Catering/Negotiating Only Cities.

[Alram]

@Aritra All catering threads get derailed.
I'm always glad that no one can actually come burn my city down. I love Elvenar!

 

[SoggyShorts]

I am pretty sure the brains around here about this kind of stuff, @MinMax Gamer and @SoggyShorts , have said the mountain halls is not worth building.

Right, but those brains walked away at the title! For a catering city the mountain halls is on the must have list.
Way below the GA

For the record, I did not say that the Mountain halls isn't worth building except in the extreme cases where a player has almost zero factories.
In fact, I made a calculator long ago that shows just how much better the MtH are than the GA.

Before the new tournament system the only relevant question for wonders was:
"Does it give me more stuff that I need per square than other options?"
The question remains the same, but the math just got a little more complex.
Even in the new formula though, the Mountain Halls is a winner.

E.G.
At a moderate level 6 it gives a 48% boost to T1-3.
Assuming you have 500 relics, that's a true increase of 7% (848/800)
That +7% in Basic Goods easily offsets the 1.8% increase in Spire/Tournament costs from AW levels. (0.3*6)

 

[SoggyShorts]

The goods boost from the mountain hall is garbage. The percent it adds is deceptive. If it says 200% bonus, the first 100% is your base production, so it is really only adding 100%. Next, that 100% is added to your relic boost bonus, which mean you are getting 100% extra of your base, not 100% extra of that 700% relic boost.

Funny, this is the EXACT same situation as I tried to explain to you with your deceptive view that a Dwarven armorer gives you +50% HP even if you have a Martial Monastery.
Or that a ELR building gives you +50% archer damage even if you have a Needles of the tempest.

Does this mean you get it now?

building it for the goods bonus will always be a waste.

Do you have any math to back that up?
An actual comparison of the footprint taken by the wonder + the formula impact the AW levels have
vs
The production size of T1,T2,T3 buildings on a per square basis

Would be a good start.

 

[Iyapo1]

that shows just how much better the MtH are than the GA.

See, there you go ignoring all those "intangibles"!

Nothing can compete with first love. Ever.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Nothing can compete with first love. Ever.

Pfft.
Let's see, a sweet-ass rollercoaster vs a literal pit...tough call

 

[Alram]

It is a tough call, I'm just going to go with both.

 

[Lelanya]

@The Unbeliever
Most of the folks who work at InnoGames admit to barely scratching the surface of the Sentient chapters.

 

[Sprite1313]

@Aritra All catering threads get derailed.
I'm always glad that no one can actually come burn my city down. I love Elvenar!

LOL.

To get back to your original question - would you want a catering only fellowship? What if you don't end up liking many people in the FS? Or they never chat? I personally wouldn't want to restrict any player from playing the way they want, as long as they contribute to the group success of the FS. If you are a fighting city who refuses to do the spire (I'm in a gold spire FS), then you wouldn't be a good fit for my group. If you contribute to spire, tourney and FAs, I don't care how you get there.

 

[Iyapo1]

It is a tough call, I'm just going to go with both.

Me too!

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Funny, this is the EXACT same situation as I tried to explain to you with your deceptive view that a Dwarven armorer gives you +50% HP even if you have a Martial Monastery.
Or that a ELR building gives you +50% archer damage even if you have a Needles of the tempest.

Does this mean you get it now?

Do you have any math to back that up?
An actual comparison of the footprint taken by the wonder + the formula impact the AW levels have
vs
The production size of T1,T2,T3 buildings on a per square basis

Would be a good start.

Nope. Two different situations and two different formulas, so not the same at all.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Nope. Two different situations and two different formulas, so not the same at all.

100% the same.
You say that a 5-day building gives +50% ignoring other factors that affect the outcome
That directly contradicts your statement that the MtH doesn't give +100% because the relics change that.
Since the relics bonus is "always on" and so is the bonus from the MM/needles, they are indeed the exact same thing.
BTW, nice job telling everyone how to play their game in such a rude way, you'd almost fully recovered from that time you said that any decent person would give at least $X to inno after playing.
Solid move.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Are there any cater only fellowships?

The only issue I have with cater-only cities is the bottleneck in a crisis.

If you have no military ability you can get "stuck" much more easily in the Spire.
Your ability to instantly make seeds or orcs (and mana until you get a dragon abbey) is almost nil whereas a fighter who runs out of troops can at least use some timers to make more.

If you keep a big enough stash that this never becomes an issue, well then there's no issue.

 

[Alram]

My question was mainly out of curiosity. I like that everyone can play their own way.

 

[Deleted User - 849281086]

The only issue I have with cater-only cities is the bottleneck in a crisis.

If you have no military ability you can get "stuck" much more easily in the Spire.
Your ability to instantly make seeds or orcs (and mana until you get a dragon abbey) is almost nil whereas a fighter who runs out of troops can at least use some timers to make more.

If you keep a big enough stash that this never becomes an issue, well then there's no issue.

He said cater only FS not city. The title was a throw off.

