Chapter 1-5 Adjustments

[Maeryn]

It doesnt come mucht later.

The chapters are much more condensed, which means you fly trough the first few chapters.

the new chaptter 5 is finished in about the time it took you to chapter 3

On the old tech tree, I could start a city the day before or the day of a event starting and be in chapter 3 before it ends. Not anywhere close to being done with chapter 5 at the moment, I have to choose rather not I do the spire, tournaments or complete research due low amount of goods. Oh, and also I have to change my play style too since the new tech tree doesn’t allow for negotiating much once everything is unlocked.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

On the old tech tree, I could start a city the day before or the day of a event starting and be in chapter 3 before it ends. Not anywhere close to being done with chapter 5 at the moment, I have to choose rather not I do the spire, tournaments or complete research due low amount of goods. Oh, and also I have to change my play style too since the new tech tree doesn’t allow for negotiating much once everything is unlocked.

​	Old​	New​
Chapter I​	146​	209​
Chapter III​	760​	276​
Chapter III​	1170​	594​
Chapter IV​	1199​	720​
Chapter V​	​	1020​
​	3275​	2819​

So it takes a bit longer than former chapter III but shorter than old chapter IV.

 

[Maeryn]

​	Old​	New​
Chapter I​	146​	209​
Chapter III​	760​	276​
Chapter III​	1170​	594​
Chapter IV​	1199​	720​
Chapter V​	​	1020​
​	3275​	2819​

So it takes a bit longer than former chapter III but shorter than old chapter IV.

By your calculations, I should already be in chapter 6 I’m not.

 

[samidodamage]

By your calculations, I should already be in chapter 6 I’m not.

I don't think he was trying to say you should be there. I think he is reporting his tracking of his city under the old structure and his city under the new structure.
As a relatively new forum poster, you may not have seen the history with CrazyWizard. He has been around for well over 5 years. In the early game days he provided a very informative site about the game with info on everything from tourneys to events. The site remains available though he stopped updating it when he felt that other sites like Gems were doing as good or better a job and he could use his time elsewhere. Much of the info remains accurate, and a look at that site will demonstrate his diligent data collection/analysis skills. He has continued with his interest in game mechanics and is a very active beta player. He has started up new test cities when there were major in-game changes that changed city progression to collect and report data on actual differences as opposed to the anecdotal differences that are reported by many players but never really tracked. He's one of the players whose posts I seek out when trying to get a grasp on what's actually changing for game mechanics modifications because of his insightful analysis of the data.

 

[Maeryn]

This isn’t my first city and I have been responding to the statement made by crazy that said “the new chaptter 5 is finished in about the time it took you to chapter 3 before” essentially he is saying if you go at the same pace as you would to reach 3 on the old tech tree you should be done with chapter 5. That’s about a month or less of time.

 

[Enevhar Aldarion]

This isn’t my first city and I have been responding to the statement made by crazy that said “the new chaptter 5 is finished in about the time it took you to chapter 3 before” essentially he is saying if you go at the same pace as you would to reach 3 on the old tech tree you should be done with chapter 5. That’s about a month or less of time.

The Beta city I started to test all the new research made it from start of chapter 1 to the Spire research in chapter 5 in about 5 or 6 weeks, which is about how long it would have taken me with the old research to finish chapter 3, so time to finish chapter 3 or 5 is not the same, but fairly close. But I also need to note that the new city had the advantage of winning useful stuff, especially a lot of KP, from the past two events and from the last FA, to make up for the lost rewards of tournament and Spire being delayed to later chapters. I made sure to not be so focused on just building the city and doing the research that events got ignored. This city started Lucky Little Fin while in chapter 5 and finished in chapter 6 and I got a score of 323, which was better than what I got in my chapter 17 Beta city.

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

What a lot of people (veterans) do not understand is that many of us started in a game with less things to do and gradually learned to use more and more.

New players in the old game got everything at once, it's like learning how to juggle with 13 balls at once instead of gradually more and more balls starting with only 2.

For example: a new game starts with 100 swordfighters/barbarians 100 Archers/xbowwmen and 100 treants/paladins.
These are ment for you to kickstart your game on the world map. learn and mistake and not imediately destroy your game if you make a mistake.

But if tournaments/spire are released at the same time, and you try them at those places you can throw them all away before you even started.
As a brand new newbie you need to learn and you need to learn fast. and such mistakes can ruin your game.

By introducing features 1 by 1 you avoid mistakes and you also release new features to learn 1 by 1.
Would some people like myself if I started this game today as a newbe be benefitted from having it all at once? sure but I am not a majority of players. I am someone who asks, who digs into the wiki at day one, and read the forums 5 minuteds after starting a game.

How many newbies would do that?
This is all about player retention, this is not about anyone of us who are here on the forums.

