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    Your Elvenar Team

Discussion Chapter 18 "Team Spirit" discussion

I am trying to make sense of the ascendant goods math. For me, it takes 11,300 T1 goods and 11,300 T6 Goods to produce 12,880 T7 goods. So when T7 goods decay - what do I get back? Do I break even? Do I lose out? are they the T1 & T6 goods I put in or do I get back T1 &T3 because the seeds in the T6s decay into T3?

If the decay is 1:1, it looks like a 14% profit if you just build and allow decay in the long term. Hardly worth it, but I like to understand the math.
 
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Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
I am trying to make sense of the ascendant goods math. For me, it takes 11,300 T1 goods and 11,300 T6 Goods to produce 12,880 T7 goods. So when T7 goods decay - what do I get back? Do I break even? Do I lose out? are they the T1 & T6 goods I put in or do I get back T1 &T3 because the seeds in the T6s decay into T3?
I don't know. Since entering chapter 18, I have not been awake at decay time to see what I get back. But if it is the same as sentient goods, the 10% probably decays back to the normal goods of the factory where you produce the ascended goods. And seeds and mana just poof when they decay. We get nothing back from them.
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
I am trying to make sense of the ascendant goods math. For me, it takes 11,300 T1 goods and 11,300 T6 Goods to produce 12,880 T7 goods. So when T7 goods decay - what do I get back? Do I break even? Do I lose out? are they the T1 & T6 goods I put in or do I get back T1 &T3 because the seeds in the T6s decay into T3?

If the decay is 1:1, it looks like a 14% profit if you just build and allow decay in the long term. Hardly worth it, but I like to understand the math.
How does it cost you T6 goods?

 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
So...what's going to happen in the next chapter? The research tree for this one seems a little hard to follow. Every manufactory gets an upgrade here, but aside from the T1/T4 manufactories, they all seem to be optional since they only like to an AW tech at the end. AW techs placed like this have never been required to advance to the next chapter. What's going to happen with Chapter 19? Are the AW techs going to be required in order to reach it? Otherwise, I forsee being able to upgrade manufactories in the next chapter without unlocking the levels in this one first...
 

Kekune

Well-Known Member
they all seem to be optional
Optional or not, I suspect a lot of folks will do them anyway. It's really, really tough to keep them straight mentally when they're not all in the same layout. (When they bump to 6 production options, the orientation flips. So in my upgraded t1/4/7 factories, all the 3-hr productions run across the top. In factories I haven't upgraded, the 3-hr productions are on the left. So the standard 3-hr button is in the same place every time, but nothing else is.) I'm making more mistakes with setting the right type of goods, and even when I get it right it's slowed me down. I'll upgrade just to simplify setting them all.
 

mikeledo

Well-Known Member
I will be building (2) t-8 buildings between chapters and placing them in queue. Seems like the intuitively obvious thing to do. Also, make more portal instants.
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
Optional or not, I suspect a lot of folks will do them anyway. It's really, really tough to keep them straight mentally when they're not all in the same layout. (When they bump to 6 production options, the orientation flips. So in my upgraded t1/4/7 factories, all the 3-hr productions run across the top. In factories I haven't upgraded, the 3-hr productions are on the left. So the standard 3-hr button is in the same place every time, but nothing else is.) I'm making more mistakes with setting the right type of goods, and even when I get it right it's slowed me down. I'll upgrade just to simplify setting them all.
Oh, I'm sure many players are still going to take them. But that doesn't change them seeming to be optional, since they don't link to anything that's required to finish the chapter. That's why I'm wondering how they'll address it!
 

Kekune

Well-Known Member
@qaccy ahhh I think I'm following now.

