Changes to the Ancient Wonders Rewards coming with game version 1.52

[DeletedUser15113]

I for one don't mine taking a few KP hit for a full bar if that means I can still use that KP on the tech tree. I try to split those rewards between the tech tree and helping with more wonders. Restricting those rewards to wonders only is going to make advancing in tech come to a crawl.

I'm just into the dwarf chapter and learning the joys of waiting on the granite. Hopefully I'm just newb and my fears are unwarranted as I'll soon be tech locked anyways waiting on granite and copper and those things won't get better in later chapters...

Still I like the ability to be able to jockey for position in the ranks using 1-2 Kp, in stead of 5 KP (at least) chunks at a time. This also restricts the number of wonders I can donate too as well. Yeah, can still use my own hourly KP for that but that means I have to sacrifice tech advancement because the return can only be spent on wonders. Its like buying a raffle ticket with cash and winning a gift card to a place you don't go to.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I'm just into the dwarf chapter and learning the joys of waiting on the granite. Hopefully I'm just newb and my fears are unwarranted as I'll soon be tech locked anyways waiting on granite and copper and those things won't get better in later chapters..

Yep, that's pretty much it- You'll be techlocked anyways, so there's very little harm in getting KP rewards that can only be used in wonders. Getting far bigger rewards( about 80% more) should mean faster wonder levelling, and that will help any city.

 

[DeletedUser15113]

Will have to see how it all works out, but still feel this will hurt players like me over all. However, I'm most likely in the vast minority so I guess this is more of just a venting as the minority isnt a consideration usually.

Hope they at least adopt your idea of just using all 5 KP instants. I make my kp by donating to quantity not quality. Takes a lot of effort (typically 30-45 minutes) to find bases to spread just 8-9 kp around (trying to avoid hitting 10 and restarting the clock) but the return has been nice! But now, the return can only go into wonder and at large chunks. Specially if the return is a single 20 or 30 KP instant. That could have been used so many places...now just one. Being able to spread the 5 KP instants around would help, but still now investing a minimum of 5 per wonder when I could hit on rewards of 10 or 30 at the cost of 1-2 KP aa of now. Therefore the 80% larger reward doesn't equal out if I have to invest 150-250% more at a time. Even a 1 Kp investment for a return of 5 was useful. Plus if I happen to invest in a base that is inactive then I just flat out lose 5 Kp instead of 1.

But again, based on the effort to find that many cities to invest in I'm assuming most people dont do this so inno wont care. Just frustrating that this will chance how I have to play the game. Might need to rebuild that tome of secrets now just to get that extra kp per day.

 

[SoggyShorts]

However, I'm most likely in the vast minority......I make my kp by donating to quantity not quality. Takes a lot of effort (typically 30-45 minutes) to find bases to spread just 8-9 kp around (trying to avoid hitting 10 and restarting the clock) but the return has been nice!

Indeed, I would say that fewer than 1% of players constantly try to snipe rewards like that. Doing map visits or cycling quests and using the coins to buy KP would probably give a higher and more consistent return for the time and effort.

 

[kctanzen]

Very low on the game experience factor (one city, got into orcs just before the Spring 2018 event) -- I don't think this will impact too many folks, other than the spenders who have every premium expansion pre dwarf level. I'm a very active player and it was only until dwarfs did I even bump up against the tech lock issue, other than voluntarily doing it to boost up my Abyss. Until later in dwarfs, when I was probably a bit light on mines anyway, I was right at where I needed to be with KP / guest goods .. even allowing that I shunted quite a bit of KP over to the Abyss. I have been mining the tourneys as best I can and I'm rather glad I got through most of Fairies before the chest changes were made. Yes, it slowed down my wonders but it did allow me to push hard enough when the Spring event got close to rush up and get orcs flagged for slightly better event prizes.

As long as the province rewards themselves (tourney and main map) remain popping into the regular KP bar, this ought to work out just peachy.
Example: I have at least 17 of every province unlocked for tourneys (lots of scouting, more plots in my city to offset my less than stellar city zoning committee). If I clear the first two rounds of the first 16 provinces in tourneys (gets cost prohibitive after that), I'm getting somewhere on the order of 75ish KP, plus hourly KP. I circle back as the timer resets and hit the first 8 or so provinces to mine more goodies,dipping into the 2nd page as well as army / goods allows. If my math is correct, that is somewhere near 200 KP a week in the bar - seems to be more than enough to keep up with the famously slow guest worker production.