Inno stated before that 50% of the lifetime revenue is created in the first 6 months, so player retention is absolutely key for them.
Speeding up the basic 5 starting chapters and making sure new players arent overwhelmed therefore is key.

Would we do much better if we start a new game today under the old starting system? Probebely yes!
Would new players with no experience do much better under the new system and stick longer? Most likely yes as well.

Who are more important? well I tell you I once stopped developing a game when the portal where we got new players from got bankrupt.
Without new players your game is dying and without a future there is no fun in development.
retaining new players is therefore vital for the games future.

Also it's not just the chapters there is also a rework of the quests.
This is actually the second time they did a rework for player retention and the first rework (quests) did wonders for player retention. there is a reason they do it again.

 

[StarLoad]

What a lot of people (veterans) do not understand is that many of us started in a game with less things to do and gradually learned to use more and more.
...

By introducing features 1 by 1 you avoid mistakes and you also release new features to learn 1 by 1.
Would some people like myself if I started this game today as a newbe be benefitted from having it all at once? sure but I am not a majority of players. I am someone who asks, who digs into the wiki at day one, and read the forums 5 minuteds after starting a game.
...
This is all about player retention, this is not about anyone of us who are here on the forums.

Inno stated before that 50% of the lifetime revenue is created in the first 6 months, so player retention is absolutely key for them.
Speeding up the basic 5 starting chapters and making sure new players arent overwhelmed therefore is key.

...

Also it's not just the chapters there is also a rework of the quests.
This is actually the second time they did a rework for player retention and the first rework (quests) did wonders for player retention. there is a reason they do it again.

Well said.

 

[Deleted User - 849994935]

This thread is to discuss changes in chapters 1-5 specifically the new tech tree for those chapters.

Yes, I no. Not everyone giving advice has a city built under the new system.

 

[Deleted User - 849994935]

What a lot of people (veterans) do not understand is that many of us started in a game with less things to do and gradually learned to use more and more.

New players in the old game got everything at once, it's like learning how to juggle with 13 balls at once instead of gradually more and more balls starting with only 2.

For example: a new game starts with 100 swordfighters/barbarians 100 Archers/xbowwmen and 100 treants/paladins.
These are ment for you to kickstart your game on the world map. learn and mistake and not imediately destroy your game if you make a mistake.

But if tournaments/spire are released at the same time, and you try them at those places you can throw them all away before you even started.
As a brand new newbie you need to learn and you need to learn fast. and such mistakes can ruin your game.

By introducing features 1 by 1 you avoid mistakes and you also release new features to learn 1 by 1.
Would some people like myself if I started this game today as a newbe be benefitted from having it all at once? sure but I am not a majority of players. I am someone who asks, who digs into the wiki at day one, and read the forums 5 minuteds after starting a game.

How many newbies would do that?
This is all about player retention, this is not about anyone of us who are here on the forums.

Inno stated before that 50% of the lifetime revenue is created in the first 6 months, so player retention is absolutely key for them.
Speeding up the basic 5 starting chapters and making sure new players arent overwhelmed therefore is key.

Would we do much better if we start a new game today under the old starting system? Probebely yes!
Would new players with no experience do much better under the new system and stick longer? Most likely yes as well.

Who are more important? well I tell you I once stopped developing a game when the portal where we got new players from got bankrupt.
Without new players your game is dying and without a future there is no fun in development.
retaining new players is therefore vital for the games future.

Also it's not just the chapters there is also a rework of the quests.
This is actually the second time they did a rework for player retention and the first rework (quests) did wonders for player retention. there is a reason they do it again.

I'd like to see sum evidence of improved player retention. Given, as u said, Inno makes most of its $$ in the first 6 months it seems to me Inno is really only interested in retaining players for 6 months.

Also, new cities only get 50 troops. Not 100.

Im NT gonna respond to the rest as its a cut & paste message and you've never built a city under the new system so although I have plenty of respect for ur skill & knowledge as a senior player I don't hold ur knowledge on this topic in the same esteem

 

[StarLoad]

...

Im NT gonna respond to the rest as its a cut & paste message and you've never built a city under the new system so although I have plenty of respect for ur skill & knowledge as a senior player I don't hold ur knowledge on this topic in the same esteem

Wow, way to disregard people unless they prove they have a new city with the new tech tree? Cause they cant have any useful knowledge, can they?

Ed

 

[Deleted User - 849994935]

Im NT gonna respond to the rest as its a cut & paste message and you've never built a city under the new system so although I have plenty of respect for ur skill & knowledge as a senior player I don't hold ur knowledge on this topic in the same esteem

Wow, way to disregard people unless they prove they have a new city with the new tech tree? Cause they cant have any useful knowledge, can they?

Ed

I bolded the part u may have missed.

Typically, I don't take advice about kids from peeps who don't have experience raising kids in this era, I don't take advice on fixing my car if they've only fixed older pre-electronic cars. Their knowledge and skill may be invaluable to others but nt to me. It's not personal.