Maybe they'll add in a tech in future chapters that allows you to actually produce the next tier of ascended goods. You would, of course, need the leveled factories to actually achieve that production. So that would, in effect, make the upgrade techs here "mandatory" even if you can technically move into ch19 without completing them.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
Oh, I'm sure many players are still going to take them. But that doesn't change them seeming to be optional, since they don't link to anything that's required to finish the chapter. That's why I'm wondering how they'll address it!
If you don't do them, you can't level up those factories to make those ascended goods in chapters 19 and 20, so optional or not, you still need them.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
If they are no longer mandatory(even though you need them) were they linked in this manner to reduce the chapters net CAL gain from "mandatory" tech?
I don't think so. Mandatory only means you have to research it to unlock another tech. Only techs that do not have a line going to the right are counted as optional.
 

ekarat

Well-Known Member
So...what's going to happen in the next chapter? The research tree for this one seems a little hard to follow. Every manufactory gets an upgrade here, but aside from the T1/T4 manufactories, they all seem to be optional since they only like to an AW tech at the end. AW techs placed like this have never been required to advance to the next chapter. What's going to happen with Chapter 19? Are the AW techs going to be required in order to reach it? Otherwise, I forsee being able to upgrade manufactories in the next chapter without unlocking the levels in this one first...
It seemed to me that this was a mistake and that they switched the requirements of the techs around in the last column. If they did, everything would make sense.
 

Pheryll

Well-Known Member
The last technologies for this chapter have odd prerequisites. The mercenary camp upgrade requires only two of the technologies from the previous column. This means that all the T2 and T3 upgrade technologies can be skipped as well as the final main hall, residence, and workshop technologies along with a culture technology. On the other hand, a wonder technology requires all four techs of the previous column. If the next chapter only requires the mercenary camp tech as a prerequisite, then there may be issues with some players taking upgrade technologies for buildings that they skipped the prior chapter.
@Xelenia and @helya, could you verify if this is a bug?
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
If you don't do them, you can't level up those factories to make those ascended goods in chapters 19 and 20, so optional or not, you still need them.
That still creates even more confusion though, doesn't it? Previously, it's always been the case that research unlocking building upgrades has been required not just to unlock further research, but also to complete the chapter and move on to the next one. Building upgrades have never been able to be skipped before, to my knowledge. I'm sure many of us remember when Inno was adding things to the tech tree in earlier chapters and making it mandatory, locking the tree down for players who'd already passed that point until they went back and completed those researches. This seems a lot like that, if there ends up being players who actually did skip these researches because they saw them as optional, but have to go back and complete them later anyway because they end up still being required to reach higher building levels (which will likely be mandatory).
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Well-Known Member
That still creates even more confusion though, doesn't it? Previously, it's always been the case that research unlocking building upgrades has been required not just to unlock further research, but also to complete the chapter and move on to the next one. Building upgrades have never been able to be skipped before, to my knowledge. I'm sure many of us remember when Inno was adding things to the tech tree in earlier chapters and making it mandatory, locking the tree down for players who'd already passed that point until they went back and completed those researches. This seems a lot like that, if there ends up being players who actually did skip these researches because they saw them as optional, but have to go back and complete them later anyway because they end up still being required to reach higher building levels (which will likely be mandatory).
Well, they obviously have something weird planned for the next couple of chapters, when it comes to the factory research. In case people did not notice, the research in chapter 18 added just 1 level to each factory, instead of the usual 2 or 4 per research. So unless they are capping factory levels at 32, that should mean there will be more research for each factory in chapter 19, to add another level to each, and maybe chapter 20 research will add two more levels to each, to give us the normal 4 new factory levels every three chapters.
 

T6583

Well-Known Member
I don't think so. Mandatory only means you have to research it to unlock another tech. Only techs that do not have a line going to the right are counted as optional.
All 3 of the last row of techs might be needed for unlocking Chapter 19. We've seen that before in past chapters where researching the AW's wasn't optional. Though not since they've split them.
 

Pheryll

Well-Known Member
Anyone know if the Blooming Trader Guild has any effect on portal production for this chapter? Has anyone been able to produce 2 badges in one slot?
 

T6583

Well-Known Member
Anyone know if the Blooming Trader Guild has any effect on portal production for this chapter? Has anyone been able to produce 2 badges in one slot?
Mine is at level 16 and I have not seen any increase from 1 in the portal. But I have noticed an increase from the elemental buildings for the other guest race goods.
 

qaccy

Well-Known Member
Anyone know if the Blooming Trader Guild has any effect on portal production for this chapter? Has anyone been able to produce 2 badges in one slot?
I dunno if it can be ruled out that the production can be increased, but it's currently impossible to do so. Even if the game rounded it off, the BTG can't get a high enough bonus to turn that 1 into a 2.