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    Your Elvenar Team

Cathedral play?

Hi, i am a AM and have a player that wants to play cathedral instead of military. 1 i havent hear this term before but she is from a different country and they could call something different. I believe its just goods. 2nd is there any viability to this type of play? she is in orcs and is having issues climbing to the top of the spire. if anyone has any suggestions i can give her on this type of play i would greatly appreciate it. she isnt interested in building up her military but until i find or not find info to help her i wont be able to help her switch play style.
 

AnselSkye

Member
It could be a mistranslation of "catering," i.e. negotiating. She'll probably focus on building up goods rather than troops.

Edit: To help her with that playstyle, I would make sure she is only producing boosted goods and trading for the rest. Make sure she has all her manufactories leveled up.
 

MaidenFair

Chef - Head Philologist
'Cathedral' sounds to me like a variant of 'spire'. Are you sure she isn't just saying she wants to focus on the Spire (perhaps at the expense of tournament)?

Either way, there is absolutely viability to this style of play, at least through Orcs (that's as far as I've gotten yet). I'm a caterer in Orcs, and I top the Spire every week and have a tournament average of 4000. I also have the freedom to play multiple times a day; I don't know if it would be possible for someone who only runs 9-hr productions, or checks in once a day. You might not be able to produce enough goods under those circumstances, or at least would have to rely very heavily on MM spells and fast-tracking Wonders like the Bell Spire/Crystal Lighthouse, or Mountain Halls.

Make sure she has all her manufactories leveled up.

Actually, as a caterer at this level currently, this is bad advice. The manufactories (at least all the ones I've run the math on) actually get significantly less efficient when upgrading from level 15 to 16 and stay that way for a number of chapters. It's completely counterintuitive but it actually saves space in a city to only upgrade to between 9 and 15 (depending on the particular manufactory type and the people/space balance that one has available) and then just add another manufactory if more production is needed. I can produce the math to back this up later when I have more time, if anyone wants to see it.
 

Iyapo1

Well-Known Member
@JerseyMeeko76, chapter 9 catering city here, gold spire 8k tournament average. This is absolutely a viable playstyle.

Quick tips, if she has no interest in military buildup she should replace all armories with orcs nests. Sell off the mercenary camp and the training grounds. The excess space and population can be used to build more manufactories to whatever level @MaidenFair's charts show as most productive...also catering cities need fewer workshops which will free up more space and population for manufactories.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
I cater the Spire to the top each week. I'm in Chapter 18 but started when the Spire started...probably Chapter 13-15 somewhere. The cost is high but not so high if you work the logic of the chests carefully. My methods result in my spending about 1.2 times more than the actual costs if I hit every chest in three tries. That and about 125-150 diamonds which make back from my fs silver level and the occasional winnings in the Spire itself.

In general when I cater I work from the left to the right in the first round, matching one good to each guard and rotating to the front (far left, coins) if there are more guards than goods. I then count the satisfied guards (green checked) and give them one point. Then I look for the "not needed" -- the greyed out goods in the goods I have to offer -- and they get two points. If the number of points from these two sources is more than or equal to the number of goods I originally had to offer, I continue. Less, well, sometimes I continue, but most of the time not. I start again. If you have just 3 goods to offer at the beginning you should never start over unless you accidentally offered the same good to the same guard twice. But even you can usually win in the third round. You can almost always win the 4 goods level if you just load your choices from the left AND, check before you try to see that you haven't offered the same thing to the same guard as you did in the first round. Usually with 4 goods the third round comes up with two or three "wrong person" and that's almost always something you can figure out. On occassion you'll get two "wrong person" and one "not needed." Process of elimination will fill two of the three and often leave you with the third guard having two possiblities. Count the number of times each of the two has been accepted. The lowest is the one you use. If they are tied? Offer the one the farthest to the left...usually coins or supplies.

All the above applies to starting with 5 goods to offer so long as you remember that after the first round you will need the points from the "not needed" and "satisfied guards" to add up to 5 -- the number of goods you have to offer at the beginning.

Ditto for 6 goods, though the "success" rate drops a bit and you will need to carefully consider if you should continue if the count is 5. Ideally it should be 6 or above. 7 should be 7 or above, but since that takes a lot of roles you may need to use the free thing for one guard or spend 25 coins for an extra try. I usually save the 25 for the two top bosses and when I try more than twice on one of the third tier 6 goods chests.

In the end, I believe, the first two levels of the Spire are pretty easily won so long as you use logic and are systematic. The third level is harder, but not insurmountable so long as you are willing to spend another 20% to start over once about 1/2 of the time when doing 6 goods chests (i.e. everything but the gates and the boss), and spend 25-75 diamonds.

That's how I cater the spire to the top. There are details about choices to make and the logic which I did not include but it works for me.

AJ
 
@JerseyMeeko76, chapter 9 catering city here, gold spire 8k tournament average. This is absolutely a viable playstyle.

