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    Your Elvenar Team

Discussion Chapter 19: Revenge of the Exile - discussion

iamthouth

Tetris Master
An update, 3 weeks later.

I mentioned Unurium, but immediately after my needs became Seeds, Seeds, Seeds, for the first third of the chapter. I added 11 Botanikums and commenced levelling my Sunset Towers (which needs to be lvl 12 or higher to be better than a Festival Merchant per tile per hour). It is currently lvl 7. The seed requirements stem from all the sentient goods I needed for research, and also the remaining upgrades I hadn't had space to upgrade in Chapter 18.

I finished the Fortress or Revenge research on the 07/06 (10 days into the chapter), but I purposely didn't build it then, as lvl 1 does nothing, it has no production. I focussed on completing other research that can be done without Settlement goods. I then finished building the portal yesterday, and built my first couple of Towers of Light. To get space I removed many mana producing buildings. I also needed more population to finish the manufactory upgrades and have enough for the future main hall, workshop and manufactory upgrades. I removed my Crab Hotels (Ch16 at 510 per tile) and put back in more lvl 42 residences (613 per tile) and other higher population per tile buildings won from events.

Elvenarchitect city layout today. The last lvl 18 magic residence will move west tomorrow, and I have left space to upgrade the final gems and two final crystal manufactories. I will then expand the breeding facilities east. I will also need to remove some festival merchants and move it all a few tiles west to fit the final breeding facilities to meet the quest (42) that requires 10 of them. I do have sufficient portal profits (3760%) for all the white and black magic I need, so may just choose to have less than 10 Towers except for the quest.
image_2022-06-18_140737284.pngimage_2022-06-18_142127997.png

Production per day of resources:
28,800 Orcs
679,900 Mana (but was per previous post until two days ago)
206,504 Seeds
106,111 Unurium

Silk manufactory is lvl 33, and has commenced producing Ancient Refined Goods. One seems enough. I am on quest 19.
Vortex of Storage is lvl 23, Blooming Trader lvl 28. I do also have Timewarp lvl 31, which together with Vortex of Storage is helping with efficient sentient production.

I feel like I have been progressing quickly, but could come to a halt soon, as ascended production mentioned by others seems to take time to clear in the trader. I now also have the sense that I should increase Unurium production if I can find space. You can see I am fairly efficient on roads, at 259 tiles and 7.56%.

I have been using some longer time boosts to speed up some of the building upgrades recently, to commence them before reset etc, but saving up short time boosters for later in the chapter. I have 694 hours worth of boosters saved up.
 

iamthouth

Tetris Master
A post only a week later. I was too hasty with deleting Mana producers, I should have kept them a bit longer. Mana is needed in great quantities up front to build the breeding facilities and warpaths.

I now have an excess of Seeds suddenly, as other buildings have reached their max or need more research. It is also helped by my high boosts in sentient producers, so I didn't need to produce sentient goods for several days.
I am using seeds to start production in the breeding facilities I have, to save the mana to construct the buildings.

I'm on the edge whether a second ascended refined producer is needed. Most in my fellowship have one, some have two. But trading of ascended goods is slow at times. Unurium has been fine with just the trader production (and I need one more rune to be able to build the Temple of Spirits).

It is important to upgrade some Towers to lvl 2 straight away, to keep a balance between White and Black Magic to not reach a cap if also using portal profits.

I have completed all research I can before needing settlement goods. The first one needs 20,000 Creatures of the Light. You make them in 6 hr batches of 56 each (Breeding Facility lvl 1), meaning it would take 20,000/56*6hrs/24=89 days just for the first research. Thus, it is critical to be able to build multiple breeding facilities (and upgrading them to lvl 2) straight away, to reduce that time. This is where I made a mistake removing mana producers too early.

I have also been preparing for chapter 20, in building and upgrading a S9 manufactory (Dust for me). I am using the population I have available now, will then teleport it out when hitting the max lvl 33, thus freeing up population to later upgrade Main Hall lvl 43 and the marble, steel and planks to lvl 33 per the quests.
 