Bonus 1: Wonder levels keep stacking up nicely, and those buildings have some pretty awesome force multiplier effects for cities,
Added (un)intended bonus -- sneakily could encourage more active participation in tourneys to get more of those KP icons as folks really get the understanding how effective the wonders are in the grand scheme of things.

 

[DeletedUser15113]

Sniping? That's sounds so negative. Rarely am I actually bumping people out. Trying not to be rude about it. Which is probably why it takes so long to find the cities... There are a number of cities, if you look for them, that have open spots that would just go to waste if no one donated.

I still cycle quests and buy kp occasionally, but at 200k a pop now that's expensive. Hard to maintain building upgrades and a ton of kp buying. Also participate in every tourny even the non-boost ones for the kp. At least the individual rounds still give general kp, even though the chests were hurt. Our fellowship usually only gets 4-5 chests so the 10 KP wasn't a big deal. Have enjoyed the boost there even though it's only for wonders. Try to keep my provinces within the chapter recommendations though to help with the costs. But all of that is not affected by this update and can currently be done in addition to "sniping", so not sure how buying kp is relevant alternative.

 

[DeletedUser15113]

In the end my "sniping" might be rare among players and I get that. I know my complaint carries little weight. But seriouslly (but not really), what update wouldn't be complete without a niche player b!itching about how the update hurts them.

Seriously though (I mean it this time) I do think it would he nice if the rewards could at least be broken up into multiples of 5 KP (or less) instants so I'm not forced to spend 30 all in one place. That will help out more than just niche players like me.

 

[samidodamage]

buy kp occasionally, but at 200k a pop now that's expensive

Just to let you know, I'm now in Woodelves, my next kp will cost 700K+, and I still buy 4-6/day. Your coin production shouldn't be a problem as it scales up with new chapters/upgrades. The key to staying viable for 'buy kp' quests in events is to never buy kp with your boosted goods except for an event quest (or maybe to finish up Advanced Scouts to get better rewards from event buildings).

 

[SoggyShorts]

Sniping? That's sounds so negative.

It's not. It's not easy to bump someone out of a reward spot without spending more KP than you get back, so I didn't think that was what you are doing on a regular basis. There's plenty of players that level wonders solo, and when you said you are getting rewards with 1-2 KP, I assumed that's where you are getting them from.
With the increased rewards, putting in the time to search for open spots should actually give you better payoffs than before, even if you have to use a 5 KP instant, getting 35 KP instead of 20 is still a net improvement for you.
More reward slots being left open, and bigger rewards... sounds like this change should be a real upgrade for someone who puts in the time to find those spots.

Seriously though (I mean it this time) I do think it would he nice if the rewards could at least be broken up into multiples of 5 KP

I am all for this. I see no downside to ALL KP instants being 5 KP each.

so not sure how buying kp is relevant alternative.

Do you do all of your map visits every day? My idea was just that if you don't, you should be able to spend less time looking for wonder spots and replace that time with doing those visits and spend that coin on KP. I have no idea how many KP you've been getting from wonders, nor how often you do all possible visits- just making guesses based on no info

 

[DeletedUser15113]

Yeah, I get that I'll receive more kp after the update, but is it wonder KP. For example, I woke up this morning after 6 hours with 31 KP. I hit on 30 KP rewards. So, I "lost" 5 from having a full bar. With an 80% bump, I probably wake up with 6 kp in my bar and 55ish in wonder kp. So yeah, lots more kp! However, I sunk all 31 in a tech I needed so I can advance. Once the update hits, I only add 6 instead of 31 to my tech tree. Will take me a full day to make up that differnce. So while wonder advancement will greatly speed up, tech advancement will greatly slow down. People keep mentioning other sources of kp like buying and tournaments, but that's already in the game, being used and not changing so factoring those in doesn't make sense. This change just seems to be catering more to advanced players who become techlocked more and working on upgrading wonders. It may hurt new players trying to get to the point where they can even become tech locked. But maybe that is their goal, slow down the tech advancement so the
Players dont reach the end as quickly.