Cater only cities are the easiest thing in the world to play even for spire as Alram can tell you.

Cater only FS is what the thread is about... wow... that has to be the subtlest derailing of a thread i have ever seen Soggy.

Maybe that other guy was right... ALL cater only threads get derailed. Multiple times each thread maybe even.

I don't even think people know they are derailing a thread... just happens like they are hypnotized in to derailing or something.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Cater only FS is what the thread is about... wow... that has to be the subtlest derailing of a thread i have ever seen Soggy.

No.
As a FS leader, I was answering appropriately.
@Alram asked if there are catering-only FS. I explained a possible issue with catering-only cities of which a catering-only FS must be made- it's relevant.

Cater only cities are the easiest thing in the world to play even for spire as Alram can tell you.

In some chapters, sure, but as I pointed out, mana, seeds, and orcs change things.

I don't even think people know they are derailing a thread... just happens like they are hypnotized in to derailing or something.

Or perhaps since the question was "Are there Cater only FS?" and no one has seen one the thread would totally die if the conversation didn't expand at least a little?

Or should we limit responses in threads that ask a question to "Yes" and "No" only?

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

100% the same.
You say that a 5-day building gives +50% ignoring other factors that affect the outcome
That directly contradicts your statement that the MtH doesn't give +100% because the relics change that.
Since the relics bonus is "always on" and so is the bonus from the MM/needles, they are indeed the exact same thing.

BTW, nice job telling everyone how to play their game in such a rude way, you'd almost fully recovered from that time you said that any decent person would give at least $X to inno after playing.
Solid move.

Mountain Halls gives you what it says it does, after your remove the deceptive way that Inno lists percents. If it says 200%, then 100% of that is your base, and the AW gives you 100%. This AW gives you that bonus on your base even if your relic boost bonus was somehow 0%. Put your mouse over your productions in your normal boosted factories and you will see it lists three things: your base production amount, the relic boost bonus production, and the AW bonus production. If you have a base production of 100 marble, for example, and the max relic boost of 700%, and a level 17 MtH for that example 200%, those three numbers would say 100, 700, and 100, for a total production of 900, not some other amount you are trying to say it should be.

As for the other comment, if someone refuses to pay any money ever, not just because they can't afford it or haven't decided yet if Inno deserves it, and then gloats or brags about it, then yes, they are scummy people. You and your wife don't spend money on the game, I think you have said, but you also don't run around bragging about it, saying how awesome you are and how awful Inno is, so you are not the target is my dislike. I did not spend money for the first time on the game until I had been playing for almost two years. And that was when I decided I had gotten enough enjoyment out of the game, and was going to keep playing, that I figured that the devs had earned $5 or $10 on the times I got the 100% extra diamond offers, or maybe about $50 a year since then.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Enevhar Aldarion

Spoiler: You are still wrong and here's why

Mountain Halls gives you what it says it does, after your remove the deceptive way that Inno lists percents.

No it still doesn't, because of this:

The percent it adds is deceptive. If it says 200% bonus, the first 100% is your base production, so it is really only adding 100%. Next, that 100% is added to your relic boost bonus, which mean you are getting 100% extra of your base, not 100% extra of that 700% relic boost.

This is the truly deceptive part and your own words prove that you grasp the concept and understand the deception, now you just need to apply that knowledge:
Why it's exactly the same as the ELR+ needles:

The question is always "What will adding this thing give me?"

• The truth is that a mountain halls with a 200% listing gives not a 200% increase nor a 100% increase, but a 12.5% increase because you were already making 100+700=800 and going from 800 to 900 is a 12.5% increase.
• Exactly like how adding 2 ELR buildings to a city with a level 30 needles does NOT give a 100% increase in damage, but rather a 71% increase because you were already doing 100+40 = 140 and going from 140 to 240 is a 71% increase.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

@Enevhar Aldarion

Spoiler: You are still wrong and here's why

No it still doesn't, because of this:

This is the truly deceptive part and why it's exactly the same as the ELR+ needles.
The question is always "What will adding this give me?"

The truth is that a mountain halls with a 200% listing gives not a 200% increase nor a 100% increase, but a 12.5% increase because you were already making 100+700=800 and going from 800 to 900 is a 12.5% increase.

Exactly like how adding 2 ELR buildings to a city with a level 30 needles does NOT give a 100% increase in damage, but rather a 71% increase because you were already doing 100+40 = 140 and going from 140 to 240 is a 71% increase.

The base is the base is the base. Nothing extra put out changes the base, always-on or not. If you want to call it a modified base, while Inno does not, that is on you.

 

[SoggyShorts]

The base is the base is the base.

Then why would you call out the MtHalls bonus for not applying to the relic number, and only the base? Hypocritical.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

Then why would you call out the MtHalls bonus for not applying to the relic number, and only the base? Hypocritical.

This all started purely to make sure people understood that the MtH bonus was not as good as they thought it was because it does not give a bonus of the relic boost, but only of the original base amount. Plenty of people before have thought that and were very disappointed when they found out differently.