Enevhar Aldarion

Oh Wise One
@iamthouth If case you have not looked ahead at quests for the chapters, there will eventually be one that requires 10 Breeding Facilities at level 4. I also found this to be pretty much the minimum for getting through the chapter in a reasonable amount of time. These also grow in size as you level them up, unlike guest race production buildings in previous chapters, so plan your space wisely.
 

iamthouth

Tetris Master
@iamthouth If case you have not looked ahead at quests for the chapters, there will eventually be one that requires 10 Breeding Facilities at level 4. I also found this to be pretty much the minimum for getting through the chapter in a reasonable amount of time. These also grow in size as you level them up, unlike guest race production buildings in previous chapters, so plan your space wisely.
Yes, I have (I'm using IDavis's list), and that reminds me, I found that you could have 10 lvl 4 breeding facilities with only 9 warpaths (below), which is the most efficient layout possible, but that assumes no towers. There is however a quest that requires 10 warpaths. There is also a quest that requires both 10 towers and 10 breeding facilities at the same time (but thankfully not lvl 4 breeding facilities), but these do not need to be connected, only in the city at the same time.
iamCh19_10BF_9Warpaths.jpg
 

Socrates28

Well-Known Member
I agree with you about RL and know that the evil ruler does not win but is destroyed by the very power he sought. Evil does not win in the end.
Also, this chapter is a real slog. I was not happy with how the game mechanics forced me to play it.
 

iamthouth

Tetris Master
Now 7 weeks into the chapter, I can see this will be the longest chapter so far, mostly due to the very slow settlement production.

Today I finished the Fortress of Revenge research upgrade, and immediately upgraded my Fortress to Lvl 2. I need to save more Ascended basic goods and sell a few more Towers of Darkness before I can upgrade to lvl 3 as well.

Next research to get to upgrade the Breeding facilities below.
image_2022-07-16_104610442.png

I corrected my Mana mistake by adding 9 Aqueducts (46.3 mana per tile per hour). Unfortunately I had earlier removed Human Ships (90.3 mana per tile per hour) but at least I have upgraded 10 breeding facilities to lvl 2 now, so mana is accumulating again for the lvl 3 and 4 breeding facilities upgrades (needs 19.7mill).

I had decided early on to use portal profits for this chapter, which is proving smart. To upgrade the Fortress of Revenge you need to sell Towers of Light and Darkness, and each last 1 week before expiring. If I were to wait until each expired, this chapter would balloon in time spent and space needed. I have 4215% in portal profits which is enough for the whole chapter.

Lately I've been building and deleting towers as soon as my ascended goods (and orcs) allowed, to accumulate the black matter needed for the Fortress of Revenge upgrades. With my 10 warpath and 10 breeding facility layout, there is only room for 3 towers, per my layout below. I aim to complete all the towers before I need to upgrade the breeding facilities to lvl 3 (5x6) and lvl 4 (6x6). City layout below.
Ch19_16072022.jpg

I am also consistently hitting the top of the spire, which is helping with accumulating time boosts. Particularly the 5hr boosts are helpful to reduce 6 hour breeding facility production down to one hour each to speed up the chapter. Without time boosts my calculation is another 106 days, but will reduce that as breeding facilities upgrade and I use time boosts. I have 1190 hrs worth now in the inventory.

I am on quest 41. Blooming Trader is lvl 31 now, and Vortex of Storage lvl 24. Seed, mana and unurium production is sufficient. I have been boosting the ascended production, but trading it takes time still. I occasionally have to wait for Orcs production, but generally ok.

Production per day
28,800 Orcs
980,100 Mana
145,958 Seeds
106,111 Unurium
 

iamthouth

Tetris Master
@Enevhar Aldarion I haven't built the ETC, nor have I built the Temple of Spirits (I can build it now though, got all runes filled).