 

[Flashfyre]

I bolded the part u may have missed.

Typically, I don't take advice about kids from peeps who don't have experience raising kids in this era, I don't take advice on fixing my car if they've only fixed older pre-electronic cars. Their knowledge and skill may be invaluable to others but nt to me. It's not personal.

Might want to take your attitude down a notch or two, sunshine. For someone who seems to struggle with using basic spelling and grammar skills, you're not winning a lot of friends here.

 

[Deleted User - 849994935]

Might want to take your attitude down a notch or two, sunshine. For someone who seems to struggle with using basic spelling and grammar skills, you're not winning a lot of friends here.

Text often reads quite differently than intended and although I'm quite adept at using the Queen's English I'm more inclined to use relaxed text language when it suits.
If peeps find my tone off-putting then they prolly aren't ppl I'd want to be friends with anyway.
But ur welcome to take ur own advice, Sunshine

 

[Emberarto]

I've just started a new city under the new tech tree.

My issue with it is this: I can join a Fellowship early in chapter 2. But I can't participate in FAs until I unlock them - which takes time and resources. I can't help my Fellowship in tournaments until 4. I can't help with the Spire until 5.

What need does my Fellowship have of me, except to carry me along to that point?

 

[Deleted User - 1178646]

I've just started a new city under the new tech tree.

My issue with it is this: I can join a Fellowship early in chapter 2. But I can't participate in FAs until I unlock them - which takes time and resources. I can't help my Fellowship in tournaments until 4. I can't help with the Spire until 5.

What need does my Fellowship have of me, except to carry me along to that point?

friendship, advice, trades, fun?

To be fair even at level 5 you would be useless in my fellowship anyway.
When I started this game we did not have FA's Spire's and tournaments, yet we still got into a fellowships and we still had fun.

Just because something exists doesnt mean you need access to it. and it's not that a player with 6 expansions will be an amazing help in one of those parts anyway.

I'd like to see sum evidence of improved player retention. Given, as u said, Inno makes most of its $$ in the first 6 months it seems to me Inno is really only interested in retaining players for 6 months.

Also, new cities only get 50 troops. Not 100.

Im NT gonna respond to the rest as its a cut & paste message and you've never built a city under the new system so although I have plenty of respect for ur skill & knowledge as a senior player I don't hold ur knowledge on this topic in the same esteem

The evidence is that they are rolling it out. player retention is there bread and butter. if it was negative after testing they would revert it quicker than the speed of light.

We all benefit from player retention btw as some will become permant players we meet, enjoy and they keep the game alive so we can keep enjoying this game.

btw how do you think i got the numbers? by cut and paste? maybe because I started a new city and even with the best will I can never play as a newbie, because..... I am not a newbie. I'll be always tained with knowedge and foresight

 

[StarLoad]

I bolded the part u may have missed.

Typically, I don't take advice about kids from peeps who don't have experience raising kids in this era, I don't take advice on fixing my car if they've only fixed older pre-electronic cars. Their knowledge and skill may be invaluable to others but nt to me. It's not personal.

No, I didn't miss it at all, but I did dismiss it. Your attitude is amazing I will give you that. So if you have a Broken bone you only get help from a doctor that has also had that same broken bone?

If peeps find my tone off-putting then they prolly aren't ppl I'd want to be friends with anyway.

You seem to go out of your way with your "tone" Good luck here with that.

I'm more inclined to use relaxed text language when it suits.

And, I would assume it suits you here and that better communication isn't a priority to you?

Ed

 

[StarLoad]

I've just started a new city under the new tech tree.

My issue with it is this: I can join a Fellowship early in chapter 2. But I can't participate in FAs until I unlock them - which takes time and resources. I can't help my Fellowship in tournaments until 4. I can't help with the Spire until 5.

What need does my Fellowship have of me, except to carry me along to that point?

I understand that you feel you are not helping your FS, and in many ways, you can not, YET, but that will change. Also, realize that as this change rolls out every new player will be in the same boat and a good FS will help you as they can until you are able to start helping. That is a foundation
of a good FS going forward. My FS has a player like you and we are doing our best to support said player and keep them going forward.

Ed

 

[Maeryn]

But if tournaments/spire are released at the same time, and you try them at those places you can throw them all away before you even started.

Nothing really changed the new tech tree is just pushed back what occurred for players before in chapter 3 to chapter 5 it's a bit late to fix your city by then for you can do more than one thing a day.

 

[Deleted User - 849994935]

The evidence is that they are rolling it out. player retention is there bread and butter. if it was negative after testing they would revert it quicker than the speed of light.

I shud have been clearer. U said this is the second time Inno has reworked for player retention and that it was successful so they're doing it again. I'm just wondering how you know what their player retention numbers are.

Also, well done on building a new city to try out the new system. How are you finding your first few weeks?