Quick tips, if she has no interest in military buildup she should replace all armories with orcs nests. Sell off the mercenary camp and the training grounds. The excess space and population can be used to build more manufactories to whatever level @MaidenFair's charts show as most productive...also catering cities need fewer workshops which will free up more space and population for manufactories.
[/QUOTE
thank you sooo much i will go back with all this info and give it to her so she can figure out what kind of direction she wants to go with!!!!
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
Actually, as a caterer at this level currently, this is bad advice. The manufactories (at least all the ones I've run the math on) actually get significantly less efficient when upgrading from level 15 to 16 and stay that way for a number of chapters. It's completely counterintuitive but it actually saves space in a city to only upgrade to between 9 and 15 (depending on the particular manufactory type and the people/space balance that one has available) and then just add another manufactory if more production is needed. I can produce the math to back this up later when I have more time, if anyone wants to see it.

Yes, I'd like to see it, thanks!
 

Darielle

Chef, Scroll-Keeper, and Buddy Fan Club Member
Okay! I'm not a spreadsheet wizard like so many around here, so it might take me a little bit to get my old-school pen-and-paper calculations into an understandable online format, but I'll get on it. :)
No worries, and if it's too much trouble I don't want to put you out. It just sounds fascinating, that's all. :)
 
I cater the Spire to the top each week. I'm in Chapter 18 but started when the Spire started...probably Chapter 13-15 somewhere. The cost is high but not so high if you work the logic of the chests carefully. My methods result in my spending about 1.2 times more than the actual costs if I hit every chest in three tries. That and about 125-150 diamonds which make back from my fs silver level and the occasional winnings in the Spire itself.

In general when I cater I work from the left to the right in the first round, matching one good to each guard and rotating to the front (far left, coins) if there are more guards than goods. I then count the satisfied guards (green checked) and give them one point. Then I look for the "not needed" -- the greyed out goods in the goods I have to offer -- and they get two points. If the number of points from these two sources is more than or equal to the number of goods I originally had to offer, I continue. Less, well, sometimes I continue, but most of the time not. I start again. If you have just 3 goods to offer at the beginning you should never start over unless you accidentally offered the same good to the same guard twice. But even you can usually win in the third round. You can almost always win the 4 goods level if you just load your choices from the left AND, check before you try to see that you haven't offered the same thing to the same guard as you did in the first round. Usually with 4 goods the third round comes up with two or three "wrong person" and that's almost always something you can figure out. On occassion you'll get two "wrong person" and one "not needed." Process of elimination will fill two of the three and often leave you with the third guard having two possiblities. Count the number of times each of the two has been accepted. The lowest is the one you use. If they are tied? Offer the one the farthest to the left...usually coins or supplies.

All the above applies to starting with 5 goods to offer so long as you remember that after the first round you will need the points from the "not needed" and "satisfied guards" to add up to 5 -- the number of goods you have to offer at the beginning.

Ditto for 6 goods, though the "success" rate drops a bit and you will need to carefully consider if you should continue if the count is 5. Ideally it should be 6 or above. 7 should be 7 or above, but since that takes a lot of roles you may need to use the free thing for one guard or spend 25 coins for an extra try. I usually save the 25 for the two top bosses and when I try more than twice on one of the third tier 6 goods chests.

In the end, I believe, the first two levels of the Spire are pretty easily won so long as you use logic and are systematic. The third level is harder, but not insurmountable so long as you are willing to spend another 20% to start over once about 1/2 of the time when doing 6 goods chests (i.e. everything but the gates and the boss), and spend 25-75 diamonds.

That's how I cater the spire to the top. There are details about choices to make and the logic which I did not include but it works for me.

AJ
yes we have 2 catering videos and guide that do that very way of catering. thank you so much. i am curious how many factories you have. what world are you in? i would love to be able to see your city to help my player set up for success. what kind of AW's things like that.
 

Fiona Selah

Well-Known Member
I have been switching my city to catering for a couple of months now. But my biggest problem is that I was unaware (my main perpetual state of being) of how much gaining expansions would impact the amount of goods/troops it takes to do well in the tourneys and spire. I don't know what to do now or if I can fix this.
 

ajqtrz

Chef - loquacious Old Dog
yes we have 2 catering videos and guide that do that very way of catering. thank you so much. i am curious how many factories you have. what world are you in? i would love to be able to see your city to help my player set up for success. what kind of AW's things like that.

Khelonar I have 15 steel factories at the moment since it's after the FA. Usually I have 6 steel, 2 Scroll and 2 Core Cracking gems (for sentient goods). I also have a very large moonstone library farm that gives me a lot of silk.

AJ
 

Hueanthar

Well-Known Member
I have been switching my city to catering for a couple of months now. But my biggest problem is that I was unaware (my main perpetual state of being) of how much gaining expansions would impact the amount of goods/troops it takes to do well in the tourneys and spire. I don't know what to do now or if I can fix this.

Ouch. (As in I feel your pain.) I started out as a catering city but expanded as much as possible as quickly as possible. When Spire and tournament difficulty was changed, I quickly realized I should not have expanded as much. I've been forced to fight some now since I now can't do them by catering alone. I don't expand anymore so have quite a few research and province expansions I've not placed because I can't afford the resulting increased Spire and tournament difficulty.
 
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