The ETC needs to be lvl 17 to be better than Festival Merchants for seed production, but may be more worth it for the MM boost. I may build it in the future. It is not so much the production of ascended goods that is the issue, more the trading, as you mentioned previously. I have 3 merchants at present.

I still have the Temple of Spirits as one of my potential future wonders, but haven't needed it yet. That may change now that I need to produce Ultimate Creatures, but by my calculations current production will be fine. To make the 34,900 Ultimate Creatures needed for the research, I need 530,873 Unurium, and I make 106K per day in the Trader, so should be fine.
 

Zorlog

New Member
I have figured out how to put out the 10 + 10 for quest #42 but I'm hoping someone knows whether towers and breeding facilities can be stored. I'm thinking breeding facilities should be fire since they are like any other guest race buildings. My concern is the towers since they expire.
yes,,, Thankfully the spire is giving away lots of teleports,, I'm well on my way to my goal of having 100 teleports,, :)
 

iamthouth

Tetris Master
Now 10 weeks into the chapter, still making progress, but middle part of the chapter slowed down considerably.

I will complete Optimally Prepared Main Hall research later today. I am on quest 59 (Unlock Optimally Prepared Workshops + Unlock Optimally Prepared Main Hall). I have a lvl 32 steel manufactory in my inventory, which I need to put back in the city for quest 65.
image_2022-08-07_103614774.png

I have suffered from my Mana mistake, in that it is taking longer to upgrade the breeding facilities. Nearly there now. Elvenarchitect layout. I have removed some more seed buildings as my Sunset Towers increase, and put in more mana buildings. I made sure I built and sold all the Tower of Light and Darkness early on, and I'm now using portal profits for White and Black magic. This allows me to minimise the Warpaths to only 10, per quest 32, saving lots of Mana from other potential layouts. I've left space to upgrade the final five to lvl 4.
Ch19_070822.jpg

Before this latest event started, I did build the Temple of Spirits too, to gain more Unurium. That will help me upgrade the Refined Precious Standard and Sentient buildings to lvl 33 as they require 170K each, and Main Hall upgrade requires 260K, all while you also use unurium in the breeding facilities. I also upgraded my Flower Goblin Epiphany from ch 17 (seeds) to 18 (unurium) and will upgrade to ch 19 once I collect enough Royal Restorations.
I will be aiming for Day 17 in this quest giving out Lunar Factories as the daily prize, which has a great Mana per tile per hour output, as that will help me in the back end of the chapter.

I am using time boosts for my lvl 4 breeding facilities to boost settlement production. Most of the time my Fortress of Revenge sits empty, as I can quickly make the needed Ultimate Creatures needed for a research.

Other resources are ok, I can make enough sentient goods, seeds and unurium to keep production going. I have been holding back on catering tournament provinces that required mana though, so a little bit lower in tournament score lately. Still going to the top of the spire.

Production per day
36,000 Orcs
1,089,133 Mana
103,258 Seeds
130,023 Unurium

Estimate on chapter completion is now 6 to 7 weeks.
 
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iamthouth

Tetris Master
Now 13 weeks into the chapter, progress is moving, but still feels slow, due to settlement production. That is even with BTG lvl 31.

5 more mandatory research tech to do, plus one of the wonders for the quest (though I'm likely to do both, as they are good ones). I will likely do the Squad Size upgrade too as I wait for the settlement production to accumulate.
Ch19_Research_28-08-2022.jpg

I have finished all 10 breeding facilities to lvl 4. I see some people have built more than 10, which would help if you can afford the space, but will also need more Warpaths to connect them. When I become tech locked I level up the ancient wonders. I have left space to upgrade my Ascended Planks Mfg, just accumulating the mana for it, and will do tomorrow. In my city layout up the top I had a lvl 33 Ascended Dust Mfg, which I have levelled ready for Ch20.
Ch19_CityLayout28-08-2022.jpg