 

[DeletedUser15113]

Oh I didn't provide some info you said you were lacking in the last post. I do complete all my visits every day. It took about a week before the hits became consistent but now I typically get at least 20 KP back per day, on a "bad" day. The most I've gotten back is 135 in one day. Average is around 30-35. This is off an 8-9 KP per day investment. So has been quite profitable. But I'm very selective on donate sites trying to ensure a higher probability of getting a reward, hence the larger time investment. I'm an extremely active player with allows me to do collections at a high rate to keep up with the cost of the tech advances. Which again, probably puts me in the minority.

I am starting to come to terms with this nowth after writing all this out. I do struggle with finding the space for these massive wonders since most need to be upgraded several times to complete on a per square ratio. Speeding up their upgrades will help make them worth putting out. Even if that does mean the tech slows some... still think I'd rather have the faster tech, but can see the benefits of the changes from a wonder standpoint...

 

[DeletedUser6375]

Overall i think this is a good change. I typically run a "Inspiring Mediation" scroll 24/7 just so i don't miss out on kp, but even with that, i've hit 20+ kp in an overnight and still lost out on hourly. So this change plus the tourny changes will make it pretty much impossible to miss hourly kp. (for me anyway) Also this gives inno what they want.. more rewards, but a way to slow players from advancing through the tech tree faster.

At first i was kind of annoyed, because i like powering through the tech tree.. and i havn't been tech-locked very much.. but it does seem that this gives more incentive to keep those +kp set buildings plus makes the ToS worth more to me to advance it.

 

[DeletedUser]

• the Monastery/sanctuary gives your troops a very good boost, and is considered by many the best military wonder

• the Needles lets you exceed the training speed limit of your barracks and increases the damage of light ranged units

I have both in my main city, and man do they come in handy.

 

[SoggyShorts]

I was expecting this update today...

 

[Mykan]

Someone on another server was checking the game files and said the wonders are only using 20KP and 5KP instants so it gets a bit easier to figure it out. This seems consistent with the graphic that Jackluyt posted.

@HJK84 Have a look at my guide under wonders for a description of different types of programs for levelling wonders. Different people like different styles but for me as an individual there are 2 clear standouts for getting the most advancement - either self-levelling or spreadsheet assisted. These are the approaches that let you use all your kp consistently and ensure you level a wonder for less than its cost (highest return on investment).

 

[DeletedUser6189]

I like the change to KP Instants .........

HOWEVER ..... now I can't tell how much KP is being paid out for each reward level because all they show is a meaningless little symbol. Can't we get a number attached to that or something?!

I realize it's a silly complaint, but now I can't figure out which AWs of my neighbors it makes sense to try and give extra KP to and how much it makes sense to give.

 

[SoggyShorts]

@Balderdinger
Blue= 5KP
Purple=20KP

Imo they should all just be 5 KP.

 

[DeletedUser6189]

@Balderdinger
Blue= 5KP
Purple=20KP

Imo they should all just be 5 KP.

Ooh, I don't like that ... I live for the extra bonuses. Only 5KP per AW when I helped someone pick up 400+ points for their wonder .... nah, I want more.

I'm cool with 5KP and 20KP (though that seems like a big range ... what happened to 10KP?).

 

[Mykan]

I'm cool with 5KP and 20KP (though that seems like a big range ... what happened to 10KP?).

I think it keeps it simple rather than having lots of different instants. Also unsure if 10kp shares the same colour as 5kp but they need to avoid instants of different values with the same colour in the rewards or change how it displays. At least with 2 types it is easy to remember and the 20kp let them handle the larger rewards in an easy fashion.

 

[SoggyShorts]

Ooh, I don't like that ... I live for the extra bonuses. Only 5KP per AW when I helped someone pick up 400+ points for their wonder .... nah, I want more.
I'm cool with 5KP and 20KP (though that seems like a big range ... what happened to 10KP?).

I think you misunderstand me. 20 KP is just as necessary as 10 KP. They already give 2x5KP instead of 10 KP, so why not 4x5KP instead of 20 KP?

Same goes for all FS tournament rewards. Having 3,5,7,10,15,20,30 doesn't add anything to the game other than occasional awkwardness when you need 27 KP to finish a wonder but only have a 30 KP instant for example.
The color scheme isn't helpful at all either. Green, blue, blue that means something else, orange, orange that means something else, purple and purple that means something else? WHY?

So make em all 5 KP and give out a number of them equal to current rewards.