifics.

How about this?:
  • Gateway: Increase prevalence of Spell fragments by 10-25% Through adjusting quantities in middle-floors.
  • High Halls (Spire second level) Replace x of y (I haven't paid attention to the numbers) spell fragment prizes with alternate prizes, from some mix of instants for timers, coins, supplies, and troops plus additional catalysts.
  • Laboratory (Spire second level) Replace x of y spell fragment prizes with alternate prizes, primarily a mix of instants for Troops and timers, with some coins, supplies and catalysts and a small number of additional 1X1 building chances (gum and mana trees or other)
I like this. Increased prevalence of spell fragments in Gateway with a gradual phasing out of spell fragments as a prize by the third level.

I agree we should avoid saying exactly which prizes to swap and where. Let the devs decide what to replace the fragments with, but we can offer a list of possible alternatives for them:
- Time boosts (a favorite of many, though the devs may not wish to increase this further)
- Troop instants (a new prize for the Spire and could make it more attractive for some players)
- Teleports in the the upper level. (Those going to the end are the same players likely to use 30+ teleports in a single Fellowship Adventure.)
- Additional opportunities for Moonstone set buildings and/or introduction of a new set that compliments it (ie, other boosts)

Remove the "no consensus" part and change that to something that lists the various possible alternatives to spell fragments for the upper tiers.
 

Darielle

Well-Known Member
The poll has been cancelled. I have cleaned up the wording in the suggestion. Removed the spoilers and added a link to the detailed suggestion that tried to replace like value for like value in a way that favored neither fighters nor negotiators. What do you all think about this wording?
TIA
I think it's a huge improvement, Sam. Of course, no matter what you do, there will be some who aren't happy. Just know you did your best to address an important issue and pat yourself on the back. :)
 

Darielle

Well-Known Member
Time instants are cheap. And personally I'd steer away from trying to dictate specifics.

How about this?:
  • Gateway: Increase prevalence of Spell fragments by 10-25% Through adjusting quantities in middle-floors.
  • High Halls (Spire second level) Replace x of y (I haven't paid attention to the numbers) spell fragment prizes with alternate prizes, from some mix of instants for timers, coins, supplies, and troops plus additional catalysts.
  • Laboratory (Spire second level) Replace x of y spell fragment prizes with alternate prizes, primarily a mix of instants for Troops and timers, with some coins, supplies and catalysts and a small number of additional 1X1 building chances (gum and mana trees or other)
Great idea, but make sure you change the typo for the lab to third level, not second. Other than that, I think it's perfect! :)
 

Yogi Dave

Well-Known Member
The idea is to replace some spell fragments in the high halls and laboratory with other rewards. It's also being suggested to increase the spell fragments in the gateway. Increasing the number of frags in the gateway is important for those who are new to the spire or, for one reason or another, can't progress higher in it. That is something I very much agree with. If this is to be included in the proposal, it must also be stated the amount offered in the upper stages must be less than what is added in the gateway, otherwise those of us who are getting hundreds of thousands of SFs will just end up with more, which is more of an annoyance than a problem.
  • High Halls (Spire second level) Replace x of y (I haven't paid attention to the numbers) spell fragment prizes with alternate prizes, from some mix of instants for timers, coins, supplies, and troops plus additional catalysts.
  • Laboratory (Spire second level) Replace x of y spell fragment prizes with alternate prizes, primarily a mix of instants for Troops and timers, with some coins, supplies and catalysts and a small number of additional 1X1 building chances (gum and mana trees or other)
I think it would be better to express the replace as a percentage instead of x of y. Also @sam767 has suggested replacing all frags in the lab with other rewards. I think that is the better than just some of them, especially since the object is to reduce the increase of frags to a mere trickle of what it is now.
 

Ashrem

Well-Known Member
Also @sam767 has suggested replacing all frags in the lab with other rewards. I think that is the better than just some of them, especially since the object is to reduce the increase of frags to a mere trickle of what it is now.
The equation X/Y is both more unambiguous than a percentage, and does not preclude X and Y being the same number on the third level. At the same time, it is less dictatorial than saying "R2C3 replace 1250 with [prize]" so allows for the devs more perceived freedom to balance according to their formulae.
 

CrazyWizard

Well-Known Member
Screenshot_20200630-151537~2.png

I still respectfully disagree with this whole topic, this is a screenshot of my 2nd main account under a different name on a world that opened past September / October. It has a level 5 academy, level 4 builder since the start and I own many premium expansions and I play 2 levels a week in the spire.

Yet I am not drowning in spell fragments, 2 weeks ago I even had to be picky since I ran under 6k fragments.

An account like this would be doomed with a deduction in spell fragments
 

SoulsSilhouette

Well-Known Member
View attachment 8082
I still respectfully disagree with this whole topic, this is a screenshot of my 2nd main account under a different name on a world that opened past September / October. It has a level 5 academy, level 4 builder since the start and I own many premium expansions and I play 2 levels a week in the spire.

Yet I am not drowning in spell fragments, 2 weeks ago I even had to be picky since I ran under 6k fragments.

An account like this would be doomed with a deduction in spell fragments
some long time players... the 'collectors' if you will, had so many spells and items in inventory to disenchant that they don't need spell fragments. They get more spells from the tournaments and visiting, so they are not 'scraping' for any of that. It is easy to forget as we get deep into the game how challenging it can be to just get what you need to research or upgrade. I have a city on every world and it keeps me aware of the differences. What some people find to be of negligible value, others need for the way they play. There are ways to do things that won't hurt new cities. I'm just hoping that the nerfing will not commence yet again to derail my current set ups. Although, as in the past, I always seem to be negatively impacted when those changes are made, some of which I am still recovering from two years later.