I was lucky in the recent event and won a lot of Unurium, so recently I swapped my Superior Trader from producing Unurium to Seeds for a while. I also targeted the best Mana production daily reward Lunar Factory (145 per tile per hour), and got 15 of those (although they are small at 2x3), so my Mana is flowing again. Production levels have been fine with the below.
Production per day:
36,000 Orcs
1,249,883 Mana
235,573 Seeds
31,180 Unurium

I am on quest 67 now. Ch19 will take another estimated 4 weeks still. I am using time boosts to speed up settlement production, trying to reset late evening so I can collect four times a day on the 6 hr productions, and using the night hours effectively. Gold Spire is providing time boosts, and I have used Sips of Clarity to refresh the Magic Academy for more time boosts.

I'm looking forward to Ch20 now, and have been accumulating Blueprints to upgrade all my Magic buildings as soon as I reach it. I also re-started scouting after stopping at 600 provinces, to get enough for the Ch20 quest requiring 630 completed provinces.
 
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phatjac

New Member
For me, this is all a sad turn of events. Inno already ignores the fact that this game attracts a whole second group of people who are non-fighters, which is quite noticible in the events. We used to have options in every situation to choose 'non-fighty' chests/boxes; the main Event Buildings that produce fighters make the event a bit pointless for us; the wonderful new 'Sorceries' tab holds only fighting options, etc etc. It seemed more balanced in previous years.

The description of this new chapter is horrifying to me ~ I personally do not enjoy war, fighting, conflict, killing and all that. It is fine that they are doubling down on this aspect - it is their game to make as they wish, obviously - but I will likely be quitting Elvenar if it continues in this way.

I was first attracted to the beautiful artwork, the clever cuteness of the whole set up, and the 'mathy' part of figuring the game out. I am an avowed Spire addict and have no self-control when doing tourney (lol). I enjoy very much the interdependence of the Fellowship set up, the trader, and all the clever intertwining that creates comraderie between all of us in the game.

There is a lot to love here, so it does sadden me that Inno has not opened up to the idea that the concept of World War can be equally balanced by the vision of World Peace.
It's a game. Make believe wars and fighting. No one is being harmed, no blood shed. [MOD EDIT] Removed comment
 
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iamthouth

Tetris Master
So another 6 weeks later, I am still not done. I have been away on holidays, so not playing as actively as before, but settlement resource production is just so slow. I had underestimated it because I hadn't factored in that the making of Creatures of the Light and Night cannot be concurrent. I wish I had built more than the 10 breeding facilities, I have seen some players with 12 and 14.

Settlement resources needed for the final two research pieces still, including the upgrading of the Fortress of Revenge to lvl 4 so I can sell it to earn the Ultimate Matter needed for the final research.
Ch19Research091022.jpg

City layout is largely unchanged, but I did upgrade the Planks manufactory which changed shape.
Ch19Layout091022.jpg

I am on quest 77 now.

I am accumulating resources for Ch20, so have a good amount of Orcs, Mana, Seeds and Unurium built up.

Maybe two more weeks before I am done?
 
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iamthouth

Tetris Master
Done! Finally. From start 28/05 to today 26/10, so took just shy of five months. Longest one yet by far.
Second last research took 20 days!
Working my way through the final quests now, I'm on 85 of 89.

So lessons are: keep close control of changing resource needs, first seeds, then mana. Use teleports to change buildings if need be. I did it right in getting all the Tower of Light and Dark out of the way early, and if possible, have more than 10 breeding facilities to help production. Use portal profits for White and Black Magic, and time boosters are a good help.

I'll be moving through Ch20 and posting on that thread now, but you can reply here and put @iamthouth in the text to reach me with any questions, happy to answer them.
 

The Fairy

Scroll-Keeper, Buddy Fan Club Member
I have started chapter 19, and overdid my preparation for this chapter, so if anyone can use my notes then you can find them here:


Note that I have only just started the chapter, so I may change my plan when I actually play the chapter... If anyone has any suggestions for changes please let me know!
 
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